Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider

[ravenmoon]

Read these two sentences again. You're literally contradicting yourself.

When Highborne are referred to, they're referred to as something that existed in the past. Splinter groups continue to exist, but by and large, they're no longer Highborne.

When silly people like you

and the OP talk about Highborne, you're talking about a group of people that once existed, but no longer does. The imaginary group of people you really mean to address in your quest to paint night elves as being super awesome mages are the Blood Elves.

Oh, so now they're only highborne when their large and numerous, but not when they're as you call it a "splinter" group - This is so rich, I'm a silly person for telling you HIghborne are night elves, and that the highborne caste is still around and runited with the night elves, that sHen'dralar are highborne, adn everyone they train int heir order is. I won't give you the stisfaction of pulling uup the references, I will just laugh, as you speak nonsense with confidence. Just go read the lore.. and get some education.

[Tanaria]

That circle seem desperate for night elves not to be Highborne - it's silly, because Highborne are night elves and the night elf mage you play is one, not to mention a faction of them are now united with the Darnassians.

I feel I am teaching kids who suddenly forget what they were shown just the other day.

A faction, yes - but a fraction of what they once were.
The Horde killed many of them, as well as Prince Tortheldrin, in his infinite wisdom.

Most Highborne have either long since died, or became Naga.
Also, by the story of Sensiria in Feralas - it isn't out the realms of possibility that some former Shen'dralar, also joined Dath'Remar and took exile.

Oh, so now they're only highborne when their large and numerous, but not when they're as you call it a "splinter" group - This is so rich, I'm a silly person for telling you HIghborne are night elves, and that the highborne caste is still around and runited with the night elves, that sHen'dralar are highborne, adn everyone they train int heir order is.

No they aren't actually.

Those who trained were still Lowborn Kaldorei. They are and will never be, of Highborne blood. It's a status symbol which is still embedded.

Vestia Moonspear was a Kaldorei, none-Highborne, Night Elven Mage.

[Tuor]

That circle seem desperate for night elves not to be Highborne - it's silly, because Highborne are night elves and the night elf mage you play is one, not to mention a faction of them are now united with the Darnassians.

I feel I am teaching kids who suddenly forget what they were shown just the other day.

You actually missteaching, yes, Highborne and Nigh Elfs are the same race, their race name however is called Kaldorei, not NElf. NElf is the faction that banned magic, and the Highborn is the faction that refused to stop using magic, and that once rulled over all of the kaldorei Elfs.

[Lahis]

If blizzard want they can do that, is that what you want?

However make no mistake about it, it's not a "must" - look at you dictating what should be. Nelves and worgen aren't joined at the hip. And last I checked, Worgen had their own home in Glineas city. Blizzard could design a nelf home that is partially for worgen if they want, they could design a nelf home that has quarters for every alliance race.

I don't see the point really, Nelves already have cities and their own architecture and stuff, as do worgen - but o blizzard "MUST" do as you say.

Gilneas was abandoned and ransacked by the Forsaken.

[Mace]

You actually missteaching, yes, Highborne and Nigh Elfs are the same race, their race name however is called Kaldorei, not NElf. NElf is the faction that banned magic, and the Highborn is the faction that refused to stop using magic, and that once rulled over all of the kaldorei Elfs.

night elf is the race, Darnassians are the alliance faction. We no longer call that group "The Night Elves" like we did in WC3, that WC3 group is split, the Cenarians and some night elves are now part of the Cenarion Circle, the Sea Giants do their thing, the Ancients ally themselves with different factions. Those that built Darnassus moved from Hyjal/Moonglade after the long vigil ended.

We soon after met other groups of night elves, like the Highborne Shen'dralar, the Illidari, the Farondis, the Dreamwardens, the Valewalkers, the Moonguard, the Nightborne. who are a sub-race of night elves a new race of night elf.

You can do whatever ou want, but you won't be understanding me if every time you read me write night elves you think only of the Darnassian faction, night elf is the race's name, not the faction any longer. On character creation, undead is the name of the race, but the faction of undead you play are Forsaken.

[Tanaria]

Gilneas was abandoned and ransacked by the Forsaken.

I think the desperation to see Night Elves either in Suramar or joined at the hip to Nightborne has made him forget this part of the story.

(even though they may consider themselves such

Doubtful.

Thalyssra is a prime example. At every point, she always refers to herself and her people as the "shal'dorei." She was born a highborne night elf, but that is irrelevant. She refers to herself as a "Nightborne" and that goes the same for the Suramar citizens.

The only other person, who is not an elf in the immediate form, who refers to herself as a "Highborne" is Lady Vashj.
"We are the Highborne and the time has come for us to retake our rightful place in the world."

So the Naga can still refer to themselves as "Highborne" whereas Nightborne don't. They only seemingly refer to themselves as "Nightborne" which is fine, because that is their race. They aren't Night Elves. They are Nightborne.
I don't feel like a Night Elf, when I play my Nightborne Mage, Warlock or Rogue.

[Tuor]

@Mace
Their race name is Kaldorei... The NElfs (or Darnassians) its a faction inside the Kaldorei race, the Highborn (the ones that survived) are yet another, the new Nightborne seem to be another (i haven't played them). But again, their race name is Kaldorei, that is what they call themselves, and yes, they all know they the same race.

NElfs, the ones we play ingame since classic, its just a faction inside the Kaldorei race, and no, they NOT magic based, they nature based... Because they have banned it, well untill the some of the Highborn rejoined.

[Lahis]

Don't buy into all this nonsense.

Night elf is the name of the race in common, it's actually kaldorei in the elven tongue.

Nope. Kaldorei means Children of the Stars.

[ravenmoon]

No they aren't actually.

Those who trained were still Lowborn Kaldorei. They are and will never be, of Highborne blood. It's a status symbol which is still embedded.

Vestia Moonspear was a Kaldorei, none-Highborne, Night Elven Mage.

There are two types who train with the Shen'dralar.

1. Highborne who lived and stayed with the Darnassians - (most likely picked up druidism judging from the Lorekeeper spells), these put aside their status under the old society and upheld the ban, when it was lifted and the Shen'dralar Highborne caste officially accepted back into night elf society, they returned to their calling and caste.

These are the Lorekeepers you fight in the Azshara zone, who are using "outdated" magic, they are only a few weeks returned to magic, this is how their magic can be exploited because in some areas it hasn't been updated. I can see why some of them are in Talendris point - because the Daranssians are short on numbers, and although they've switched back to the arcane, they know battle and combat -


2. Novices, brand new night elves who have the talent for the arcane. These are now Highborne (everyone who trains with the Shen'dralar is picked by them to join the caste, so these novice mages are now Highborne too). You see them as clumps of students in Azshara zone, Feralas, Darnassus, they like the adventurer would be starting from scratch, but are highly gifted and talented in the arcane. Which is the criteria for their selection.

Technically there isn't "lowborne" kaldorei after the sundering except in Suramar. The Long Vigil group had a culture change with high and low no longer having any meaning, which is why when Darth'remar 's group are exiled, they are called Highborne once more I would imagine they had stopped being called that. In the Shen'dralar of Eldre'thalas, it's an all Highborne community and city.


And FYI - lowborne is not a caste. There isn't such. It is a slur, as quests in Suramar show (which as you well know is Kaldorei pre-sundering and Highborne culture). Caste's are select groups based on status or function. If you understand what the term caste means, you can pick out some castes amongst the night elven old or Highborne led society.

• Highborne caste ofc
• There was a nobility caste that wasn't Highborne - like Lord Ravencrest - this would have been from older nobility before the Queen creates a new higher order.
• There is the Priest caste - The Order of Elune is an entire society of it's own, they are a very presitigious and well known caste.
• The druid's and followers of nature would have been a caste too, though those that remained by the invasion period were not part of most urban societies, Malfurion was not aware of them for example and in that invasion period, Cenarius was legend/myth amongst many a city night elf in Suramar (WotA Well of Eternity), however he tells us some o the treants are night elves, some who've forgotten that they're elves. They may not consider themselves s such, but to the highly educated and strcutred night elves of a global well organised and structured empire, they would be considered a caste by most night elves even if they didn't regard themselves as such

Now I am not sure of others, but those would have been the major ones, the rest of the society would likely be normal, and have various degrees of prestige and esteem whether as crafters, mage soldiers like the Moonguard (not a caste), the Valewalkers, the military - only the above would have a "different lifestyle" based on endogamy, with a niche culture within the main culture.

Think about it, You could be raised to Highborne by the Queen, but most Highborne by the time of the 1st invasion are born into it. Now less light appears on the priest caste, so we don't know if it is hereditary or calling based or both, it operates differently from the Highobrne ofc, and they're all female too.

Much is Unknown About the Night Elves Ancient Culture
One of my big desires is to know more about Night elf culture, it's an entirely made up culture, and it's different from human culture, while maintaining some parallels. THe Night elves were benevolent and graceful, and highly intelligent for the most part, until around the time of the 1st invasion when the Queen was obsessively pushing forward with studying the well and the use of arcane magic, she got addicted, they became quite arrogant and reckless - which is not exactly benevolent or graceful. There civilization would have ben stunning and utopic for the most part until that bad attitude and arrogance/pride started festering. Highborne close to the queen were very proud of their elevated status and favour by the Monarch, and use d that to be very "ungraceful" getting the ire of most of the society. There arrogance led to use aracne magic without caution for wider consquences, which leads to the Queen discovering the Legion when Sargeras reaches out, the madness in Zin'Azshari's palace is ripe as the Queen opens the gateway and has her highborne lackeys in the palace continue the effort.

Now ofc we know not all Highborne were complicit, some like the Farondis rebelled entirely, and she made a public and harsh example of them, which imo, is why the Shen'dralar didn't oppose the queen for so long (at least openly, Malfurion says they did nothing until their city was attacked - which to me simply means if they were opposing her, it wasn't openly - however they caught her ire as she sent demons there, which means they weren't supporting her either).

Suramar ofc rebelled we know this, the night elf resistance, Tyrande, the Order of Elune, the shadowsongs etc all come from Surmar, many rallied to Lord Ravencrest in the Val'Sharah province in Black Rook Hold, a lot of Suramar was destroyed by the demons pouring out through the second portal - this is why Maiev, also from Suramar hates the legion so much, Elisande's group of Highborne rebel against the queen, seal the portal, but refuse the new High Priestesss (Dejanah is killed in that invasion of Suramar) invitation to march on Zin'Azshari. Most cities would have rebelled against the queen, because she sent the demonic horde to all of them.

I would imagine that those amongst them that sided with her would have gone to the palace, but if the Azsuna lore is considered carefully, there is a good chance that most away from the epicentre at the palace were not so consumed and mislead - which is why they weren't spared.

WotA tells us most night elves were shocked as the demonic horde destroyed their cities and civilization, crying for the Queen to save them , unwilling to believe or stunned she had betrayed them. It took some effort convincing Ravencrest that the Queen was no victim of some arrogant Palace Highborne plot, but the instigator.


However, while we know about the Highborne - as its culture dominates Suramar and we have lots of history including wotA of their character, we actually don't know much about the cutlture. We know the stars plays a huge role, these people love the stars (they love their arcane magic and they love nature, and they love their Goddess) but they also love the stars, in fact the stars is the epicentre of their civilization - they call themselves the Children of the Stars - not the children of the moon, nor the children of the forest, nor the children of the Well nor Children of Eternity. But the stars. We know their tall palatial towers are called astrological towaers, and we know that across the board, priests, druids, mages alike call down arcane magic from the stars and moon.

Current Suramar Culture - is a Unique Kaldorei Pre-sundering Culture:
Star Augurs exist thanks to Star Augur Ertraues, and gives us some insight into this further. However Nightborne Suramar while preserving their kaldorei culture pristinely over the millennia, is not the full picture of the culture of the age.

When the shield comes up, certain things are lost:

• The priesthood - a major part of culture and a powerful and revered caste amongst the people is gone
• The stars and sky are gone - these would have played a heavy cultural significance blizzard have yet to reveal - but Suramar has a conjured sky cos the shield obfuscates the real one, Astrology towers would be useless and much star arcane magic dormant too (coming alive again when the shield drops in Legion)
• Nature is also heavily reduced - nature love and revere for the wilds is part of the night elf make up as much as having an arcane essence and love from their creation from the well of eternity is. Under the shield, the influence of this is severly diminished, and while the botanists maintain the garden and evelop skill in nature magic with the little nature they have there - you can see another facet eroding.

This leaves Suramar culture to be heavily Highborne caste influenced, with the much of the things of the wider society dying, so in effect, Suramar lives for most of the 10,000 years, like the Highborne caste only use to live, so the caste's culture and attributes now extend to dominate most of the city and all the other non-Highborne who stayed behind. Eldre'thalas would be similar to this, and this is why they are similar to the Blood elf culture.

Blood elf culture is different, it is not the same as the Highborne caste's culture nor pre-sundering Kaldorei culture, but it has some similarities based on what they dropped. The High elves dropped Elune worship, dropped the near spiritual revere for the wilds and the obsession with the ngith stars and moon. - this in many respects happens in Suramar culture, but to a lesser extent, because unlike the High elves, Suramar night elves aren't angry with Elune or being Night elves or anything like that.

However the rigid stratification, status obsession and nobility intrigue and vying for power that we have evidence had become more common place around the invasion period amongst the "no longer benevolent" palace highborne continue ofc in Suramar that has lower castes - whereas amongst the High elves it isn't, everyone is equal, they instead are forming a better society. Meanwhile Shen'dralar society, all Highborne too, would have a major difference over Suramar society having both access to nature and the stars

Other differences include the obsession and reckless use of arcane magic is absent from the High elves. Yes, they use and love arcane, but they're very strict and disciplined in its use (this is a thing the blood elf society that emerges after WC3 abandons). High elves, you can imagine more like an America, that has a King because George Washington doesn't die, and is a very good leader everyone respects, and this legacy continues through his children, so while a Monarchy, it isn't like Night elf society around the invasion period - one would say in their character, the high elves seem a bit closer to the Farondis Highborne and the earlier version of the caste before hubris and reckless abandonment overshadowed.

More differences ofc exist, diurnal instead of nocturnal, the sun, the Light religion - but as a more pragmatic than religious/superstitious people, th einfluence of religion is not so critical hence why there are similarities. High elves afterall are based off Highborne they once were.


However, there are differences, it is not the same society - it's like Dark Iron dwarves and bronzebeard dwarves, or and the druidic culture long vigil kaldorei, seem very different on the surface, but they're elves, and theya re the main elves never forget that. The long vigil society ofc changed a lot, reverence of the wilds playa much larger role as now without the arcane that group must rely totally on nature, unlike ever before. Druids become a large group, mages becaome non-existent in their community it change for the needs of the era - which is to prevent the Legion from returning.

It is not all unfamiliar, there were parts of night elven society that lived closer to this in the pre-sundering era, (think of It as a more rural, superstituious living -but without the silliness cos they're elves, not to mention the supernatural stuff is real now). They are de-centralised, and de-urbanised during ths period, when it ends that changes ofc, they have a centralised government, a city, and then arcane magic returns, things they didn't have to care about, like progress and advancement become necessary again, fortunately for the new post-vigil Darnassian society, the Highborne have also rejoined, and they are very much about progress , development and infrastructure - absolute necessities for group no longer in a bubble where all they had to focus on was hunting down rogue magic users trying to summon the legion or prevent people from accessing the Well of Eternity and learning the very magic that could lead them in turn to contact the legion and get duped by Sargeras.


So there you have it. The different night elven cultures, and elven cultures have differences and similarities alike.

What we haven't seen is the full pre-sundering night elf culture with all its customs, habits, focuses, and a lot of wholes in Elune and the stars aspect of them that have yet to be filled.

It is noteworthy that the kaldorei don't change their name at all, not even when a large part is very nature focused during the long vigil, and the city groups are very arcane focused. only the Shal'dorei change their name because they now live under night less sky in a state they feel would be their forever.

The Stars and the Role and Significance They Could Play
The way I am imagining it is that the stars and arcane are so embedded in them, that though culture completely changes for some of them, that aspect endures. I don't imagine priests and druids learnt spells like starfall during the long vigil. These would have been from the pre-sundering era, a legacy that continues though in a much reduced capacity, the exploration and strudy of the stars would have been elevated with the use of arcane magic from the well via astrolgocial towers, with priests and augurs who would marry spiritual significance with practical and magical applicaton - stars guide you navigationally, and would have magical connotations in magical world, like enhancing the intensity of their spells and focus on the ley lines. Stars also predict the future to some extent and characterise, it could be that a night elves destiny and calling are written in their stars,a nd a significant part of how their individual and daily lives are ordered could be baed on knowledge of these and experts in these fields lead the people. Who to marry would be in your stars, - also magical transportation would be stars related. Astrological alignment would dominate kaldorei cities patterned in layout based on the constellations and structured to mirror them, and this replication enhances spell work and causing stellar lamination to the cities in the night in way they would have if they were not so ordered.

You can then see in a much simplified society with far fewer people and far fewer acitivies, not to mention advanced activities, wile still significant to the kaldorei of the long vigil group, the role of the stars is less apparent, than it would be in a full civilization with billions carrying out all sorts of functions and roles in all manner of areas most of all magic ofc, but also callings to technology and science, industry (which is a totally different topic of exploration - how would industry work in a magical society, there wouldn't be a need for it like there is in a magicless or near magicless one - which is another consideration to how very different elven life can be from human life) , cooking and food, with restaurants, what about leisure and etenrtainment too. It is likely they don't have "gods", but stars would have been attributed to various functions and aspects of life, like love and war etc.. wild gods would be more to do with nature related things and animals, crops and growing, but it is slikely the two would hav e mixes. from the sky above and the stars, to what's on the ground.


I could go on and just imagine a ton of things based on the information they've given us. Now much of this is simply gone in the high elven society, star reference exists but only with respect o magical amplification, the stars are beautiful to elves, so is nature, but the obsession over it like the kaldorei people have is gone, replaced with the Sun, the light and confidence in themselves as their own masters - not Goddesses or stars or such.

The Nightborne being a highborne culture community would have similar pragmatism, but they would have lots of things from the kaldorei community they are based on. Now the Shen'dralar would be like the Nightborne, even more Highborne though, but nothing would have been divorced an d left out, and rejoining the Darnassians, it would be like old times with the priesthood, except the balance of power has shifted, they are not the pinnacle of this society, they are more on the fringes and still a bit their own thing, with full integreation not having come yet.


The Future:
It would be nice to see what the pre-sundering society is like and I think that they should make an effort to show this in Night elven cities in the future, while night elven forests should preserve the Long vigil like era - so you get to experience the two extremes of night elven eras just by changing habitat.

It wouldn't be entirely liekpre-sudnering times, cos now there are other races, allies and powerful enemies where in the past the kaldorei were supreme. Also they have new influences, like the demon hunters that developed with Ilildan in the first invasion, and the possibility that other disciplines and faiths like Paladins and Shamanism might make their way to the night elves. I would like them not to personally, and if they give night elves the paladin and shaman class it would actually be playstyles for night elf based versions like the Night Warrior for Paladins and the Star Augurs for shaman (or Arcane Entropists or Thermautages) - something elven based on their lore. The lazy way would be to just have a few one of individuals, so they are in a sense like Orc mages and Mag'har priests - just lone one off indivduals that join the human paladin teachings or the draenei on shamanism.

[Tanaria]

No.

Highborne is a strict caste, where families often arrange marriages to keep the bloodline status.
Those without Highborne blood are not Highborne - if you are a night elf, born to a male night elf rogue and female night elf priest in Ashenvale Forest, and you begin training in the arcane, you are still a none-Highborne night elf mage.

Your tutor could be a highborne shen'dralar, but you aren't. You weren't born in Eldre'Thalas, either before or after Azshara's reign and so you aren't part of the caste.
If we think about it - if this was the case, then the current Highborne truly are horrifically bad, because of the Blood Elves in Azshara, that easily rendered their constructs, useless. It shows they are really bad and/or, they are bad at picking students. At least the blood elves pick students based on promise and determination.

A big waffle like that isn't needed.

[ravenmoon]

Nope. Kaldorei means Children of the Stars.

That's what kaldorei means, i.e. translates too in common.

night elf is the name of the race in common, the way the night elves call themselves isn't translated directly to common. Think about it for a sec. Would you call yourself night human? d'uh, someone else would if the humans they are use to are normal, but you're different.

So they are night elves, because that's waht humans who speak common think of them as.. they are kaldorei , and so are the highborne. IF you think about it, Elves must view themselves differently to how the rest of the world, including humans do, that's natural for each race. Our persepctive is mostly human.

Think about it, most of the classes you play are from the human perspective, except the ones that humans can't play originally.

Why is it the priest you play is a Holy Light priest? When Night elves are Moon priests, trolls are loa priests, Tauren sunwalker ones? Because it's from the huma perspective. The only class from athe night elf race perspective is the Druid class -which is why it has those star/moon arcane spells that kaldorei priests and mages are also able to cast, but as the preist and mage class aren't from the kaldore race fantasy, those classes dont have kaldorei signatures spells.

The hunter had elements from elven rangers, orcish beastmasters, dwarven mountaineers (gun usage) and tribal hunters( using spears/polearms).

A llot of things are from perspective as humans, taking that back to the name, you're being a bit silly if you think night elf is not the name of the race. The faction The Night Elves dont' exist really anymore but even if you jchose to refer to the Darnassiasn as The Night elves, it isn't incorrect anyway, just realise that there are other night elves are around. likewise you should know Nightborne are night elves, not The Night Elves. WE don't even know if they consider themselves a highest caste of kaldorei, like the Highborne previously were, with a new meaning, of they don't consider themselves kaldorei at all. Judging from what I gathered from Nightborne quests, info on the High elves I think it is as follows.

THe night people (i.e. night elves) being much older regard the derivatives and themselves as elves, I don't think they regard the high elves as kaldorei, but they do consider them highborne, and regard them as a race of Highborne, in common known as high elves. The Shen'dralar and the highborne caste are Highborne too ofc, the original and infamous caste, but they are considered a caste of kaldorei nor as a different race (race in this setting is basically ethnicity). The Shal'dorei are both a caste and race, but of kaldorei, whereas the high elf quel'doriei are a race of Highborne but not a caste). This might seem complicated to us, but fo elves I suspect it is simple and elementary.

All nocturnal elves are night elves - night elf in this context is descriptive, as night people (or elves), , Kaldorei is the base and umbrella for the elven race, and only the high/blood elves no longer consider themselves children of the stars having abandoned or rather being exiled from that gathering and being changed by their connection to the well being altered or severed in some way.


I will note, that while you can think of it simply, simplicity doesn't necessary mean accuracy, it's not wrong because it's too complicated, and it's not necessarily right when it is simple. The elves are supposed to be a highly sophisticated and intelligent people who've lived long lives and have a much longer and advanced development, I mean kaldorei society was at a pinnacle 10,000 years ago.

this should give you some idea.

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No.

Highborne is a strict caste, where families often arrange marriages to keep the bloodline status.
Those without Highborne blood are not Highborne - if you are a night elf, born to a male night elf rogue and female night elf priest in Ashenvale Forest, and you begin training in the arcane, you are still a none-Highborne night elf mage.

Your tutor could be a highborne shen'dralar, but you aren't. You weren't born in Eldre'Thalas, either before or after Azshara's reign and so you aren't part of the caste.
If we think about it - if this was the case, then the current Highborne truly are horrifically bad, because of the Blood Elves in Azshara, that easily rendered their constructs, useless. It shows they are really bad and/or, they are bad at picking students. At least the blood elves pick students based on promise and determination.

A big waffle like that isn't needed.

You are missing the lore here. While what you are saying can be true in normal circumstances, part of the agreement of the shen'dralar joining up with the Darnassians was that they keep their culture, they decide on magical matters and they pick new candidates that join them as Highborne. This is in Wolfheart.

Theya re not just tarining daranssians for "daranssiasn society" theya re rebuilding the caste and increasing their depleted numbers. They are also keeping to their own caste structures and systems, which is different in it's own right from normal non-highborne kaldorei, and has laways been although the degree of difference has varied based on what period you are looking at.

Every Night elf mage a part of Darnassian society is Highborne, whether Shen'dralar, or a returned old Darnassian Highborne or a new novice.

The Night elf mage you play is a highborne, but not a shen'dralar Highborne, but either a brand new novice or a returned Highborne. Ofc you can decide that you're playing a Shen'dralar, up to you ,Chris Metzen himself said if you want to be a 10k year old arcane maestro Shen'dralar you can be, although that is not the levelling experience version.

Danuser again confirms this recently, that you decide who in lore your character is ultimately, character opening narrative and cinematic is not there to limit your option, it just provides a generalised version. When you think about it, not all night elves you play are even Darnassians, the Illidari demon hunters are from starting experience not Darnassian faction night elves at all.

[Tanaria]

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You are missing the lore here. While what you are saying can be true in normal circumstances, part of the agreement of the shen'dralar joining up with the Darnassians was that they keep their culture, they decide on magical matters and they pick new candidates that join them as Highborne. This is in Wolfheart.

Theya re not just tarining daranssians for "daranssiasn society" theya re rebuilding the caste and increasing their depleted numbers. They are also keeping to their own caste structures and systems, which is different in it's own right from normal non-highborne kaldorei, and has laways been although the degree of difference has varied based on what period you are looking at.

Every Night elf mage a part of Darnassian society is Highborne, whether Shen'dralar, or a returned old Darnassian Highborne or a new novice.

The Night elf mage you play is a highborne, but not a shen'dralar Highborne, but either a brand new novice or a returned Highborne. Ofc you can decide that you're playing a Shen'dralar, up to you ,Chris Metzen himself said if you want to be a 10k year old arcane maestro Shen'dralar you can be, although that is not the levelling experience version.

Danuser again confirms this recently, that you decide who in lore your character is ultimately, character opening narrative and cinematic is not there to limit your option, it just provides a generalised version. When you think about it, not all night elves you play are even Darnassians, the Illidari demon hunters are from starting experience not Darnassian faction night elves at all.

So the Highborne truly aren't the big "I am" anymore then, as the Highborne descendants of Quel'Thalas easily defeated their constructs.

If your trying to make a case for the Highborne being good, then this isn't it.

[Varodoc]

It would be nice to see what the pre-sundering society is like

There's this city called "Suramar" which shows exactly that. It's also been in the game for 4 years.

[Tanaria]

There's this city called "Suramar" which shows exactly that. It's also been in the game for 4 years.

Also a place called Azsuna - if Suramar doesn't cut it for you.

[Varodoc]

Also a place called Azsuna - if Suramar doesn't cut it for you.

Azsuna is a bunch of ruins that doesn't convey the feeling of "pristine pre-War of the Ancients society" at all. There's like one house in the entire zone that isn't ruined and that's it.

[Tanaria]

Azsuna is a bunch of ruins that doesn't convey the feeling of "pristine pre-War of the Ancients society" at all. There's like one house in the entire zone that isn't ruined and that's it.

But it shows old Highborne structures, just in case your that way inclined.

[Lahis]

But it shows old Highborne structures, just in case your that way inclined.

Suramar has those structures intact.

[Tanaria]

Suramar has those structures intact.

True - suppose Azsuna gives extra.

[ravenmoon]

There's this city called "Suramar" which shows exactly that. It's also been in the game for 4 years.

Given that you are referring to society i.e. peoples and not buildings. Suramar is the highborne centric portion of pre-sundering society, similar to what the Shen'dralar would have lived like. Buildign wise ofc it is 100% showing exactlywhat a pre-sundering city is like, because that is what it is.

Full pre-sundering society (people now) would have had the priest caste in a major role and influence as well as other factors for m different portions of life, the naturists, who would be druids in the post-vigil era, would have also influenced the culture in the pre-sudnering time, though their numbers and followers of Cenarius were in a steady decline fading to legendary by the tiem of the 1st invasion - there revere for the wilds would have been a part of normal culture- this would also be absnet in both post-sundering Suramar and Eldre'thalas - which is a pure highborne city (

please read fully what I wrote above - I took time going into detail with the information on what we have then exploring different possibilities fo what it might mean.)

The culture the NIghtborne preserve pristinely (according to the quest) is the Highborne caste culture of hte pre-sundering era and therefore not the full pre-sundering culture.

Think of the night elves post culture to have split into 3 separate entities after the sundering.. the Highborne group (hidden in Eldre'thalas and Suramar), the Druidic culture working with the Green draong flight and wild gods - they're sleeping in barrowdens, for 1000 of years at a time, and suppressing magic on Kalimdor (magically, along with the Cenarions, also hiding the continent. Then the Order of Elune, now they are what is left of the old Kaldorei society, they adapt to the new circumstances, doing with nature magic and normal nature what was generally done with arcane magic - however htere isn't much to do as far as normal life is concerned, because this period is not "normal" life - this is a vigil - they aremed to the teeth, constantly patrolling they ahve a duty, they are living like immortal guardians, patrolling for rogue society mages, mage cheats flouting the ban, Satyrs causing havoc and trouble, , left over malevolent entities etc.


The High elves on exile become a race of Highborne we now call high elves, these Highborne were part of the new Kaldorei post vigil society that was priest led, their purpose obsolete as Highborne due to the ban, which is why many would have found other things to do like go into druidism ( If I were to choose anywhere spellbreaking was to emerge from, it would be here - unable to use the arcane, and not going into druidism, you can develop anti-spell abilities to fit the function of stopping rogue mages and satyrs from trying to summon the legion., Highborne who didn't choose druidism would be most likely to side with Darth'remar, whereas those that did would have stayed on with the long vigil group - I suspect for the first 3,000 years, there were no "Highborne" quote on quote, they become called that again because they want to restore society and most of them were the palace Highborne group. It also explains why most of the followers would have a certain look, it was probably Darth'remar's household and closest friends and colleaugues, who'd have shared a close bond, not just because they were Highborne, but because they had worked together, I imagine they would be a bit more distant from other former Highborne from other parts of the empire that were with the resistance, including Suramar Highborne that were with the resistance)


Post WC3, which is post long vigil, - the 3 groups are finally re-united when the ban on Highborne is lifted from the kaldorei, and the Shen'dralar are accepted back into society and start rebuilding the caste. However this time, the distribution is far different, they are a minority, and society is not orientated around arcane leadership, but priestly leadership. It is a different culture than pre-sundering times, but I don't think it is as wildly different as some people are assuming. They assume this because they look at druid culture but don't understand that culture varies in rural and urban areas, and actually other factors too like religion and leadership .. culture is often a mixture of different sub-cultures. When Elun'dis was founded, before the establishment of the night elf monarchy (if there was such a time) I can imagine the priest caste led, like is the case amongst the Zandalari trolls. AFterall it is Elune that is discovered from studying the Well, and it's desire to discover more of her that excites the night elves into studying the well further and developing the study of the arcane that will birth the mage order as this magical force has many practical useful and beneficial applications, while the priests are more focused on spiritual implications faith based implications, healing and health, longevity of life, and knowing the Goddess.

So in many respects a return to Kaldorei society but priest led, with arcane and druidic influences is more akin to earlier kaldorei pre-sundering society than the one around the time of the invasion that has a whole world and you would imagine quite a large varying degree of cultural importance in various sectors - as mages, the Highborne caste would be similar all over empire wide, being able to travel magically would be an enormous advantage in that, meanwhile you can imagine forest cultures of naturists (pre-druids) would be mostly forgotten by many of the city folk if they were still around - which Cenarius confirms to Malfurion in WotA some are), but it is not mainstream at all at this point.

I could go on and on, but lest stop here for now.

[Tanaria]

The High elves on exile become a race of Highborne we now call high elves, these Highborne were part of the new Kaldorei post vigil society that was priest led, their purpose obsolete as Highborne due to the ban, which is why many would have found other things to do like go into druidism ( If I were to choose anywhere spellbreaking was to emerge from, it would be here - unable to use the arcane, and not going into druidism, you can develop anti-spell abilities to fit the function of stopping rogue mages and satyrs from trying to summon the legion., Highborne who didn't choose druidism would be most likely to side with Darth'remar, whereas those that did would have stayed on with the long vigil group - I suspect for the first 3,000 years, there were no "Highborne" quote on quote, they become called that again because they want to restore society and most of them were the palace Highborne group. It also explains why most of the followers would have a certain look, it was probably Darth'remar's household and closest friends and colleaugues, who'd have shared a close bond, not just because they were Highborne, but because they had worked together, I imagine they would be a bit more distant from other former Highborne from other parts of the empire that were with the resistance, including Suramar Highborne that were with the resistance)


I could go on and on, but lest stop here for now.

Well Dath'Remar must have had a lot of close friends, family and colleagues then, considering he and his Highborne were able to hold off the Amani, whilst establishing Silvermoon and the Sunwell.

And lest we forget about Sensiria's husband, where apparent news of the Highborne exile had reached the ears of House Shen'dralar as he was readying himself to leave with Sunstrider, but Sensiria corrupted him.