Thread: Bard class lore

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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Is there direct lore supporting a Bard class? Not that I'm aware of.

    Is there points of influence that could be used? Sure. There are a number of song/music related abilities in game. Also, Lorewalker Cho, for example, shows that stories and words have power, at least in Pandaria. And Lorewalker Cho is awesome.

    Adding a Bard class would be a bit of an asspull, but no more of an asspull than a lot of the things that Blizzard has already put into the game.
    Pandaren bards could be called Lorewalkers, thinking of it. Or even the class as a whole.
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  2. #22
    We can probably extrapolate bard to also include: minstrels, dancers, and musicians as well.

    - The Kodo Beast unit from Warcraft 3 can have its drums played to increase the damage and speed of attacks done by allies, and is probably the oldest example in Warcraft

    - Leatherworkers have been able to craft Drums to echo Bloodlust or Heroism type effects for many expansions

    - Priests historically have used Hymn abilities to heal groups, restore mana, and otherwise bolster their allies

    - Blade Dance is a Demon Hunter ability that damages nearby targets in a flourish, while increasing dodge temporarily

    - Dancing Steel is a melee-oriented weapon enchant added in Mists that sometimes increase Strength or Agility when dealing melee damage

    - Dancing Mists was a Mistweaver Artifact trait that immediately allowed friendly healing effects to transfer to additional targets

    - Blade Dancer was an Outlaw Artifact trait that increased energy regeneration while Blade Flurry was active

    - Hearthsinger Forresten is an elite mob found in Stratholme that drops a piccolo that famously causes those nearby to dance

    - From 'Dance of the Dead', Drust would leave small tokens to summon dancing spectres that would entrance those who watched - making them vulnerable and easy prey

    - Alizabal, this shivarra was the third boss in Baradin Hold and would use a deadly Blade Dance that would also deflect incoming attacks for the duration

    - Other bosses like Mordesh Fire Eye (Razorfen Downs) and Lady Waycrest are other examples of encounters that feature music or song as a combat element

    - Written music has precedent with Vrykul like Helgus composing the three Sagas of Twins, Winter Curse, and Val'kyr respectively

    - The most recent addition to creature type that uses magic in song is the Siren

    - Older examples of creatures that use song for magical damage include most famously banshees, but sometimes also harpies, owls, and bats among others as well

    - If we're using traditional Bardic Inspiration as a basis for the class, Foreman Thazz'ril and the Foreman Blackjack could be interpreted as the earliest example a player may run into in WoW

    - Auction House Dance Party is a regular micro-world event holiday that takes place during the New Year

    Some examples of other performers in WoW:
    Blade-Dancers: Blade-Dancer Aeryx (Arakkoa), Blade-Dancer Zorlak (Mantid), Blade Dancer Illianna (Shivarra), Kargath Bladefist (drops Blade Dancer's Claws in Highmaul)
    Harpists: Aimele, Irius, and Rosaine.
    Minstrel: Camerick Jongleur (Menethil Harbor, Wetlands)
    Organist: Sebastian (Karazhan)
    Drums: Grohl Grohl, Torv Dubstomp, and various tribal drummers (such as Darkspear, Revantusk, and Sen'jin Drummers)
    Bands: Elite Tauren Chieftain, Blight Boar, The Medivas, Hardrogg's Drogbar (incl. Boprul, Tinkrul, Clomprul)

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    We can probably extrapolate bard to also include: minstrels, dancers, and musicians as well.

    - The Kodo Beast unit from Warcraft 3 can have its drums played to increase the damage and speed of attacks done by allies, and is probably the oldest example in Warcraft

    - Leatherworkers have been able to craft Drums to echo Bloodlust or Heroism type effects for many expansions

    - Priests historically have used Hymn abilities to heal groups, restore mana, and otherwise bolster their allies

    - Blade Dance is a Demon Hunter ability that damages nearby targets in a flourish, while increasing dodge temporarily

    - Dancing Steel is a melee-oriented weapon enchant added in Mists that sometimes increase Strength or Agility when dealing melee damage

    - Dancing Mists was a Mistweaver Artifact trait that immediately allowed friendly healing effects to transfer to additional targets

    - Blade Dancer was an Outlaw Artifact trait that increased energy regeneration while Blade Flurry was active

    - Hearthsinger Forresten is an elite mob found in Stratholme that drops a piccolo that famously causes those nearby to dance

    - From 'Dance of the Dead', Drust would leave small tokens to summon dancing spectres that would entrance those who watched - making them vulnerable and easy prey

    - Alizabal, this shivarra was the third boss in Baradin Hold and would use a deadly Blade Dance that would also deflect incoming attacks for the duration

    - Other bosses like Mordesh Fire Eye (Razorfen Downs) and Lady Waycrest are other examples of encounters that feature music or song as a combat element

    - Written music has precedent with Vrykul like Helgus composing the three Sagas of Twins, Winter Curse, and Val'kyr respectively

    - The most recent addition to creature type that uses magic in song is the Siren

    - Older examples of creatures that use song for magical damage include most famously banshees, but sometimes also harpies, owls, and bats among others as well

    - If we're using traditional Bardic Inspiration as a basis for the class, Foreman Thazz'ril and the Foreman Blackjack could be interpreted as the earliest example a player may run into in WoW

    - Auction House Dance Party is a regular micro-world event holiday that takes place during the New Year

    Some examples of other performers in WoW:
    Blade-Dancers: Blade-Dancer Aeryx (Arakkoa), Blade-Dancer Zorlak (Mantid), Blade Dancer Illianna (Shivarra), Kargath Bladefist (drops Blade Dancer's Claws in Highmaul)
    Harpists: Aimele, Irius, and Rosaine.
    Minstrel: Camerick Jongleur (Menethil Harbor, Wetlands)
    Organist: Sebastian (Karazhan)
    Drums: Grohl Grohl, Torv Dubstomp, and various tribal drummers (such as Darkspear, Revantusk, and Sen'jin Drummers)
    Bands: Elite Tauren Chieftain, Blight Boar, The Medivas, Hardrogg's Drogbar (incl. Boprul, Tinkrul, Clomprul)
    You didn't even add Murmur to this list, which explains that sound itself is an element. That's perhaps one of the most important pieces of the puzzle!
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  4. #24
    Isn't it that titan souls and Azeroth are dreaming and their dream is like a song or w/e. I want to say that I came across it in chronicles but not easy access for me now so I don't really want to commit to that but if that's the case then one can come down with enough lore either from this titan soul world or somewhere else that can justify a bard class lore wise easily

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    Is there any basis for a bard class in WoW lore?

    The easy answer would be no. Nowhere does it say in WoW that music has any inherent magical power.
    I'd disagree, whether or not music has any power is irrelevant to the idea that bards could exist. I'd like to also point out that when arguing about magic... most of the various forms don't really agree with logic very well (part of being "magic" i'd guess).
    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    But here's the thing. We know that in order to use Arcane magic, it has to be channeled. This can happen either through the spellcaster themselves or through runes, per proxy. Why runes? Runes work, because their shape and patterns mimic the ley lines throughout Azeroth. They channel the energies correspondent to them. (The arcane spellcaster also draws their power from the leylines, to be sure.)
    Arcane, fel, death, frost... whichever cosmic force is being looked at can have any number of ways to manipulate it. Shaman, runespeakers, and mages all call upon frost powers in different ways. Another thing is that druids in various sources have also been mentioned calling weird forms of magic from interesting places (pulling fire out of seeds to ignite targets for example)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    Well, that's nice. So what does this interesting, albeit probably irrelevant WoW lore factoid have to do with the bard class?

    Sound creates shapes and patterns, too.
    These are called chladni figures and they are sort of the conjunction between geometry and sounds waves.
    that's all well and good but RL physics doesn't mesh well with fictional realities among parties that ignore many planar laws to intermingle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    Bards are - well - could be spellcasters that, instead of using themselves or writings, use the patterns made by sound in order to retrace the leylines and channel their arcane energies.
    sure, head canon here makes a bit of sense. Now while I'll immediately jump to the DnD player's handbook and find something about Bard casting spells (i think 5e stops there, pathfinder and 3.5 state "arcane" but that IP's arcane isn't the same as WoW's Arcane and hell WoW's arcane hasn't stayed consistent through time). I think there's more than just bards and sound based music in much the same war a barbarian is more then just Raging and swinging a heavy weapon or monk is more than just unarmed strike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    Anyway, I am not advocating for bards to be implemented into the game. To be honest, their premise still strikes me as quite silly and I'm not sure they'd really fit WoW. That being said, this was just an idea that came to my mind this early morning. Bards may be silly but they could totally work. Lorewise.
    I think you're not looking for "bard" so much as discussing the impact and meaning of "Doot doot magic flute"

    Personally, Bards were something I viewed as varying between support caster and flanker/backline dd. Not just sound based caster, such a pigeon hole is like saying DnD's fighter was exclusively a warrior (ignoring the fact that fighter is one of the best baselines to turn into an archer)


    edit:

    if bards were being looked at as an added class variant, I'd hope they dig up the various materials from tabletop gamesand comb through them. There were a number of options that blurred what bard was and shifted them more into something like sorcerers (having some of the same class options to build into) but at the same time also had other variants that were more like generals leading troops or focused more on their buff skills.
    Last edited by mickybrighteyes; 2020-05-13 at 06:10 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by haediff View Post
    if bard were to ever become a class that would be the day I would unsub.
    Hmm, I had zero interest in this class, but this sounds like a good reason to add Bards now.

  7. #27
    something to add in. I for one would really hope they don't add more classes. We already have something like 30 odd speccs treated as separate classes almost with totally different resource/procc effects trying to make them feel unique and in some cases too many sharing the same loot (looking at leather wearers...)

  8. #28
    Every time someone brings up "Bard" I just see "Everquest," and I can't even think about considering the class.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Every time someone brings up "Bard" I just see "Everquest," and I can't even think about considering the class.
    Did you know? The first appearance of the Bard class for Dungeons and Dragons was first showcased in Strategic Review, Valume 2 Number 1 back in 1976 -- at least 23 years before Everquest released. If the difference between DnD's Bard and Everquest was a person, they'd be an adult right now. The more you know.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Did you know? The first appearance of the Bard class for Dungeons and Dragons was first showcased in Strategic Review, Valume 2 Number 1 back in 1976 -- at least 23 years before Everquest released. If the difference between DnD's Bard and Everquest was a person, they'd be an adult right now. The more you know.
    And I thought the character Finder Wyvernspur in the Forgotten Realms setting was interesting when first read in "Azure Bonds"
    But that does little for me in WoW...and did even less for me in EQ.
    de·fund
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    prevent from continuing to receive funds.
    "the California Legislature has defunded the Industrial Welfare Commission"


  11. #31
    Lorewalkers in MoP and Wardrummers in W3 would be the most prominent examples of what can represent a Bard. We also have the bands Elite Tauren Chieftain and Blight Boar who showcase alternative music and instruments existing within the world, though they don't exactly showcase Bardic powers. We also have numerous examples from within quests of using horns to empower allied NPCs, though this can be interpreted as simply inspiration. Murmur also exists, so we have a creature described as a manifestation of the element of sound, which is something we have not had an explanation to for 13 years.

    There's about as much lore in the game for Bards as there was for Monks before MoP came out. While some say Chen Stormstout is proof Monks existed and were present before MoP, the word "monk" was never used by Chen or by others to describe him. Brewmaster isn't inspired by Monks, Monks were inspired by the Brewmaster, which were inspired by the Drunken Boxing martial arts style that was being popularized at the time by Jackie Chan.

    Point is Blizzard made an entire expansion out of Chen Stormstout, who was originally made as a joke and was meant to be a one-off character. Blizzard could make up lore for Bards just as easily as they did for Monks. Also let us not forget how inspired by Everquest WoW is, a game that has Bards. Back in the day at launch WoW was described as an "Everquest clone" just like how we call so many games a "WoW clone".

  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire Sagenod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durff123 View Post
    Lorewalkers in MoP and Wardrummers in W3 would be the most prominent examples of what can represent a Bard. We also have the bands Elite Tauren Chieftain and Blight Boar who showcase alternative music and instruments existing within the world, though they don't exactly showcase Bardic powers. We also have numerous examples from within quests of using horns to empower allied NPCs, though this can be interpreted as simply inspiration. Murmur also exists, so we have a creature described as a manifestation of the element of sound, which is something we have not had an explanation to for 13 years.

    There's about as much lore in the game for Bards as there was for Monks before MoP came out. While some say Chen Stormstout is proof Monks existed and were present before MoP, the word "monk" was never used by Chen or by others to describe him. Brewmaster isn't inspired by Monks, Monks were inspired by the Brewmaster, which were inspired by the Drunken Boxing martial arts style that was being popularized at the time by Jackie Chan.

    Point is Blizzard made an entire expansion out of Chen Stormstout, who was originally made as a joke and was meant to be a one-off character. Blizzard could make up lore for Bards just as easily as they did for Monks. Also let us not forget how inspired by Everquest WoW is, a game that has Bards. Back in the day at launch WoW was described as an "Everquest clone" just like how we call so many games a "WoW clone".
    I sound like a broken record at this point, but we literally have a "Chen Stormstout" as it were, to link us to bards in Murmur from Shadow Labyrinth. Nobody is even considering that guy in this thread.

    Are we all just going to ignore that sound itself is literally being regarded as an element in the lore? Or are people just not interested in that guy? I for one, find it interesting that an elemental from another part of the universe is the "essence of sound." This at the very least lends credence to a lore-friendly "sound shaman" of a sort.
    Check out the Drakonaar, my playable race concept! (WIP -- Looking for artists)


  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    I sound like a broken record at this point, but we literally have a "Chen Stormstout" as it were, to link us to bards in Murmur from Shadow Labyrinth. Nobody is even considering that guy in this thread.
    I did. Even before you.

    Are we all just going to ignore that sound itself is literally being regarded as an element in the lore? Or are people just not interested in that guy? I for one, find it interesting that an elemental from another part of the universe is the "essence of sound." This at the very least lends credence to a lore-friendly "sound shaman" of a sort.
    Yeah, I think it could be linked to the elements too (nature based). And as I said, it could be linked to Holy power. The Naaru, for one, are always accompanied by soothing sounds.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

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