Awakened and mythic +10 dungeons as a tank

[Temp1on2]

I understand this and i am actually part of a great community. Sadly most of us basicly think bfa is shit and arent playing atm. They are returning for shadowlands though so i'm not super interested in finding a new one(i've been part of this one for 9 years now). My goals atm are basicly just to do all m+15, 5 mask visions and at least get the hc nyalotha achievement. Currently i have to do this as a pugger

Well, unfortunately it's going to be extremely unpleasant whilst you are 'learning'.

Like I said, m+ above +10 is intended to require coordination and you won't get that with 5 random players. In fact, as a tank in a PUG it is your job to provide what little coordination there is, so juggling that with figuring out something new isn't going to be enjoyable tbh.

[ClassicPeon]

I have, and you blame an affix because of your general inability to do your job as a tank.

It's not like a tanks job has been any different.
Know the route, know the dungeon in-and-out, do the pulls, stay alive, repeat.
You are the leader of the group, not a by-stander.
The moment the tank has to stop and think is the moment you realize the tank is shit.

It's a +10 for a reason. It's not casual play anymore.

I did raid Mythic, but what does it have to do with anything? Raid tanking is a joke compared to key pushing as far as personal skill and responsibility go.

It's kinda pathetic you try to bring in some imaginary "higher authority" argument inot a discussion when you have trouble doing simple +10's.
Plus you don't even play the game as I read somewhere.
So wassup?

Why are you so toxic?

My inability to do my job? I've literally not failed a single key this week. What inability are you talking about? My abstinence from 10+ BECAUSE i dont want to ruin it for other people?

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You are lazy! It takes like 10 mins TOPS to figure out how to do the skips. It's not rocket science.

Yeah thats a lie. You are toxic.

[Twdft]

After 4 pages of not wanting to learn the new affix I am now convinced the main reason for this thread was just to drop this nugget of wisdom:

Sadly most of us basicly think bfa is shit

[ClassicPeon]

After 4 pages of not wanting to learn the new affix I am now convinced the main reason for this thread was just to drop this nugget of wisdom:

Feel free to try and read some of the other posts where i clearly stated i'¨ve been reading up. Try harder

[Lucetia]

Yeah thats a lie. You are toxic.

Honestly they aren't wrong at all. It takes 1-2 minutes to go to raider.io and copy/paste the weekly route in-game. Then takes another ~3 minutes to see where the obelisks are taken to and what is skipped. Takes literally less than 10 minutes. It's not something that needs massive amounts of planning. Run the preset routes and as you experience the dungeon you know where and what to skip easier.

It essentially comes down to you not wanting to put in ~5 minutes to copy/paste a route, look at it and do the run. There is nothing complex to it or anything. In fact, the obelisk makes it easier.

[Tyrilion]

I do have MDT but it does seem like a really daunting task for me to plan a dungeon run ahead like that. I'm not looking to do super serious dungeon runs at 20+. Just seems to me like this feature is way over the top in terms of complexity added for no real benefit. I get a lot of people like it. It just really, really turns me off

the affix it self is so easy to learn, its more laziness if you cba to learn it, its a simple okay start this here kite to here kill... theres nothing complex about it.

[ClassicPeon]

Honestly they aren't wrong at all. It takes 1-2 minutes to go to raider.io and copy/paste the weekly route in-game. Then takes another ~3 minutes to see where the obelisks are taken to and what is skipped. Takes literally less than 10 minutes. It's not something that needs massive amounts of planning. Run the preset routes and as you experience the dungeon you know where and what to skip easier.

It essentially comes down to you not wanting to put in ~5 minutes to copy/paste a route, look at it and do the run. There is nothing complex to it or anything. In fact, the obelisk makes it easier.

yeah the weekly route and copying makes sense if you have a general knowledge about how its used to going. I dont think its good gameplay that i need to copy something from raider.io every week like that.

It seems like its the difference in mentality you guys have a hard time understanding

Its just really bad logic to say that it makes the run easier for someone new to it. That literally just makes 0 sense.

[Sixnalia]

The best thing is to get an addon called Method Dungeon Tools (MDT). You can open it up and plan routes in the dungeon and see what % you can get. With this you can take the knowledge from 2-9 that you have and then tweak it so you are closer to 100% rather than 120% that some dungeons have now.

Agreed with MDT.

Our guild uses it heavily to plan our routes for higher keys.
I also use it in my small circle of M+ runners.
We're able to share it and live-draw our thoughts on the map to reach a consensus.

It's a great way to plan out a run as a tank if you plan to pug it.

[Lucetia]

yeah the weekly route and copying makes sense if you have a general knowledge about how its used to going.

The only general knowledge you need is know the dungeon already, which you do from 0-9.

I dont think its good gameplay that i need to copy something from raider.io every week like that.

Except you don't have to do it every week. You can use the same route every week if you wanted. Just certain affixes will be easier if you change up the route. Just like 0-9.

It seems like its the difference in mentality you guys have a hard time understanding

No, the mentality is you don't want to put in ~5 minutes worth of work to learn a new affix. You are literally making this harder than it needs to be. Grab a route and use it every week if you want.

Its just really bad logic to say that it makes the run easier for someone new to it. That literally just makes 0 sense.

Except it literally does make the run easier. You are making it seem like it is a new affix that could blow you up in 1 shot if you don't do something. It's like using a Cloak of Shadows / Group Invis on Keys 0-9 except you have control of how you want to do it. It's like me telling you tyrannical or fortified is easy on lower keys. Does it impact your gameplay or make you change things? Nope, not really. Awakened is the same thing, except grants you the power to avoid nasty packs that you hated in lower keys. For example, you can skip the entire last pack in Mechagon: Workshop (ones that have a potential of wiping your group) and just go to the last boss and pretend they were never there.

Stop overthinking it. Grab a route. Look at it. Run it. After 1 run then figure out what questions you have. Right now you are trying to come up with 100 questions about an affix when there are none and any you have are easily answered by experiencing it once.

[Garymorilix]

Why are you so toxic?

My inability to do my job? I've literally not failed a single key this week. What inability are you talking about? My abstinence from 10+ BECAUSE i dont want to ruin it for other people?

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Yeah thats a lie. You are toxic.

Great, you haven't failed a single key this week. Congratz.

Now why is an ex-high end mythic raider complaining about a simple "drag-the-mob-here" affix in +10 keys then?

[Arawrabearialis]

Simple solution is don't pug. If you run keys with friends/guildies, you can talk things through as you do them and learn that way. Much more enjoyable than watching videos repeatedly or checking your map throughout the run to make sure you're following an add-on.

[Teflon]

Hey guys

I've returned to wow and have been playing for aboyt 1,5 months. I'm a tank and i almost solely run m+.

I like it. I have most of the dungeons down by now. But i only run +7-+9 keys.

I have 461 ilvl and could easily tank 10-12 keys, but i just cant be bothered learning the specific routes for dungeons from a video(the general concensus seems to be that tanks need to know them by heart, and not ask about them). I wouldnt mind learning them while doing it, but there is no low level version you can stroll through and learn this in. This is solely +10 and people have expectations from a tank.

Now, its not really the same problem as learning the other affixes, because i can literally just read on them what they do, and by that know what i need to do. But thats not the case for this one. It brings a LOT of complexity for no real gain outside of MDI(as far as i see it).

Am i completely alone in this? I really hate that affix

If you can't check a route before going to a dungeon, don't bother doing the dungeon. You advertise here, right here, how you can't be bothered? Then tanking 10+ isn't for you. Its for those who bother to put in 10 seconds of research before a dungeon, a whole 10 seconds to check a map or get it to some addon ingame.

[ClassicPeon]

The only general knowledge you need is know the dungeon already, which you do from 0-9.



Except you don't have to do it every week. You can use the same route every week if you wanted. Just certain affixes will be easier if you change up the route. Just like 0-9.



No, the mentality is you don't want to put in ~5 minutes worth of work to learn a new affix. You are literally making this harder than it needs to be. Grab a route and use it every week if you want.



Except it literally does make the run easier. You are making it seem like it is a new affix that could blow you up in 1 shot if you don't do something. It's like using a Cloak of Shadows / Group Invis on Keys 0-9 except you have control of how you want to do it. It's like me telling you tyrannical or fortified is easy on lower keys. Does it impact your gameplay or make you change things? Nope, not really. Awakened is the same thing, except grants you the power to avoid nasty packs that you hated in lower keys. For example, you can skip the entire last pack in Mechagon: Workshop (ones that have a potential of wiping your group) and just go to the last boss and pretend they were never there.

Stop overthinking it. Grab a route. Look at it. Run it. After 1 run then figure out what questions you have. Right now you are trying to come up with 100 questions about an affix when there are none and any you have are easily answered by experiencing it once.

Ehm no. This thread was never about the difficulty of the dungeons. Like i've literally never mentioned that once. Weather or not it makes the difficulty of the mobs easier or harder just isnt part of it. Its about the fact that its learning something new vs continueing as you are used to.

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Great, you haven't failed a single key this week. Congratz.

Now why is an ex-high end mythic raider complaining about a simple "drag-the-mob-here" affix in +10 keys then?

I've explained that multiple times. Feel free to read the thread.

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If you can't check a route before going to a dungeon, don't bother doing the dungeon. You advertise here, right here, how you can't be bothered? Then tanking 10+ isn't for you. Its for those who bother to put in 10 seconds of research before a dungeon, a whole 10 seconds to check a map or get it to some addon ingame.

Its funny how it went from 1 hour videoes, to 10 minutes of reading, to 2 minutes of reading to 10 seconds of reading. You guys should probably do a get together and agree on the time needed before postiong here :P

[Lucetia]

Ehm no. This thread was never about the difficulty of the dungeons. Like i've literally never mentioned that once. Weather or not it makes the difficulty of the mobs easier or harder just isnt part of it. Its about the fact that its learning something new vs continueing as you are used to.

Except you have with the tone of every post. I mean by your logic you should be complaining about Fort/Tyran along with +4 and +7 affixes every week. I mean it's a different combination for 11 or 12 weeks. It's learning something new, but you have no problem with that right? This is the exact same thing. You are literally making a mountain out of a molehill. How did you the other affixes? Guess what, you do the same thing with Awakened.

Its funny how it went from 1 hour videoes, to 10 minutes of reading, to 2 minutes of reading to 10 seconds of reading. You guys should probably do a get together and agree on the time needed before postiong here :P

No, it's literally the same thing. You can easily read the tooltip and figure it out in 10 seconds. If you need a push then ~2-5 minutes of reading/grabbing a route is there. That doesn't work then watch 30-60 minutes worth of videos to grasp it. The amount of time is up to you, but most people can figure it out in a few seconds. For those that can't do a run as a dps/healer and then watch what happens.

[ClassicPeon]

Except you have with the tone of every post. I mean by your logic you should be complaining about Fort/Tyran along with +4 and +7 affixes every week. I mean it's a different combination for 11 or 12 weeks. It's learning something new, but you have no problem with that right? This is the exact same thing. You are literally making a mountain out of a molehill. How did you the other affixes? Guess what, you do the same thing with Awakened.



No, it's literally the same thing. You can easily read the tooltip and figure it out in 10 seconds. If you need a push then ~2-5 minutes of reading/grabbing a route is there. That doesn't work then watch 30-60 minutes worth of videos to grasp it. The amount of time is up to you, but most people can figure it out in a few seconds. For those that can't do a run as a dps/healer and then watch what happens.

All those affixes can be practised on low level m+ keys. I have no problem learning something new in faceroll content that i can just outgear and as such wont wipe the group with it.

Its literally not the same thing.

The amount of time is up to you, but most people can figure it out in a few seconds.

thats great for most people. I spend an hour last night watching a video before feeling prepaired enough to do Siege 10+. Thats the amount of time i needed to grasp the pulls of that dungeon and i think its too much time spend.

The easiest way to combat this would be to make the affixes available as a special setting on normal(or whatever) so that you can practise them in an enviroment that isnt toxic

[Lucetia]

All those affixes can be practised on low level m+ keys. I have no problem learning something new in faceroll content that i can just outgear and as such wont wipe the group with it.

Awakened can be practiced in +10 just the same. +10's are pretty faceroll, especially now as more people get gear.

Its literally not the same thing.

It is. At this point you are just making up excuses to make up excuses. Either you do a +10 and figure it out or you'll keep complaining about it. It's not hard.

thats great for most people. I spend an hour last night watching a video before feeling prepaired enough to do Siege 10+. Thats the amount of time i needed to grasp the pulls of that dungeon and i think its too much time spend.

So you picked Siege +10 as your first experience of Awakened? One of the crappier dungeons? Ok, whatever.

The easiest way to combat this would be to make the affixes available as a special setting on normal(or whatever) so that you can practise them in an enviroment that isnt toxic

No. That isn't needed. Do it in the intended environment. Run with people you know or run with pugs. Stop making it harder than it is. It's not like you are jumping into a +12, +13, etc. +10's are cakewalks even if you mess up.

Again, you are basically complaining just to complain for whatever reason. There's nothing to achieve out of complaining about this other than just showing others that you can't be bothered to put in a couple minutes of work or go run it yourself.

[ClassicPeon]

Awakened can be practiced in +10 just the same. +10's are pretty faceroll, especially now as more people get gear.



It is. At this point you are just making up excuses to make up excuses. Either you do a +10 and figure it out or you'll keep complaining about it. It's not hard.




So you picked Siege +10 as your first experience of Awakened? One of the crappier dungeons? Ok, whatever.



No. That isn't needed. Do it in the intended environment. Run with people you know or run with pugs. Stop making it harder than it is. It's not like you are jumping into a +12, +13, etc. +10's are cakewalks even if you mess up.

Again, you are basically complaining just to complain for whatever reason. There's nothing to achieve out of complaining about this other than just showing others that you can't be bothered to put in a couple minutes of work or go run it yourself.

its the key i have :/ As several other of your peers have mentioned i shouldnt go in and "ruin peoples key's". So i sign with my own key. You also keep this up as if what i'm having difficuloty is the 10+ itself. The difficulty of the dungeon doesnt really scare me. Its the toxicity of people who get really fucking angry as soon as you dont do whats expected.

Awakened can be practiced in +10 just the same

So should i go into 10+'s and just practise and potentially ruin peoples key's or shouldnt i? make up your mind.

[Garymorilix]

All those affixes can be practised on low level m+ keys. I have no problem learning something new in faceroll content that i can just outgear and as such wont wipe the group with it.

Its literally not the same thing.



thats great for most people. I spend an hour last night watching a video before feeling prepaired enough to do Siege 10+. Thats the amount of time i needed to grasp the pulls of that dungeon and i think its too much time spend.

The easiest way to combat this would be to make the affixes available as a special setting on normal(or whatever) so that you can practise them in an enviroment that isnt toxic

Mr world top 10 mythic raider needs a 1 hour preparation for a +10 dungeon, alrite.

Why don't you just reroll DPS at this point and let actual tanks do the job?
That way at least you will see the easy content you cannot grasp yourself.

[Lucetia]

its the key i have :/ As several other of your peers have mentioned i shouldnt go in and "ruin peoples key's". So i sign with my own key. You also keep this up as if what i'm having difficuloty is the 10+ itself. The difficulty of the dungeon doesnt really scare me. Its the toxicity of people who get really fucking angry as soon as you dont do whats expected.

Then go on Dungeon Finder and find another key. Tanks are in high demand.

So should i go into 10+'s and just practise and potentially ruin peoples key's or shouldnt i? make up your mind.

Again, you are putting a lot of thought into this. Vast majority of the people aren't going to care. They just want the dungeon done for the chest. Even if you mess up in Awakened you aren't going to ruin the key unless you get <440 geared people and even then it might not make a difference. Heck I had a friend who was in 410's (when they were gearing up) and we still carried through 10's without problems. That was with me as a paladin tank who has some of the crappiest dps out of all the tanks, even with Rank 2 TD / Rank 2 EV / Rank 2 Twisting Appendage.

[ClassicPeon]

Mr world top 10 mythic raider needs a 1 hour preparation for a +10 dungeon, alrite.

Why don't you just reroll DPS at this point and let actual tanks do the job?
That way at least you will see the easy content you cannot grasp yourself.

As someone who have raid lead and raided mythic i know that understanding core mechanics is key to progression. Its not about the number being 10 or 20. Its about understanding the mechanics before entering high level keys. But hey, keep trying to be toxic