How can loot even work without warforging/similar systems?

[TheLucky1]

This is a thing im worried about since quite some time now, we know so far there will not be a warforging or similar system in SL.

However, how do they keep the incentive for mythic+ and raids once you got most of your important stuff up?

Love or hate it, the introduction of thunderforging in mop and the advancing of that system was a necessary evil because otherwise a lot of players would have been "done" and quit way too fast, creating problems not only for the devs but also raiding guilds.

Im not here to discuss wf/tf or if there could have been a better solution (dead horse), but how you guys think they'll handle it in SL, i can't imagine they'd just let it be like right now -20% drop chance on everything and call it a day.

M+ needs a longterm incentive.
First few bosses in a raid need a longterm incentive.
Casual, non-instanced content needs a longterm incentive.

I really don't want to go to the wod days and before where realisticaly im only motivated to do that one boss at some point because it's the only upgrade i could still get..

[Justpassing]

You get your BiS for the tier -> you quit till next 0.X

People asked for this.

[Ssateneth]

Less loot drops now. Problem solved. It's not fun or exciting to see a +5 ilvl item drop when you already have that same version.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Ya, sadly the answer is "not well."
My bigger concern is if they are going to tune the game with this in mind.
Right now, these extra powers for no additional effort have a serious impact on the difficulty of the game.

Now that you wont be able to potentially out gear the content without having been able to clear it again, will they go back to the less tightly tuned raids we saw in WoD prior?

[Polarthief]

I mean, it seemed to work just fine for multiple expansions (in fact, the majority of them) prior to TF/CF being a thing. You really don't need the endless treadmill of never hitting "true" BiS to keep people playing. If the game is good and the content comes out quick enough, you'll keep playing. The problems in the past was some content "lasted" 9-12+ months so you had way too much time to get the best gear. If content lasts shorter (like 4-5 months), most people won't hit that. The super-top .001% players (world first racers) won't stop til they have literally nothing left to work on for their entire team and all their alts. The vast majority of the rest of us, even the rest of the Mythic/CE players, probably wouldn't even get it in time. As for anyone not even getting CE/very high M+ levels (like past 20), they won't even get their BiS ever so they always will have something to work on.

[MrLachyG]

Did you watch the interview with Ion about loot? He basically said that they made more loot drop during the days of WF/TF so we will be seeing less drops in SL which means hitting your best in slot gear will take a similar amount of time. As for m+ that will stay the same, scaling with the difficulty of the dungeon

[Niroshi]

I really don't want to go to the wod days and before where realisticaly im only motivated to do that one boss at some point because it's the only upgrade i could still get..

This has been BFA for its entire lifespan though.

It may be different in the Mythic raid tier, but at Heroic and below M+ completely invalidates your raid gearing outside of an overpowered trinket or two per tier. M+ is just generally easier, near impossible to fail and pays out hard for what little commitment it requires.

Anyhow the game functioned just fine for near a decade before TF ever came in. It isn't needed at all, and its inclusion cost us the ability to just be done with a patch.

[Craaazyyy]

it worked fine in vanilla, tbc, wotlk, cata and half of mop

[melzas]

I've been wondering the same thing and honestly I don't know what are the upsides of removing WF/corruption. Less drops is a solution? I'm so looking forward to go weeks without weapon upgrade at all...

[Omedon]

Honestly, I see the issues so long as I squint real hard to see it through the lens of playing only one character (as I have 30+ 120s), but I legitimately think that Shadowlands will intentionally and quite extremely be the furthest the game has swung toward a rule that's been quietly building in the background since BFA wound down and "shadowlands prep" builds up.

That rule is "you should have alts by now."

It's whispered in the intent of so many aspects of shadowlands. The four covenant stories, the potential conservative doling out of torghast attempts, and the loot situation all point toward the trend that, with the exception of BFA's strange interlude of alt-unfriendliness (beyond "you should have one of each faction"), WoW has built further and further away from supporting/encouraging the single-character player.

Strictly on topic, I do think we are intended to switch to one of the "at least three alts we're supposed to have" once we relatively quickly gear up from even a slightly less generous "let loot be loot" paradigm. Just like switching alts is how we see another story, or get more torghast attempts.

I'm serious, I do not think Shadowlands is intended for the single character player. That's my observation: they are assuming we're bringing the alt army.

[Ludvig]

The game was way more popular before any of this lottery crap, so apparently it can work excellently.

[Drusin]

You get your BiS for the tier -> you quit till next 0.X

People asked for this.

Get BiS roll mobs and enjoy being powerful you mean

[Ozyorkbourne]

Wait they're removing it?

Hell yeah, might resub and play the expansion then.

[Niwes]

OP act like mythic+ has no item level drops dependent on keys. i see no blizzard statement that this should change.

its good to get this crap out of the way. as others mentioned wow has worked fine until WoD without that shit.

you go to a defined content type with a defined skill height. for raids this is lfr, normal, hc and mythic. for dungeons this is normal, hc, mythic, and +X (drop item level depending on X). and you get the loot item level you expect for that skill level.

so, whats the problem ?

you get out all BiS on Heroic Raid Tier X ? Fine. You have the following options:

- Go next skill level (mythic)
- Go dungeons and do high enough m+ keys
- Unsub until next Tier
- Play the game, by doing PvP, Alts, Pet Battles, Farming, Achievements, Quests, Collections and Completionist, Farm mounts out of old raids, help guildies, get rich in wow or whatever. WoW is a big and great game. Its waiting to be used.

These are more than enough options.

Its good that they get rid of that nonsense.

[cparle87]

Honestly, I see the issues so long as I squint real hard to see it through the lens of playing only one character (as I have 30+ 120s), but I legitimately think that Shadowlands will intentionally and quite extremely be the furthest the game has swung toward a rule that's been quietly building in the background since BFA wound down and "shadowlands prep" builds up.

That rule is "you should have alts by now."

It's whispered in the intent of so many aspects of shadowlands. The four covenant stories, the potential conservative doling out of torghast attempts, and the loot situation all point toward the trend that, with the exception of BFA's strange interlude of alt-unfriendliness (beyond "you should have one of each faction"), WoW has built further and further away from supporting/encouraging the single-character player.

Strictly on topic, I do think we are intended to switch to one of the "at least three alts we're supposed to have" once we relatively quickly gear up from even a slightly less generous "let loot be loot" paradigm. Just like switching alts is how we see another story, or get more torghast attempts.

I'm serious, I do not think Shadowlands is intended for the single character player. That's my observation: they are assuming we're bringing the alt army.

"You should have alts by now"?

I think you're about 4 years too late on that. They were screaming that from the rooftops back during Legion. What with entire interweaving storylines locked behind having one of every class. Something is done in the priest class that enables the Legion to do something bad the paladin class has to fix, which is referenced to in the rogue class. A weapon is found in the warrior class that lets the Legion do something that has to be stopped in the priest class. You don't find out the truth about the Broken Shore unless you do the rogue class. Etc etc.

- - - Updated - - -

The game was way more popular before any of this lottery crap, so apparently it can work excellently.

Yup, back to the days of whining that you never have anything good in most of your slots cause the valor vendor only has gear for 3 slots and of course those are the ones you already have raid gear in. Or whining that there's no BiS legs for your spec this tier cause nothing has your two best stats. Also, daily reminder, correlation does not equal causations.

[Omedon]

"You should have alts by now"?

I think you're about 4 years too late on that. They were screaming that from the rooftops back during Legion. What with entire interweaving storylines locked behind having one of every class. Something is done in the priest class that enables the Legion to do something bad the paladin class has to fix, which is referenced to in the rogue class. A weapon is found in the warrior class that lets the Legion do something that has to be stopped in the priest class. You don't find out the truth about the Broken Shore unless you do the rogue class. Etc etc.

Oh I don't deny that it's been building for a long time, but I feel it needs to get stressed again as we move from the cumbersome and alt-unfriendly systems of prime BFA toward an expansion bringing it back front and center in more ways than just story access. A LOT of Shadowlands seems built around this assumption, this "rule."

[Contesto]

removing warforged gear will help to streamline the gearing process and focus on one difficulty. i dont see the fun when progressing in heroic or mythic difficult and have to clear one below because there is a chance to get a item as or even more powerful as in the higher difficulty. As an altoholic it will also give me more time for other chars. Next step would be to remove the rewards from world quests that make normal raiding difficulty obsolete. got all of my chars in BFA to almost heroic raiding equip with outdoor content and worldbosses. Kinda removes the MM of the MMORPG and feels like a single player game.

[Drusin]

Less drops is a solution?

The less drops thing they are doing is shit but when people complain I'll just say "Tell Blizz to put drops back to where they were ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"

I'm so looking forward to go weeks without weapon upgrade at all...

That can happen with either system lol

[Eazy]

You get your BiS for the tier -> you quit till next 0.X

People asked for this.

That's a false.

For some people? Maybe. For most of the players? Doubt it.

I'm so looking forward to go weeks without weapon upgrade at all...

Yeah, that that didn't happen in BFA already.

[kaminaris]

Im really skeptical about it.

If droprates are low, people will eventually burn out entirely of game, nobody got time and desire to farm the same boss/dungeon over and over again hoping for that one piece to drop.

If droprates are medium, people will gear up fast enough and stop playing. I mean, this is a problem in non-tf world where you don't want to see instance X until next major patch limiting amount of content you can do to get any upgrade.

So at the beginning you will narrow down dungeons to 4-6 that gives you your bis. Then you will slowly eliminate dungeons to 1-2 and run only 2 dungeons for entire time.