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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    BFA leveling was painful? that's new
    yeah,its really jarring feeling yourself geting weaker and weaker with every level,losing stats,losing legenderies,the artefact etc,the experience itself was fine but this is an inevitable part of wow,you cant just get to 100% crit etc and stay there with no feeling of progression in an expansions life

  2. #22
    It won't. Leveling might even be easier because they'll have to take in account the fact you don't have to do BFA and so you don't have to get HoA / traits to jump into Shadowlands so I believe it'll be balanced without traits, essences and stuff like that.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isiolia View Post
    It won't. Leveling might even be easier because they'll have to take in account the fact you don't have to do BFA and so you don't have to get HoA / traits to jump into Shadowlands so I believe it'll be balanced without traits, essences and stuff like that.
    Balanced yes, but if your corruption powers and azerite traits don’t work, you’ll still feel less powerful. Right now on a 450 Mage with absolutely no decent corruption items I can pull 10-12, maybe more? mobs at once and mow them down before I even have to recast Ice Barrier. Once SL launches that won’t be possible.

    That said, I don’t think it’s a bad thing; the only expansion that ever had you out gear the previous expac gear was BC, so it’s been well over 13 years since we haven’t been brought down to Earth, so to speak. Well, technically, well equipped raiders at the launch of LK didn’t upgrade until level 80, but by Cata they’d worked out most of the kinks. The last few expansions have seen us swap gear gradually over the 1st half of the leveling process, and I assume SL will be the same. I always felt losing the huge amounts of haste from previous expacs was the worst thing to experience, but ymmv.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    I don't know guys, if you tell me you did not feel the massive power decline between Legion and BfA than I don't know what to tell you. The issue was even addressed by Ion in a Q/A relatively early in the expansion.
    I know from another post of yours that you spent $200 on corruption, so I'm guessing you're fairly geared. The more geared you are at the end of one expansion, the more you will feel a loss of power leveling through the next expansion, especially with scaling zones. But it is not reasonable to expect you would continue to get more powerful anyway. There has to be some kind of reset with each expansion or you would have like 800% haste now. Maybe there is a more graceful way they could accomplish it, but I don't know what that would be.

    Also, I find this complaint thread pretty strange in general. Leveling has been easy AF for every single expansion and the time spent is completely insignificant compared to how long all but the most casual players would spend at max level.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    After seeing after yesterdays raid again how approximately 50% of my characters damage comes from Essences and Corruption and half his Rotation only works because of double Azerite Traits I fear that the leveling process in Shadowlands will be even more painful than in BfA. It was already terrible in BfA to get weaker every level without getting anything in return and it currently really looks like Shadowlands is repeating the same pattern.
    How are your experiences in the alpha there?
    I unsubscribed for most of BFA and I actually am pretty happy that I did. The catch up is atrocious, but with essences, azerite, flying, etc. it feels like playing an actual completed product instead of whatever that was we got at launch.
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    I don't really hate bfa, outside of the extreme rng and crap systems and garbage gameplay

  6. #26
    I can't imagine it'll be much worse than losing legiondaries transitioning out of Legion, they'll probably do something similar with corruption effects. This has been the case with every expansion though.
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    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
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  7. #27
    Well - given BfA levelling was awesome - I can only hope so OP.

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    Don't panic.

  8. #28
    I won't feel bad as I will finally play 2H dk frost again.

    + the thing I hated the most with BFA levelling was the overwhelming number of useless and not interesting quests like " kill 10 pirates " " kill the hurans " as it didn't really feel really new-expansion-ish. Drustvar was good tho.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Brostin View Post
    Are you really asking for people's experiences and then saying they are wrong because Ion said so?

    Vengeance Demon Hunter felt pretty much the same to be honest. Guardian Druid wasn't the best, but it still isn't because apparently being the worst at everything is acceptable.
    I asked for people's experience in Shadowlands, not in bfa

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    I know from another post of yours that you spent $200 on corruption, so I'm guessing you're fairly geared. The more geared you are at the end of one expansion, the more you will feel a loss of power leveling through the next expansion, especially with scaling zones. But it is not reasonable to expect you would continue to get more powerful anyway. There has to be some kind of reset with each expansion or you would have like 800% haste now. Maybe there is a more graceful way they could accomplish it, but I don't know what that would be.

    Also, I find this complaint thread pretty strange in general. Leveling has been easy AF for every single expansion and the time spent is completely insignificant compared to how long all but the most casual players would spend at max level.
    It's not about being hard or easy, its about feeling bad because you are weaker and because your character plays worse. The main principle of leveling is that you get stronger and not weaker.

    But lets ignore the power aspect and say getting weaker is fine. In that case it is still terrible when I suddenly have a lot of empty cooldowns or no interaction between abilities anymore, because legendaries/Azerite traits/Essences get removed. E.g. Beastmaster Hunter currently have a really nice interwoven synergy between base abilities (Autohits+Barbed Shots), Azerite Essences (Visions of Perfection), Azerite Zraits (Deaths Dance) and Corruption (the ability cd reset bow). All of that makes a not only very strong combination, it creates a _fluid_ rotation with abilities that interact with each other. This will be gone once Shadowlands hits.

    Again, this is just an example. Whole Rotations break and result in empty gcds and downtimes - that feels even worse.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    BFA leveling was painful? that's new
    Depends. I saw paladins and DKs two hitting mobs, meanwhile as a feral druid i had to go trough 2 complete combo building/spending cycle than i had to heal myself after every single mob.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by taishar68 View Post
    Balanced yes, but if your corruption powers and azerite traits don’t work, you’ll still feel less powerful. Right now on a 450 Mage with absolutely no decent corruption items I can pull 10-12, maybe more? mobs at once and mow them down before I even have to recast Ice Barrier. Once SL launches that won’t be possible.

    That said, I don’t think it’s a bad thing; the only expansion that ever had you out gear the previous expac gear was BC, so it’s been well over 13 years since we haven’t been brought down to Earth, so to speak. Well, technically, well equipped raiders at the launch of LK didn’t upgrade until level 80, but by Cata they’d worked out most of the kinks. The last few expansions have seen us swap gear gradually over the 1st half of the leveling process, and I assume SL will be the same. I always felt losing the huge amounts of haste from previous expacs was the worst thing to experience, but ymmv.
    I tanked Naxx-25, Sartharion and Malygos (the first tier of raiding in WOTLK, tier 7 and 7.5) in full T6.5 gear from SWP. It was just so much better than anything else available, due to perfect stats and triple gem-slots, as well as tier bonuses and WOTLK enchants being available to put on old gear - even if it was 40 item levels lower (SWP gear was ilvl 161, WOTLK heroic dungeon gear and Naxx-10 were ilvl 200).

  12. #32
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    I doubt it'll be as bad, since the HoA didn't affect you as much as your artifact did and there won't be any legendaries to loose

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by f4ncybear View Post
    It's actually gonna be worse in the long run since they are returning to linear leveling instead of pick a zone.
    Only for your first character, once you level an alt it'll be much more sandboxy.

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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    yeah,its really jarring feeling yourself geting weaker and weaker with every level,losing stats,losing legenderies,the artefact etc,the experience itself was fine but this is an inevitable part of wow,you cant just get to 100% crit etc and stay there with no feeling of progression in an expansions life
    That's always been a thing, though. It's not new with BFA. Going from Wrath to Cata was especially nasty since Wrath was the last time you could do things like the armor and crit hard caps.
    One of the most difficult things for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    I asked for people's experience in Shadowlands, not in bfa
    Ok so I will put you down as a no you don't accept people's responses. I quoted you and you kinda just changed directions and didn't answer the question.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    That's always been a thing, though. It's not new with BFA. Going from Wrath to Cata was especially nasty since Wrath was the last time you could do things like the armor and crit hard caps.
    no,this started feeling really impactful from mop to wod,and it got exponentioaly worse by the xpac,in wrath to cata you actualy felt stronger because of the bonuses to specs added and the fact that skills scaled with levels for the first time

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Flevor View Post
    Alpha is making good progress,some specs still need work like shadow priest because it feels really terrible,most specs start to feel good in their base form without the borrowed power.

    but yea some specs do need some work so one can only hope
    Newsflash, shadowpriest leveling has been always really painful. I leveled SP since MoP each expansion to max level. Actually all classes so I have a little comparison.

    SP is just bad as it used to be, it has it's own category of being bad at leveling.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    It's not about being hard or easy, its about feeling bad because you are weaker and because your character plays worse. The main principle of leveling is that you get stronger and not weaker.

    But lets ignore the power aspect and say getting weaker is fine. In that case it is still terrible when I suddenly have a lot of empty cooldowns or no interaction between abilities anymore, because legendaries/Azerite traits/Essences get removed. E.g. Beastmaster Hunter currently have a really nice interwoven synergy between base abilities (Autohits+Barbed Shots), Azerite Essences (Visions of Perfection), Azerite Zraits (Deaths Dance) and Corruption (the ability cd reset bow). All of that makes a not only very strong combination, it creates a _fluid_ rotation with abilities that interact with each other. This will be gone once Shadowlands hits.

    Again, this is just an example. Whole Rotations break and result in empty gcds and downtimes - that feels even worse.
    So what would you do? How would you make a game and avoid the reset with each expansion and not end up with 400% haste (as an example)? I don't disagree that it feels bad (I always hate the loss of haste in particular), but I don't see a way around it.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    BFA leveling was painful? that's new
    Yes, going from 115 to 116 was an awful feeling if you had played legion

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    So what would you do? How would you make a game and avoid the reset with each expansion and not end up with 400% haste (as an example)? I don't disagree that it feels bad (I always hate the loss of haste in particular), but I don't see a way around it.
    I don't think it is avoidable but they might be able to mitigate it some by ripping the bandaid off earlier. DIsable corruption and essences in the pre-patch and really weaken us going in so that levels in SL feel like we're getting more powerful again.

    I don't know, it's a pretty hard nut to crack. But a lot of specs felt absolutely horrible in 8.0-8.1 even beyond leveling after losing legendaries, and it is something they absolutely need to think about.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    Was the leveling in bfa that terrible though? I agree with the regression of secondary stats/legendaries etc. but the experience itself? For example on an alt where you don't have that regression.?
    You are definitely right. It felt awful when leveling my main on launch, but that never really repeated itself when I leveled any of my alts.
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