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  1. #1

    Awakened and mythic +10 dungeons as a tank

    Hey guys

    I've returned to wow and have been playing for aboyt 1,5 months. I'm a tank and i almost solely run m+.

    I like it. I have most of the dungeons down by now. But i only run +7-+9 keys.

    I have 461 ilvl and could easily tank 10-12 keys, but i just cant be bothered learning the specific routes for dungeons from a video(the general concensus seems to be that tanks need to know them by heart, and not ask about them). I wouldnt mind learning them while doing it, but there is no low level version you can stroll through and learn this in. This is solely +10 and people have expectations from a tank.

    Now, its not really the same problem as learning the other affixes, because i can literally just read on them what they do, and by that know what i need to do. But thats not the case for this one. It brings a LOT of complexity for no real gain outside of MDI(as far as i see it).

    Am i completely alone in this? I really hate that affix

  2. #2
    Ya not alone, really boring to have to study how to play a game before playing it as well. Figuring things out yourself use to be a fun part of playing...

  3. #3
    The best thing is to get an addon called Method Dungeon Tools (MDT). You can open it up and plan routes in the dungeon and see what % you can get. With this you can take the knowledge from 2-9 that you have and then tweak it so you are closer to 100% rather than 120% that some dungeons have now.

    You can also take a look at Draknos' runs that he puts up on raider.io (or click the link) and see what he suggests. You can either run what he says if you want a drag and drop type run or adjust to how you want. There is no "right" answer in that it is the only way to do the run. You can adjust it however you want. I've ran multiple different ways and timed it each time. The only main ones from my experience is if you have a stealth/no stealth on the week the dog is up in Freehold as that can heavily adjust the run. Another factor is do you want to kill all the obelisks or have one up with a boss. The last one that I've found the best is always take the first obelisk in Waycrest to witches so you can lust at dungeon start and then again at the end.

  4. #4
    You can download Method Dungeon Tools and plan your run.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilyaki View Post
    Ya not alone, really boring to have to study how to play a game before playing it as well. Figuring things out yourself use to be a fun part of playing...
    You don't have to study anything. You can play the game however you want. If you choose to play the game with random people and you don't explain to them that you are learning and give them a chance to decide whether they want to put up with that or not, then of course you're going to have a bad time.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Now, its not really the same problem as learning the other affixes, because i can literally just read on them what they do, and by that know what i need to do. But thats not the case for this one. It brings a LOT of complexity for no real gain outside of MDI(as far as i see it).
    The Awakened affix is the best thing they've added all expansion. If you don't know the routes, watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN1IXXBcUe0. It's very rare that you will ever need to adjust the obelisk pathing on something as low as a 10 regardless of the affixes so just take a look at his suggestions for where to take the obelisks and then do those until you feel comfortable making up your own.

  6. #6
    I do have MDT but it does seem like a really daunting task for me to plan a dungeon run ahead like that. I'm not looking to do super serious dungeon runs at 20+. Just seems to me like this feature is way over the top in terms of complexity added for no real benefit. I get a lot of people like it. It just really, really turns me off

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Ladey Gags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    You don't have to study anything. You can play the game however you want. If you choose to play the game with random people and you don't explain to them that you are learning and give them a chance to decide whether they want to put up with that or not, then of course you're going to have a bad time.



    The Awakened affix is the best thing they've added all expansion. If you don't know the routes, watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN1IXXBcUe0. It's very rare that you will ever need to adjust the obelisk pathing on something as low as a 10 regardless of the affixes so just take a look at his suggestions for where to take the obelisks and then do those until you feel comfortable making up your own.
    Yeah no. The affix is horrible. Anything that requires not playing the game is a horrible horrible idea. Ugh tbh this affix has completely ruined M+ for me. It’s just tedious, unfun, poorly designed zoomer crap.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    You don't have to study anything. You can play the game however you want. If you choose to play the game with random people and you don't explain to them that you are learning and give them a chance to decide whether they want to put up with that or not, then of course you're going to have a bad time.



    The Awakened affix is the best thing they've added all expansion. If you don't know the routes, watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN1IXXBcUe0. It's very rare that you will ever need to adjust the obelisk pathing on something as low as a 10 regardless of the affixes so just take a look at his suggestions for where to take the obelisks and then do those until you feel comfortable making up your own.
    I understand that looking at videos and absorbing that knowledge is just something you dont mind doing. I learn in a different way though. I learn by doing. Thats the way i've learned all the dungeons and remembering all the dungeons basicly once more is something i just really dont want to do. Its taken me a decent amount of times to "catch up" with the general pug polutation already. Now it feels like i need to catch up again.

    If you choose to play the game with random people and you don't explain to them that you are learning and give them a chance to decide whether they want to put up with that or not, then of course you're going to have a bad time.
    I have purposely avoided this because the general pug groups can be quite toxic and i like to know what i'm doing when i tank stuff to avoid those situations falling on me.

    I dont understand what positive awakened have come up with for the casual m+ goers. Its a very steep learning curve in a very inforgiving enviroment
    Last edited by ClassicPeon; 2020-05-09 at 04:17 AM.

  9. #9
    I playing a lot of pugs as a tank, ppl literally want get tank and don't care about everything. So i suggest you take a Method tool and don't care about rest. ---> https://raider.io/news/90-the-weekly...ege-of-boralus <---- here you have routes, it's to SoB link but it's part of whole list and you have all routes there. You can look for groups with "weekly" note, most of them don't care about time just want weekly chest.

    Edit: On rider.io site you have to enter to news >weekly route to get actual affixes route in my link is old post.
    Last edited by dragi; 2020-05-09 at 04:40 AM.

  10. #10
    If you're not willing to put in a lil work to figure out its basically to the boss/next ob then don't be out there ruining peoples keys. Or play dps.
    Me thinks Chromie has a whole lot of splaining to do!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    Yeah no. The affix is horrible. Anything that requires not playing the game is a horrible horrible idea. Ugh tbh this affix has completely ruined M+ for me. It’s just tedious, unfun, poorly designed zoomer crap.
    This comment is so dumb that I cant tell if you are serious or forgot to throw a /s at the end. How does Awakened require not playing the game? What is tedious about killing less dungeon trash?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiffums View Post
    If you're not willing to put in a lil work to figure out its basically to the boss/next ob then don't be out there ruining peoples keys. Or play dps.
    You are literally the reason people are complaining there arent enough tanks.

    Not only are you toxic, but you literally misunderstand my commitment to this.

    I'm one of those who wont do a run as a tank when i'm not certain what to do. I've been very vocal about that in my posts here, and for you to then come out and act like i'm just lazy and i'm ruining peoples keys is literally just toxic mentality.

    You should take a look at what you bring to the world

  13. #13
    Pit Lord msdos's Avatar
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    You won't find sound answers here because not a lot of these people left and then came back to tank, I doubt they know what it's like. I came back to tank essentially, but it's too boring. I used to just run my own key and if someone leaves, immediately reform my own key. This is back when I actually pugged keys as a tank, which was like the beginning of BFA. That's probably your best bet for learning the portal crap; just boost your key up to 10, attempt it the way you see fit, then if it fails repeat.

    As far as the affix it's self. Yeah? So what? It's portals and a lame mini boss that had to be nerfed like 3 times because it was destroying tanks. Wow, very nice.
    So picture this: rogue pops shroud, then a random mini boss appears and the group kills it while moving with shroud. Oooooh, that is a crazy ass affix brother! So creative, so "fitting", now we don't need 3 Rogues bro! Bandaid on top of a bandaid on top of a bandaid.

  14. #14
    Agree with Fayolynn on questioning the opinion that awakened is horrible and ruins mythic+ by requiring not playing the game. It was clearly designed to not only skip trash but also allow flexibility in what trash you skip and groups not requiring a rogue anymore and achieves all this.

    Also to OP, having brought up 4 tanks to 465+ over the past 3 months and dealing with a lot of pugs for 10-15 keys I wonder how much time you've actually spent looking for 10-12 pugs. For those first few key levels with awakened if you just kill most of the pillars where they are and use 1 to skip a few packs you can beat the timer. Not to mention as you are just starting to get into the awakened affix pushing the key isn't necessarily required and you can just complete it as you learn the pillars and what to do with them. In pugging 10-12s I've never had a leader test me on the route and have even asked questions about optimum route and people are friendly or don't care about going the perfect path.

    I don't doubt that you have had some poor experiences, so just keep at it and try to move on from those ones once they are over. Good luck.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealMcCoy View Post
    Agree with Fayolynn on questioning the opinion that awakened is horrible and ruins mythic+ by requiring not playing the game. It was clearly designed to not only skip trash but also allow flexibility in what trash you skip and groups not requiring a rogue anymore and achieves all this.

    Also to OP, having brought up 4 tanks to 465+ over the past 3 months and dealing with a lot of pugs for 10-15 keys I wonder how much time you've actually spent looking for 10-12 pugs. For those first few key levels with awakened if you just kill most of the pillars where they are and use 1 to skip a few packs you can beat the timer. Not to mention as you are just starting to get into the awakened affix pushing the key isn't necessarily required and you can just complete it as you learn the pillars and what to do with them. In pugging 10-12s I've never had a leader test me on the route and have even asked questions about optimum route and people are friendly or don't care about going the perfect path.

    I don't doubt that you have had some poor experiences, so just keep at it and try to move on from those ones once they are over. Good luck.
    I havent had any poor experiences. I havent attempted any 10+´keys. As i wrote i'm not the sort of person who likes to go in to that sort of thing and fail. I know the dungeon game cane be toxic so i take precaustions to not let it fall on me. My problem is that i've spend a lot of time learning the dungeons on easier difficulties so i dont fuck it up for groups on harder difficulties. But i cant do this with awakened as its 10+ only and people in 10+ groups have expectations and, as we can see from Spiffums instantly jump on the toxic train.

  16. #16
    I was in similar position, returning to game about one month ago. I also never watch online videos on how to play the game, or watch other people play games altogether.

    Honestly, this late in the season most people seem to know the way already and they will tell you what to pull or what to skip, especially if they see you haven't done given dungeon on 10+. My very first +10 mother lode I ran (first awakened I did, without even understanding how it works at all, or reading anything about it) someone in the group quickly figured I had no idea and just kept telling me where to go, what to pull, etc,we ended up timing it on 2 chests easy.

    So I suggest not going higher than +10 while you are learning routes. I ran all dungeons on awakened as a tank now in time and in all those runs only once when I asked what to skip the group answered "you are the tank, we don't know" every other 11 runs someone just showed me (pull it here, skip these, run, los here, etc.).

    Once you learn the routes you can easily go higher with keys.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    I have 461 ilvl and could easily tank 10-12 keys, but i just cant be bothered learning the specific routes for dungeons from a video(the general concensus seems to be that tanks need to know them by heart, and not ask about them).
    The Awakened affix just adds 4 more mini-bosses in fixed locations of each dungeon. Each of these locations have an obelisk, and you pull the mini-boss by clicking on the obelisk. There's nothing else you really need to know. (Yes, you can kite each mini-boss somewhere to skip some trash, but you don't need to).

    That's all there is to this affix. The affix does not force you to use specific routes, and the affix is so simple I cannot think of what type of video would help you learn it. Just get into the key and try it yourself.

    Tanks don't need to know any routes by heart. If you do want to min-max, then each week will have a different optimal route anyway... Not much you can remember there. It forces you to think about what route you want to do each week from scratch (and that is true with-or-without the awakened affix).

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Now, its not really the same problem as learning the other affixes, because i can literally just read on them what they do, and by that know what i need to do. But thats not the case for this one. It brings a LOT of complexity for no real gain outside of MDI(as far as i see it).
    It is exactly the case for this one. If you wanted to be super safe, you can indeed go and read up on the abilities of these 4 mini-bosses (each of them has 1-2 abilities only). You don't have to, but sure you can.

    I'm not sure how MDI is relevant to this discussion, either. May be you watched MDI and saw that they choose to play the end boss with all 4 mini-bosses at once (for the time gain)? You will never do that on live. You will at most play a single mini-boss on top of the last boss, and that's only after you start playing keys above +15.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer
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    It's tiresome of an affix to deal with as a tank but way less irritating than Emissaries and wayyyy less fun than Season 2. Season 1 was just lame all round and neither hard nor fun.
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    I havent had any poor experiences. I havent attempted any 10+´keys. As i wrote i'm not the sort of person who likes to go in to that sort of thing and fail. I know the dungeon game cane be toxic so i take precaustions to not let it fall on me. My problem is that i've spend a lot of time learning the dungeons on easier difficulties so i dont fuck it up for groups on harder difficulties. But i cant do this with awakened as its 10+ only and people in 10+ groups have expectations and, as we can see from Spiffums instantly jump on the toxic train.
    I'm in a very similar situation to you - joined up due to coronavirus. M+ before +10 was all pretty simple, but then once I tried to do 10+ every group is a total mess.

    People tell me to just use Method Dungeon Tools to plan pulls, and I go to the page and it lists out like 27 pulls for one dungeon. There's no Fing way I'm going to sit there and memorize 27 different pulls.

    So basically, I do the best I can, and nearly every single key I'm in gets wasted. Some (many) times it is my fault, other times it is the dps or healer because they're encountering the +10 wall as well. I haven't completed a key over +10 in weeks. What's frustrating is, even using my own key, people are very impatient and will leave after one wipe, or after they realize you don't know the method approved super fast route.

    I was in one today and the dps admonished me "this isn't the place to try to learn mechanics" but the mechanic was something that was easily brute forced in lower difficulties so I never needed to learn it. There's no place to just try, fail and get better without burning a key. When I can I do them with a tank in my guild over discord and he walks me through it step by step, and then everything is fine and I know that dungeon for next week. But it's a very difficult learning curve.

    Meanwhile, on my healing offspec I barely have to know what's going on and I can do just fine.
    Last edited by Scrod; 2020-05-09 at 06:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    I don't really hate bfa, outside of the extreme rng and crap systems and garbage gameplay

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    The Awakened affix just adds 4 more mini-bosses in fixed locations of each dungeon. Each of these locations have an obelisk, and you pull the mini-boss by clicking on the obelisk. There's nothing else you really need to know. (Yes, you can kite each mini-boss somewhere to skip some trash, but you don't need to).

    That's all there is to this affix. The affix does not force you to use specific routes, and the affix is so simple I cannot think of what type of video would help you learn it. Just get into the key and try it yourself.

    Tanks don't need to know any routes by heart. If you do want to min-max, then each week will have a different optimal route anyway... Not much you can remember there. It forces you to think about what route you want to do each week from scratch (and that is true with-or-without the awakened affix).



    It is exactly the case for this one. If you wanted to be super safe, you can indeed go and read up on the abilities of these 4 mini-bosses (each of them has 1-2 abilities only). You don't have to, but sure you can.

    I'm not sure how MDI is relevant to this discussion, either. May be you watched MDI and saw that they choose to play the end boss with all 4 mini-bosses at once (for the time gain)? You will never do that on live. You will at most play a single mini-boss on top of the last boss, and that's only after you start playing keys above +15.
    But there is more to it. People expect the tank to not just press the obelisk and tank the dude. They expect the tank to know where to kite the dude, to skip the trash that he was put there to skip.

    Is there even a point in taking the obelisks if you take all the trash anyway?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I'm in a very similar situation to you - joined up due to coronavirus. M+ before +10 was all pretty simple, but then once I tried to do 10+ every group is a total mess.

    People tell me to just use Method Dungeon Tools to plan pulls, and I go to the page and it lists out like 27 pulls for one dungeon. There's no Fing way I'm going to sit there and memorize 27 different pulls.

    So basically, I do the best I can, and nearly every single key I'm in gets wasted. Some (many) times it is my fault, other times it is the dps or healer because they're encountering the +10 wall as well. I haven't completed a key over +10 in weeks. What's frustrating is, even using my own key, people are very impatient and will leave after one wipe, or after they realize you don't know the method approved super fast route.

    I was in one today and the dps admonished me "this isn't the place to try to learn mechanics" but the mechanic was something that was easily brute forced in lower difficulties so I never needed to learn it. There's no place to just try, fail and get better without burning a key. When I can I do them with a tank in my guild over discord and he walks me through it step by step, and then everything is fine and I know that dungeon for next week. But it's a very difficult learning curve.

    Meanwhile, on my healing offspec I barely have to know what's going on and I can do just fine.
    Yes. Thats exactly it. THe bolded part especially just sums it up for me.

    People say "just press, kill move on". Thats not what people epxect. Really, its not.

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