Potential Class Hype

[Shiza]

Again, Blizzard combined the entire Undead faction into the DK class. I don't know why you feel the need to be obtuse about this.

Because it still was something not present in WoW Classic. They could easily focus a spec on Sylvanas banshee form and her chain abilities, one spec on summon minions (which would creat a situation where we have a caster, a melee and a physical ranged minion spec) and maybe a heal spec based on banshee songs, considering that there is this whole voice and song aspect to them and WoW needing a new heal after the last new class not having one. Which would also creat a niche for a dark themed healer, which is something woW still lacks.

[quote]Nope. There's always the possibility of an Undermine expansion. Undermine was planned as a continent in WoW Alpha.

There is also always the possibility of Ion publicly commiting seppuku to regain his honor after BfA at the next Blizzcon. Which sounds more likely than creating an entire expansion just focussed on one of the least popular races.

Polls appear to be only worthless to you when they don't work in your favor. I remember one such poll where you were going to "rub my face" with the results until they started trending out of your favor.

Because I still don't like you and there seems to be something wrong with you to the point where you are unable to self-reflect after I actually told you what makes me antagonistic towards you and your ideas about a Tinker class and where your behavior puts off others. Still, is there actually something wrong in you that you can't see how a poll with a 4% minority making up 30% of participants not being representative and therefore being worthless? Like, serious, is there some condition I have to be considerate about? I mean, I also could make a poll on one of my leftist discord channels which shows that Bernie Sanders had a 100% approval rating.

[Teriz]

Because it still was something not present in WoW Classic.

Why would it need to be present in Classic?

There is also always the possibility of Ion publicly commiting seppuku to regain his honor after BfA at the next Blizzcon. Which sounds more likely than creating an entire expansion just focussed on one of the least popular races.

So in your mind, the head developer of WoW is as likely to commit suicide as Blizzard is in implementing a continent they had planned in the early stages of WoW?

Okay.....

Because I still don't like you and there seems to be something wrong with you..

I think you should read your own posts before you claim that other posters have "something wrong with them".

[Shiza]

Why would it need to be present in Classic?

You are argueing about that current npcs of lore races not playable dictate how they would look like once they are playable.

So in your mind, the head developer of WoW is as likely to commit suicide as Blizzard is in implementing a continent they had planned in the early stages of WoW?

Okay.....

Yeah. I actually think he would rather commit suicide than explaining to his investors why he is basing an entire Wow Expansion to a race which only panders to one of the smallest minorities of the fanbase. I mean, I could see Undermine as side content to a bigger content patch, like Mechagon, but as its own expansion it sounds really unlikely.

I think you should read your own posts before you claim that other posters have "something wrong with them".

I mean, you are the person who had a mental breakdown and some form of delusional period because a poll stated that your personal complexes about height and having a below average height in a video game don't seem to be a majority opinion, to the point where you somehow constructed a whole new poll in your head that you treated as a fact while everybody was asking themselves what is up with you. Remember the poll where someone asked why they don't play gnomes? Where the lack of a thematically fitting class was the least picked option and you somehow made it up in your mind that this option doesn't exists and that their visuals actually means the lack of a Tinker class and you accidentally revealing that you can't play gnomes or goblins because you have some deep rooted complexes about height to the point where you need to have a mech that is taller than any playable race to play a Goblin?

But yeah, do you have any indication that doesn't also state that Gnomes and Goblins are actually more popular than Blood Elves which is a delusional position to have that indicates that either Blizzards staff or the community would rather have the fantasy of playing a Gnome Hero who was just introduced in Legion rather than Sylvanas?

[Zech y]

Really want a necromancer. Imagine reviving players in pvp

[ashblond]

Another mail-wearer is long overdue.

change DH to wear mail, then we will have 3 x cloth/leather/mail/plate

Done.

[Teriz]

Really want a necromancer. Imagine reviving players in pvp

DKs can already do that.

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change DH to wear mail, then we will have 3 x cloth/leather/mail/plate

Done.

We could use a technology class for Gnomes, Goblins, and Mechgnomes. Possibly LF Draenei, Dwarves, and Nightborne as well.

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You are argueing about that current npcs of lore races not playable dictate how they would look like once they are playable.

Nope. I'm using the fact that all the expansion classes have extensively used WC3 as the foundation for those classes, and applying those same rules to the Tinker, which has the same pedigree as those previous expansion classes.

Yeah. I actually think he would rather commit suicide than explaining to his investors why he is basing an entire Wow Expansion to a race which only panders to one of the smallest minorities of the fanbase. I mean, I could see Undermine as side content to a bigger content patch, like Mechagon, but as its own expansion it sounds really unlikely.

You're basing that on current population levels, not taking into account the popularity of the Tinker class concept, and the fact that Goblins, Gnomes, and Mechagnomes really have no class that fits their racial lore.

I mean, you are the person who had a mental breakdown and some form of delusional period because a poll stated that your personal complexes about height and having a below average height in a video game don't seem to be a majority opinion, to the point where you somehow constructed a whole new poll in your head that you treated as a fact while everybody was asking themselves what is up with you. Remember the poll where someone asked why they don't play gnomes? Where the lack of a thematically fitting class was the least picked option and you somehow made it up in your mind that this option doesn't exists and that their visuals actually means the lack of a Tinker class and you accidentally revealing that you can't play gnomes or goblins because you have some deep rooted complexes about height to the point where you need to have a mech that is taller than any playable race to play a Goblin?

Yeah, you're a bit confused. I said I don't play as Gnomes or Goblins because none of the classes fit their racial lore. Again, playing a Mage in an irradiated factory full or robots, or a Warrior with a broad sword in a city with cars and highways is off putting and throws you out of immersion.

The OTHER side of the argument was that Goblins and Gnomes inside mechs fixes the majority of problems people had with those races in that poll. We should also remember that the MAJORITY of respondents said that the like Goblins and Gnomes.

But yeah, do you have any indication that doesn't also state that Gnomes and Goblins are actually more popular than Blood Elves which is a delusional position to have that indicates that either Blizzards staff or the community would rather have the fantasy of playing a Gnome Hero who was just introduced in Legion rather than Sylvanas?

Feel free to link me to any comment where I ever said that Gnomes and Goblins are actually more popular than Blood Elves. Also we've had polls where Dark Rangers go up against Tinkers, and like all class concepts, they lose (badly) to the latter.

[Greengrim]

Didn't Blizz already confirm there will be no new class?

[Teriz]

Didn't Blizz already confirm there will be no new class?

When was that?

[Shiza]

Nope. I'm using the fact that all the expansion classes have extensively used WC3 as the foundation for those classes, and applying those same rules to the Tinker, which has the same pedigree as those previous expansion classes.

Expansion classes mostly base one spec on the WC3 hero and do new stuff for the other two specs. Even DK was just losely themed after broad scourge tropes like vampirism and frost outside of unholy, but the WC3 DK is the unholy DK. The WC3 Brewmaster is the Brewmaster Spec, the other two specs are based on rather new wuxia inspired Pandaria tropes like eastern martial arts and mist. With DH, both specs are basically identical, but the classical demon hunter in terms of aesthetics, references to Illidan and even their weaponry would be found in Havoc, with Vengeance having a new demon form, feeling heavier and more soul eating based and most importantly, by default not using a typical warglaive as their weapon during the expansion they were introduced in.

You're basing that on current population levels, not taking into account the popularity of the Tinker class concept, and the fact that Goblins, Gnomes, and Mechagnomes really have no class that fits their racial lore.

Both a class tailored to them and an expansion did shit for Pandaren, why should it work for Gnomes and Goblins? Whats your argument? And again, when 30% of participants in a different tinker related poll say they are already playing a gnome or goblin, how does this not discredit this polls, as the data conflicts with greater sized census project directly coming from the game itself? Explain this to me. And you should finally decide whether polls matter or not. Either MMO-C polls don't matter to you or they do. In the later case, you have to admit that only a minority even give a fuck about classes fitting their racial lore. Looking at census data for Monks, it supports this idea, considering that the majority of Monks are not Pandaren.

Yeah, you're a bit confused. I said I don't play as Gnomes or Goblins because none of the classes fit their racial lore. Again, playing a Mage in an irradiated factory full or robots, or a Warrior with a broad sword in a city with cars and highways is off putting and throws you out of immersion.

The OTHER side of the argument was that Goblins and Gnomes inside mechs fixes the majority of problems people had with those races in that poll. We should also remember that the MAJORITY of respondents said that the like Goblins and Gnomes.

Calling you out on your complexes concerning height is deliciously mean but not confused. You hammered home this point over and over again. And it doesn't changes the fact than when people hate Goblins and Gnomes already outside of the mech, why wouldn't they just plain chose a different race which looks good in and outside of the mech if they have the choice? Your entire argument surrounding race-restricting Tinkers is basically the same as the no-flying crowd as well as this guy who wants heirlooms removed, its you being weak willed and wanting to force that on others, because we all know you won't play a Goblin Tinker if you have all the different options. You are constantly on height and height alone when it comes to Goblins and Gnomes, even ignoring that at least with female Gnomes, them being small is actually a selling point as it makes them into more of a cute race option.

Feel free to link me to any comment where I ever said that Gnomes and Goblins are actually more popular than Blood Elves. Also we've had polls where Dark Rangers go up against Tinkers, and like all class concepts, they lose (badly) to the latter.

Your entire argument is based around nobody playing Gnomes and Goblins because they don't have a racially fitting class, combined with the delusion that race restricting tinkers would work just as good as doing it with the elf-based Demon Hunters.

Looking at the character census data as well as the fact that Sylvanas is a by far more iconic character makes it more likely that the community would be more eager to play a race based on a hero who gets 2.680.000 hits on google than a hero who has 113.000 hits. It shows, barely anyone cares about Gazlowe, people care about Sylvanas though.

[Teriz]

Expansion classes mostly base one spec on the WC3 hero and do new stuff for the other two specs. Even DK was just losely themed after broad scourge tropes like vampirism and frost outside of unholy, but the WC3 DK is the unholy DK. The WC3 Brewmaster is the Brewmaster Spec, the other two specs are based on rather new wuxia inspired Pandaria tropes like eastern martial arts and mist. With DH, both specs are basically identical, but the classical demon hunter in terms of aesthetics, references to Illidan and even their weaponry would be found in Havoc, with Vengeance having a new demon form, feeling heavier and more soul eating based and most importantly, by default not using a typical warglaive as their weapon during the expansion they were introduced in.

The difference being that the ultimate ability of DKs and DHs are available to all specs. In this case, the Tinker's ultimate ability to a mech that they can toggle in and out of out will just like Druid forms. That alongside Mekkatorque, Blackfuse, Gallywix, Noggenfogger, Razdunk, Razak, and Gazlowe all piloting mechs, indicates that mech piloting will be a major aspect of a Tinker class.

Both a class tailored to them and an expansion did shit for Pandaren, why should it work for Gnomes and Goblins? Whats your argument? And again, when 30% of participants in a different tinker related poll say they are already playing a gnome or goblin, how does this not discredit this polls, as the data conflicts with greater sized census project directly coming from the game itself? Explain this to me. And you should finally decide whether polls matter or not. Either MMO-C polls don't matter to you or they do. In the later case, you have to admit that only a minority even give a fuck about classes fitting their racial lore. Looking at census data for Monks, it supports this idea, considering that the majority of Monks are not Pandaren.

Actually the majority of Monks ARE Pandaren.

Calling you out on your complexes concerning height is deliciously mean but not confused. You hammered home this point over and over again. And it doesn't changes the fact than when people hate Goblins and Gnomes already outside of the mech, why wouldn't they just plain chose a different race which looks good in and outside of the mech if they have the choice? Your entire argument surrounding race-restricting Tinkers is basically the same as the no-flying crowd as well as this guy who wants heirlooms removed, its you being weak willed and wanting to force that on others, because we all know you won't play a Goblin Tinker if you have all the different options. You are constantly on height and height alone when it comes to Goblins and Gnomes, even ignoring that at least with female Gnomes, them being small is actually a selling point as it makes them into more of a cute race option.

I don't think many people genuinely HATE Gnomes and Goblins. They just find it difficult to choose an appropriate class that fits their characteristics. Additionally, when the race's setting doesn't match the available classes, it causes immersion issues.

Your entire argument is based around nobody playing Gnomes and Goblins because they don't have a racially fitting class, combined with the delusion that race restricting tinkers would work just as good as doing it with the elf-based Demon Hunters.

Based on all the available data, it would be.

Looking at the character census data as well as the fact that Sylvanas is a by far more iconic character makes it more likely that the community would be more eager to play a race based on a hero who gets 2.680.000 hits on google than a hero who has 113.000 hits. It shows, barely anyone cares about Gazlowe, people care about Sylvanas though.

That isn't what the polls say. The other issue is that based on lore, Sylvanas can't create Dark Rangers like herself, which restricts the class to a variation of the Hunter class.

[Shiza]

The difference being that the ultimate ability of DKs and DHs are available to all specs. In this case, the Tinker's ultimate ability to a mech that they can toggle in and out of out will just like Druid forms. That alongside Mekkatorque, Blackfuse, Gallywix, Noggenfogger, Razdunk, Razak, and Gazlowe all piloting mechs, indicates that mech piloting will be a major aspect of a Tinker class.

Yeah, but if it isn't just a CD, it would be a rather permanent ability, while with DKs and DHs, we are talking about cooldowns. So I think it would be likely that they would just make on spec about Mechs, especially since I could imagine that when they have a new ranged class, they would like to have at least some specs where you can see the character. I mean, a fully Mech based Tinker class would end up being just a melee and likely using Melee weapons, just as Mekkatorque for example wields a hammer and a shield.

Actually the majority of Monks ARE Pandaren.

Actually, nope. For example on WoWcensus, monks make up combined 25% of the class population, making them the single most played Monk class, but 75% of all monks are of one of the other races. Which really makes the concept of race restricting Tinkers problematic, considering how Goblins and Gnomes combined are just marginally more popular than Pandaren are.

I don't think many people genuinely HATE Gnomes and Goblins. They just find it difficult to choose an appropriate class that fits their characteristics. Additionally, when the race's setting doesn't match the available classes, it causes immersion issues.

This is what you think, which you can't back off. If you want to hear my opinion, I think those races are pretty hated because they are basically just jokes and rather silly, which many people dislike. You still lack any data to proof that the lack of a class instead of how they look, their height, how they sound and their overall lore as the joke races puts people off. Gnomes and Goblins are just made to be naturally at the buttom of the popularity charts, because people in fantasy MMOs tend to prefer the prettier races first and then go after cool looking or rather cute races, with more silly gimmicky and especially smaller races often being at the buttom of popularity lists.

Based on all the available data, it would be.

Which data? An inofficial forum with at best a hundred people participating in a game with millions of players while the same data also indicate that Gnomes and Goblins should be among the most popular races in the game with making up combined 30% of the playerbase when in the actual game their combined number seems to be 4% These polls are just not representative.

That isn't what the polls say. The other issue is that based on lore, Sylvanas can't create Dark Rangers like herself, which restricts the class to a variation of the Hunter class.

And originally, all death Knights were former Paladins who turned to the Lich King for eternal life.

[Varodoc]

Playable tinkers are fine, but I'd rather not have to play as an ugly, comic-relief race like gnome or goblin.

[Teriz]

Yeah, but if it isn't just a CD, it would be a rather permanent ability, while with DKs and DHs, we are talking about cooldowns. So I think it would be likely that they would just make on spec about Mechs, especially since I could imagine that when they have a new ranged class, they would like to have at least some specs where you can see the character. I mean, a fully Mech based Tinker class would end up being just a melee and likely using Melee weapons, just as Mekkatorque for example wields a hammer and a shield.

You mean like how Shaman ended up being a fully ranged class because the Farseer, Witchdoctor, Shadow Hunter, and Orc Shaman were all ranged?

Also I doubt that the mech would be confined to one spec. Robo Goblin is the only ability to appear in both Tinker heroes, and riding a mech appears pretty standard practice among the Gnomes and Goblins.

Actually, nope. For example on WoWcensus, monks make up combined 25% of the class population, making them the single most played Monk class, but 75% of all monks are of one of the other races. Which really makes the concept of race restricting Tinkers problematic, considering how Goblins and Gnomes combined are just marginally more popular than Pandaren are.

Well yeah, that's what I meant. There's more Pandaren Monks than any other single race of Monk out there. I don't think that the Monk situation really has anything to do with the Tinker situation to be quite honest.

Which data? An inofficial forum with at best a hundred people participating in a game with millions of players while the same data also indicate that Gnomes and Goblins should be among the most popular races in the game with making up combined 30% of the playerbase when in the actual game their combined number seems to be 4% These polls are just not representative.

Hey, it's still data. That data btw is far more valuable than your personal opinion.

And originally, all death Knights were former Paladins who turned to the Lich King for eternal life.

Yeah, but nothing in lore stopped the Lich King from raising non-paladins and granting them powers, since he had done it multiple times to multiple characters.

The lore itself restricts Sylvanas from making Dark Rangers like herself. Also, given that Shadowlands would have been the ideal time to introduce Dark Rangers, and the reality that she's probably toast after this expansion, the chances of a Dark Ranger class go with her, this is really a moot discussion.

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Playable tinkers are fine, but I'd rather not have to play as an ugly, comic-relief race like gnome or goblin.

What if they're inside a mech?

[Shiza]

You mean like how Shaman ended up being a fully ranged class because the Farseer, Witchdoctor, Shadow Hunter, and Orc Shaman were all ranged?

Also I doubt that the mech would be confined to one spec. Robo Goblin is the only ability to appear in both Tinker heroes, and riding a mech appears pretty standard practice among the Gnomes and Goblins.

Yeah, but the Mech seems to be predominantly melee in nature, so a Tinker would in this case likely not be physical ranged utilizing ranged weapons, but either a melee or in a dps spec likely more like a caster, utilizing rockets and energy projectiles on this mech, not using his gun.

Well yeah, that's what I meant. There's more Pandaren Monks than any other single race of Monk out there. I don't think that the Monk situation really has anything to do with the Tinker situation to be quite honest.

It is actually quite similar, as both are based on some of the least popular and more silly races in the game, with Monk having the benefit of being playable by every popular race, which Tinker according to you shouldn't have. Looking at how Monks would rather something different but a Pandaren, I can't imagine a Tinker class being race restricted being constructive in any shape or form. Monks reception at least was already lukewarm during release, despite being playable by everything but Goblins and Worgen.

Hey, it's still data. That data btw is far more valuable than your personal opinion.

The Data proofs that the polls are not representative. Like, how old are you? Are you still in school? You know how polls work, right?

Yeah, but nothing in lore stopped the Lich King from raising non-paladins and granting them powers, since he had done it multiple times to multiple characters.

The lore itself restricts Sylvanas from making Dark Rangers like herself. Also, given that Shadowlands would have been the ideal time to introduce Dark Rangers, and the reality that she's probably toast after this expansion, the chances of a Dark Ranger class go with her, this is really a moot discussion.

We are talking about Blizzard. They don't care for the lore, but they certainly love Sylvanas and Dark Rangers. Do you think they would really believe that a class based on one of their most popular characters would be beaten in actual popularity than a class based on their least popular races and characters nobody even knows?

[Teriz]

Yeah, but the Mech seems to be predominantly melee in nature, so a Tinker would in this case likely not be physical ranged utilizing ranged weapons, but either a melee or in a dps spec likely more like a caster, utilizing rockets and energy projectiles on this mech, not using his gun.

Mekkatorque's mech switches from Claws to Guns rather easily. Also there's been multiple mechs with gun-based limbs. One concept that I could see happening is that the mech is melee at 5 yds, and once it exceeds 5 yds, the auto attack switches to ranged. Much like how Hunters used to be.

It is actually quite similar, as both are based on some of the least popular and more silly races in the game, with Monk having the benefit of being playable by every popular race, which Tinker according to you shouldn't have. Looking at how Monks would rather something different but a Pandaren, I can't imagine a Tinker class being race restricted being constructive in any shape or form. Monks reception at least was already lukewarm during release, despite being playable by everything but Goblins and Worgen.

They're not similar though. Monks weren't much different than other melee classes. The Tinker would be VERY different than other existing classes.

The Data proofs that the polls are not representative. Like, how old are you? Are you still in school? You know how polls work, right?

I didn't say they were representative, I said that they ARE data, and more valuable than your personal opinion.

We are talking about Blizzard. They don't care for the lore, but they certainly love Sylvanas and Dark Rangers. Do you think they would really believe that a class based on one of their most popular characters would be beaten in actual popularity than a class based on their least popular races and characters nobody even knows?

Now you're speaking for Blizzard? Neat.

[Greengrim]

When was that?

Well they didn't announce it on Blizzcon like they've always done so far. We livin' on a prayers now?

[Teriz]

Well they didn't announce it on Blizzcon like they've always done so far. We livin' on a prayers now?

From what I read, they didn't bring out a class at Blizzcon because no class fit the theme of Shadowlands. If anything, the lack of a class fitting Shadowlands means that dark, edgy concepts based on the undead like Dark Ranger and Necromancer are pretty much never happening. The Tinker, given that it doesn't have that theme is still on the table.

[pacotaco]

If anything, the lack of a class fitting Shadowlands means that dark, edgy concepts based on the undead like Dark Ranger and Necromancer are pretty much never happening.

I really doubt it. It's probably that they still don't have a good design for those classes.
It's what happened with DHs. They wanted to add them on Vanilla, and then on TBC, but they finally didn't because they had not the tech nor a design they liked.
Yet 15 years later, here they're.

[Humek]

Are finally WW monks able to wear staves or 2H weapons or not?! I would be REALLY dissapointed if they can't

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Are finally WW monks able to wear staves or 2H weapons or not?! I would be REALLY dissapointed if they can't

Why did you necro a thread on "New class potential" with a post about Monks?