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  1. #21
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharby View Post
    I feel like they should just bring back stat templates.



    PvP to me should never be about gear outside of a <= 10% difference between good and average geared players. It should be almost entirely skill based.



    A freshly maxed good player will get absolutely crushed by a meh player with good gear, which shouldn't happen imo.
    Removing the impact of gear from an RPG is something that should never happen. If you want that kind of PvP there are other games for that.

    Stat templates were awful for several reasons, most importantly they removed the ability to pick your own secondary stats, which was atrocious, especially after coming from MoP and WoD where we could buy specific pieces of gear with the stats we wanted off a vendor. If you wanted to stack versa,tility, you could do that, if you wanted to stack haste, you could do that, no RNG, no luck, you just do it... But also they eliminated gear progression from half of the game, it's an RPG, gearing is part of RPGs and stats on gear is a big part of character customization, if you don't like that you should play SMITE for your PvP or something.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2020-05-12 at 06:56 PM.
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  2. #22
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akibaboy View Post
    No. You're playing a bonus feature of the game that was added in after the fact to extend play time. WoW is a PvE game that allows you to PvP.

  3. #23
    Bloodsail Admiral Sharby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    Removing the impact of gear from an RPG is something that should never happen. If you want that kind of PvP there are other games for that.

    Stat templates were awful for several reasons, most importantly they removed the ability to pick your own secondary stats, which was atrocious, especially after coming from MoP and WoD where we could buy specific pieces of gear with the stats we wanted off a vendor. If you wanted to stack versa,tility, you could do that, if you wanted to stack haste, you could do that, no RNG, no luck, you just do it... But also they eliminated gear progression from half of the game, it's an RPG, gearing is part of RPGs and stats on gear is a big part of character customization, if you don't like that you should play SMITE for your PvP or something.
    I don't care for WoW PvP outside of casual shit for that very reason, I dislike gear overtaking skill for the most-part because it ruins the integrity in my opinion.

    There's nothing stopping them from improving on the template system to make it more customizable, furthermore PvP isn't half the game, its a quarter at best. The progression system for PVP should be ratings.


    Of course this is all my opinion. And you are right if I don't like it I shouldn't play it, which I don't lol.
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  4. #24
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Nobody should have to do content they don't enjoy to be competitive in content they do enjoy. This was done best in MoP/WoD. Besides the legendary cloak quest requiring two BGs if you want to nitpick.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Recovery View Post
    Can we please put resilience back on gear so that im not forced to do pve if i dont want to. I dont care for mythic+. I dont care for raiding. I just want to pvp and i dont want to be at a disadvantage in my preferred area of the game just because i dont want to participate in the part of the game that i detest.

    GRRRR
    And pvp gear should just have pvp power no other stats cause pve players don't want you to come pve with same gear. GL doing some world quests when questing gear is better than your pvp set.

  6. #26
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharby View Post
    PvP to me should never be about gear outside of a <= 10% difference between good and average geared players. It should be almost entirely skill based.



    A freshly maxed good player will get absolutely crushed by a meh player with good gear, which shouldn't happen imo.
    The progression between skill and gear lined up beautifully. As a fresh max level you were both unskilled and ungeared. As you got better gear you also got good. By the time you had full conquest you'd be a somewhat decent PvPer. If you wanted a skill-based fight you would simply find another player who had full conquest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Morssoe View Post
    And pvp gear should just have pvp power no other stats cause pve players don't want you to come pve with same gear. GL doing some world quests when questing gear is better than your pvp set.
    That sounds great to me. If PvP gear is BiS in PvP then a PvPer would never feel the need to do a world quest so that doesn't matter.
    Last edited by docterfreeze; 2020-05-12 at 07:14 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    That sounds great to me. If PvP gear is BiS in PvP then a PvPer would never feel the need to do a world quest so that doesn't matter.
    So just make a tournament server for pvp players.

  8. #28
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morssoe View Post
    So just make a tournament server for pvp players.
    That's the dream for arena players but what would happen to casual PvP?

  9. #29
    Mechagnome Recovery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morssoe View Post
    And pvp gear should just have pvp power no other stats cause pve players don't want you to come pve with same gear. GL doing some world quests when questing gear is better than your pvp set.
    Thats why if you want to pve, then youre more than welcome to do both. Pve groups DID NOT want you coming to raid in pvp gear when resil was a thing because you were missing secondary stats.. That is perfectly reasonable and fair to me.

    Your last statement was pointless.. I dont want to do world quests, nor should i be forced to. Therefore, my gear wouldnt matter. lol. If i did want to do world quests, dungeons, or raids, then i would get a set of gear for that as well.... Just like i did in BC, wrath, and cata. lol

    Theres no reason why there cant be 2 separate sets. Just farm both. IT wouldnt take any more time than it currently takes to gear a character with the crappy gearing system we currently have.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    That's the dream for arena players but what would happen to casual PvP?
    Im assuming casual pvp could still be a thing on regular realms. BGs and such are kinda irrelevant to people who want to be competitive in pvp. I feel like only the people who want to be cometitive would take advantage of a pvp devoted realm, which is what it should be anyway. lol. Blizzard will never do this though, because they dont want to split their playerbase.

    To be honest, i think sub counts are so low that... thats what caused them to force pvpers to pve.. I think pve players literally wouldnt be able to have solid groups without people who prefer to pvp. Just think about how many less players there would be in raid groups and mythic plus Qs if thye didnt HAVE to do it for gear to be competitive with those who want to do it.
    Last edited by Recovery; 2020-05-12 at 07:25 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Recovery View Post
    Your last statement was pointless.. I dont want to do world quests, nor should i be forced to. Therefore, my gear wouldnt matter. lol. If i did want to do world quests, dungeons, or raids, then i would get a set of gear for that as well.... Just like i did in BC, wrath, and cata. lol
    So, its WORLD of warcraft and you wish to turn it to arenas and bgs only? you never want to go explore or anything? If outside arenas there are mobs and you have only pvp power I think you would want to care.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Akibaboy View Post
    No. You're playing a bonus feature of the game that was added in after the fact to extend play time. WoW is a PvE game that allows you to PvP.
    "The only part of the game that matters is the one that I like".

    Go fuck yourself, you worthless piece of shit.

  12. #32
    Pls stfu

    10char

  13. #33
    Nobody forces you to PVE and you will be ranked accordingly if you don't

  14. #34
    Mechagnome Recovery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morssoe View Post
    So, its WORLD of warcraft and you wish to turn it to arenas and bgs only? you never want to go explore or anything? If outside arenas there are mobs and you have only pvp power I think you would want to care.
    I only want to pvp. I dont want to turn it into only arenas and bgs for YOU. I want you to play the game the way you like to. I want you to participate in the activities you like. I ask you to want the same for me. I only want to arena. Therefore, i shouldnt have to raid and do a million mythic plus in order to be competitive in the aspect of the game that i like. Likewise you shouldnt have to get a weapon from pvp in order to do your best damage in a raid.

    Also, the way resilience was done in the past, you had Stam and Int / str/ agi on the gear and then you had ONE secondary stat as well as resilience.. So it didnt make you usless in the world, but it did put you at a significant disadvantage in pve.. Which is a completely fair tradeoff.. Same can be said for pve gear... WIthout the resil, you took more damage in arena..
    Last edited by Recovery; 2020-05-12 at 07:31 PM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Recovery View Post
    Can we please put resilience back on gear so that im not forced to do pve if i dont want to. I dont care for mythic+. I dont care for raiding. I just want to pvp and i dont want to be at a disadvantage in my preferred area of the game just because i dont want to participate in the part of the game that i detest.

    GRRRR
    Yeah, I agree. But with one caveat. The need to ilvl normalize unranked bgs. That way obtaining pvp gear isn't completely unbearable. Leave actual ilvl to rated bgs.

    This is similar to how Destiny does pvp.

  16. #36
    I think pvp should just disable pve trinkets or other items that makes players feel mandatory to clear pve content. Pve side of things was fine in tbc and expansions where you only cleared raid for gear and had spare time to do pvp if you wanted for casually or get those few missing epic pieces.

  17. #37
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morssoe View Post
    So, its WORLD of warcraft and you wish to turn it to arenas and bgs only? you never want to go explore or anything? If outside arenas there are mobs and you have only pvp power I think you would want to care.
    It was hyperbole from the start to say PvP gear would cause you to struggle in world quests. The gear should be as it always was, BiS in PvP and entry-level for PvE. If you want to PvE you'd follow their progression system of WQ->dungeons->raid/m+ and if you want to PvP you'd go from casual to rated. Everyone is happy.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    It was hyperbole from the start to say PvP gear would cause you to struggle in world quests. The gear should be as it always was, BiS in PvP and entry-level for PvE. If you want to PvE you'd follow their progression system of WQ->dungeons->raid/m+ and if you want to PvP you'd go from casual to rated. Everyone is happy.
    If anything it may slow you down a bit. Pvp trades offensive stats for survival.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    If anything it may slow you down a bit. Pvp trades offensive stats for survival.
    one offensive stat. you could literally still be a full haste build destro lock spammin chaos bolts.. you just would have resil to give you more survival instead of mastery giving the bolts more damage. lol

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    It was hyperbole from the start to say PvP gear would cause you to struggle in world quests. The gear should be as it always was, BiS in PvP and entry-level for PvE. If you want to PvE you'd follow their progression system of WQ->dungeons->raid/m+ and if you want to PvP you'd go from casual to rated. Everyone is happy.
    That only worked cause raiders had spare time after clearing one raid mode while pvp was constant. If you add pvp gear now you just ignore pve player struggles being forced to play pvp for gear.

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