There's no room for PoE-like games

[cparle87]

Wow, I'm just speechless. Have you thought of posibility that maybe Poe is popular because it's a good game? If D4 will be good then it will be popular as well.

Have you looked at these forums and the massive hate boner a lot of people have for Blizzard? Being able to stick it to them by playing a clone of Diablo 2 not made by them would get them frothing and raring to go. Especially if they could then come on here and rant about how much better it is than its inspiration.

[Vasilisa]

Have you looked at these forums and the massive hate boner a lot of people have for Blizzard? Being able to stick it to them by playing a clone of Diablo 2 not made by them would get them frothing and raring to go. Especially if they could then come on here and rant about how much better it is than its inspiration.

I agree that there is a vocal group hating Blizzard. Still, it isn't a crusade. If Diablo 4 will be good game this group will hide their hate under their asses and go play Diablo 4. Especially it'll probably be released later then Poe 2 so there won't be real "release competition" and Diablo 4 will bring a breeze of freshness.

[Fencers]

poe is only popular because there is a large group of people whose sole identity is being a contrarian and hating on triple a devs like blizzard, and care about things like blizzard pr being "woke" the same reason people hate epic is because sweeney is left leaning but epic overall i think is pretty consumer friendly and actually pays game devs more than steam, so much for the supposed care about "gamerZ" from the contrarians

There a lot of people who play Path of Exile and have no idea or care about the Blizzard-related stuff you are claiming. What a dumb statement.

[kail]

poe is only popular because there is a large group of people whose sole identity is being a contrarian and hating on triple a devs like blizzard, and care about things like blizzard pr being "woke" the same reason people hate epic is because sweeney is left leaning but epic overall i think is pretty consumer friendly and actually pays game devs more than steam, so much for the supposed care about "gamerZ" from the contrarians

It's difficult to make sense of this.

[Sorshen]

poe is only popular because there is a large group of people whose sole identity is being a contrarian and hating on triple a devs like blizzard, and care about things like blizzard pr being "woke" the same reason people hate epic is because sweeney is left leaning but epic overall i think is pretty consumer friendly and actually pays game devs more than steam, so much for the supposed care about "gamerZ" from the contrarians

You're fucking clueless.

[Nitrax]

I played D3 for years but PoE I was bored at before story concluded. Anyway I think the move to detailed 3D hurt hack and slash genre because everything looks so ”clean”. From what Ive seen of D4 that also looks polished and not very ”gritty”.

[exochaft]

If there is a downside to PoE, it's pretty intimidating if you're new to the game at this point. Heck, even just looking at the skill tree for a new player would probably overwhelm them, let alone all the different end-game goals/content, skill/gem combos, etc. Regardless, the game is still pretty popular, even if I feel that every new major content cycle gets buggier and less stable... although the turnaround time on fixes isn't too shabby.

Hack-and-slash ARPG's is still fine as a genre, the problem is that many more recent hack-and-slash ARPG games have been lackluster or a buggy mess. We're currently in a gaming age where early-access and Day 1 patches are considered acceptable as release content, likely because consumers are willingly throwing money at inferior products and not expecting more from developers. That isn't to say that an early access game can't be good and not feel like you're getting ripped off (kind of like Valheim being early access yet probably more stable and less buggy than many AAA games on launch), but such games are more of an exception instead of the rule.

That being said, I hope PoE2 and D4 are both highly successful games, as that would be great for gamers. The fact that they're both ARPG's will have less to do with their success compared to whether the games launch in a good state while offering good gameplay and fun for players.

[StillMcfuu]

poe is only popular because there is a large group of people whose sole identity is being a contrarian and hating on triple a devs like blizzard, and care about things like blizzard pr being "woke" the same reason people hate epic is because sweeney is left leaning but epic overall i think is pretty consumer friendly and actually pays game devs more than steam, so much for the supposed care about "gamerZ" from the contrarians

A good chunk of POE's early success was built largely on it not being D3. I think the paradigm has shifted a bit though. Where early D3 was more difficult and harder to get into and that drove people away, D3 started to get a lot easier with both Loot 2.0 and RoS updates, and that drove players away too.

It's definitely unfair to say it's success is tied to D3 in the last 5 years or so. But POE's existence is definitely tied to D3 and people's opinion of it.

I think the biggest take away from threads like these is PoE has built enough of a fan base that it will survive D4 and D2R. Both D4 and D2R will be wildly more successful than PoE, but there is plenty of space in the ARPG field for more than 1 major franchise. PoE is making it's case to be the second franchise, although it's really going to need to improve in PoE2 to reach that goal.

[cparle87]

I agree that there is a vocal group hating Blizzard. Still, it isn't a crusade. If Diablo 4 will be good game this group will hide their hate under their asses and go play Diablo 4. Especially it'll probably be released later then Poe 2 so there won't be real "release competition" and Diablo 4 will bring a breeze of freshness.

Take a look around. There's numerous posters with tens of thousands of posts who do nothing but slam Blizzard on every possible topic. PoE is pretty much no different from a private server. The ability to play a Blizzlike game without actually supporting Blizzard, or "sticking it to the man" as they would probably think they're doing.

[MikeHeel]

Good games will do good, of any genre with the right amount of exposure. D3 did good at launch, then when people realized the game sucked, most quit fast but the Blizz fanboys.

[cparle87]

A good chunk of POE's early success was built largely on it not being D3. I think the paradigm has shifted a bit though. Where early D3 was more difficult and harder to get into and that drove people away, D3 started to get a lot easier with both Loot 2.0 and RoS updates, and that drove players away too.

It's definitely unfair to say it's success is tied to D3 in the last 5 years or so. But POE's existence is definitely tied to D3 and people's opinion of it.

I admitted didn't play D3 when it was early, so I can't comment on its difficulty. But as for the paradigm shift you mentioned I'm not sure. I'm guessing you're saying people didn't like D3 because it was so different than D2. But from what I remember picking D2 up again recently is that it's actually very hard to start off that game from nothing.

[Verdugo]

Take a look around. There's numerous posters with tens of thousands of posts who do nothing but slam Blizzard on every possible topic. PoE is pretty much no different from a private server. The ability to play a Blizzlike game without actually supporting Blizzard, or "sticking it to the man" as they would probably think they're doing.

Imagine being this delusional, that only Blizzard can make the "right" game. You accuse others of being haters, but you yourself are extremely toxic against any poster that doesnt worship Blizzard.

[cparle87]

Imagine being this delusional, that only Blizzard can make the "right" game. You accuse others of being haters, but you yourself are extremely toxic against any poster that doesnt worship Blizzard.

And here's one of them now. Good job putting words in my mouth. Why don't you take a look at my signature. I believe there was a poster here who had the sig "I'm not a defender of Blizzard, I'm an opponent of stupid." If you can't be rational enough to accept that something you don't like isn't bad. You're like that "stop liking what I don't like" kid from the meme.

[Vasilisa]

Take a look around. There's numerous posters with tens of thousands of posts who do nothing but slam Blizzard on every possible topic. PoE is pretty much no different from a private server. The ability to play a Blizzlike game without actually supporting Blizzard, or "sticking it to the man" as they would probably think they're doing.

If you look at this that way then Mmo-champion is no different from private server as well. You overestimate their attachment. If any of these games (Poe2 or Diablo 4) will be good then people will play them. Maybe except some vocal minority who will find new excuse to keep whining.

[Verdugo]

I believe there was a poster here who had the sig "I'm not a defender of Blizzard, I'm an opponent of stupid."

I remember him, I also remember him being extremely toxic just like you, glad to see who influenced you.

[cparle87]

If you look at this that way then Mmo-champion is no different from private server as well. You overestimate their attachment. If any of these games (Poe2 or Diablo 4) will be good then people will play them. Maybe except some vocal minority who will find new excuse to keep whining.

Yeah, I've already been attacked by one of them in this very thread within minutes of posting. They can't deal with the fact that other people like or even don't hate the things that they hate. Do people not understand what subjectivity is anymore?

- - - Updated - - -

I remember him, I also remember him being extremely toxic just like you, glad to see who influenced you.

"Toxic". Is that your go to ad hominem that you throw around to dismiss the arguments of anyone who doesn't share your worldview? Like those guys who are losing an argument so they call the other person a "Nazi" or a "racist" as if it was an I-win button.

[Verdugo]

Yeah, I've already been attacked by one of them in this very thread within minutes of posting. They can't deal with the fact that other people like or even don't hate the things that they hate. Do people not understand what subjectivity is anymore?

Being able to stick it to them by playing a clone of Diablo 2 not made by them would get them frothing and raring to go. Especially if they could then come on here and rant about how much better it is than its inspiration.

Did you personaly post the second quote?

Like those guys who are losing an argument so they call the other person a "Nazi" or a "racist" as if it was an I-win button.

Oh, you are one of those.

[StillMcfuu]

I admitted didn't play D3 when it was early, so I can't comment on its difficulty. But as for the paradigm shift you mentioned I'm not sure. I'm guessing you're saying people didn't like D3 because it was so different than D2. But from what I remember picking D2 up again recently is that it's actually very hard to start off that game from nothing.

I'm specifically speaking about D3 more than D2. When D3 released it was a difficult game that required a bit of a time sink. Especially the loot. D3 on release was the game a lot of very vocal people will say is what they want. It was difficult with a learning curve. It didn't water down its difficulty levels and was very D2esque in only having a few difficulties to step through. Gearing was Rares were more powerful than Leggos, Leggos had special effects, but well rolled rares is what you wanted. The only thing it lacked was a tree, but it had the rune system and honestly Blizz at that point had moved past trees seeing them for the fairly inflexible system that it is. Even PoEs tree is largely an illusion, people know where they are going with points.
Regardless D3 was a hard game, the one arpg fans generally ask for, and thats where the criticism came in. Every decision since then has made the game more "casual friendly" and I'm not trying to knock that, but the game is fundamentally a different experience now. Its really a Tale of 3 Games. You have release D3 which was a hard, unforgiving title with D2 esque gearing (although some deficiencies in finding gear ie d2 you know where to go for certain items, d3 missed that), loot2.0 d3 which made leggos the main focus and stripped the game of the rares being better meta, and ros which went full in on sets meta and gear.
PoEs release poached a lot of players from early D3 because of how difficult the game was, but as time wore on PoE has become the perceived "hardcore" arpg vs D3 which had become a more casual experience. And all of this happened a fair time back. PoE is its own game now, but it still suffers from Diabloitis. Granted Diablo essentially invented the genre, but constant threads like these isn't helping PoE. We don't look at CoD as crappy counter-strike, CoD is a different game, able to stand on its own.

Back to make a tldr answer for the paradigm shift. Early D3 was too hard for the majority of players and thats the world that PoE released into and gained traction in. As time wore on with Loot2.0 and RoS, D3 took on a more pick up and play casual stance, where PoE was looked at as the "non-casual" game because of the tree. Thats the paradigm shift.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I don't know who needs to hear this but:

It's okay to like a game

It's okay to not like a game

It's okay to say why you prefer Game X over Game Y.

What's not okay is to attack another person because they prefer Game Y over Game X.

[Utrrabbit]

I don't think there is room PoE-like games (hack and slash). Chaosbane wasn't that succesful and D3 was also fail. Can't see how D4 is going to success.

PoE is trash. I tried it for like 20 minutes before deleting that garbage. It looks and plays like the worst game I have ever seem.