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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    This PvP discussion reminds me of how I relatively recently decided to get Conflict and Strife rank 3 from 0.

    So I just rolled in with my Mythic geared Destrolock and 0 cr in some random 3s, in like half a day of random 3s PuGs I was 1700cr.

    It was especially hilarious in the beginning where I was there with my 600k HP vs some dudes who barely had a bit more than half that amount and whom I nuked for almost 200k CBs.

    After I got C&S I forgot PvP exists again. So my feedback is that for one if someone rocks mythic grade gear he really has no place in sub 1800cr matching, Blizz needs to take that into account somehow.
    Thank you! This is exactly what is wrong with gear PVE vs PVP. And your ideea about beeing placed in the 1800CR braket, I can dig with that. But still, all top PvPers have 90-95% of their gear PVE only. That says it all.
    Anyhow, thank you for your feedback, maybe it will sheed some light to those naysayers that there is no problem in PVP vs PVE gear and how they are alligned atm.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by lollerlaban View Post
    Not their problem you can't grasp concepts with multiple choices, derp. And your other specs are desireable in whatever content you're doing because you're not pushing top 5 mythic progression in the world, derp.
    Not anyone's problem you can't imagine solutions other than "Don't use tier sets", derp.

    And maybe my other specs aren't viable in the content I'm most interested in. Maybe I'm a main-tank for my guild, and they don't need another healer/DPS. Maybe I'm a healer, and my tank spec is useless to my guild. Derp.
    Quote Originally Posted by lollerlaban View Post
    Yes, that's literally what i'm saying. You think it's for fun they have to nerf previous tiers time after time after time? If the tier bonuses weren't absolute dogshit to begin with in entry tiers, because they HAD to make the next set stronger and the set after that EVEN STRONGER.
    Well, if you're just so close-minded that you can't possibly fathom any solution, that's on you. Derp?

    Note: I'm not giving a vote of confidence to Blizzard to do such a thing, but saying it's impossible is short-sighted.
    Last edited by Anastacy; 2020-05-16 at 02:25 AM.
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  3. #183
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    What does gearing accomplish in PvP other than give players with it an unfair advantage? Why is there power progression in a skill based activity? It doesn’t make sense. You can still get gear in PvP without it affecting the power balance. You should even be allowed customize your stat allocation to a degree to fit your play style, etc. But the power balance shouldn’t be messed with by allowing some players to have an advantage. It should always be a level playing field as much as possible.

    Forcing people to spend dozens of hours just to play how it’s intended is bad design and a huge turnoff for most. Not to mention unnecessary and bad for the overall balance. Yes, you don’t get prestige for it, which I get the feeling is what you really liked about the older system. Feeling special for having elite gear most others don’t and feeling more powerful in BGs.
    The system was completely fair. Players who put in the time to get good also got gear. The players who put in no time were neither skilled nor geared. There's power progression because it's WoW first and PvP second. You have to like WoW to like WoW's PvP, and liking WoW means you like progression systems. Again you make generalization about what WoW's PvP population wants with no proof. WoW players like getting gear, PvPers like skill-based encounters. The old system gave both to satisfy the WoW-playing PvPer.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Hear, hear! Arthas is the only reason this game became as popular as it did with Warcraft III. He's the face of the franchise. the Michael Jordan. The Babe Ruth. The Steve Austin. The Tiger Woods of this franchise, and all of Shadowlands should revolve around him. Whenever there is a scene not involving Arthas, every character should be going, "where's Arthas? What would Arthas think about this?"

    Frostmourne should be reforged into the Legendary of the expansion for Death Knights.

    The expansion should end with Arthas sticking a sword through Sylvanas belly, then proclaiming The Maw free.

    Then Arthas is welcomed back into The Alliance with open arms, and crowned King of The Forsaken of Lordaeron, but instead of getting back with Jaina, he puts a hand to her face and says, "sorry Jaina... I can't watch you do this," and strut over to Vereese Windrunner, and plant a big smooch and say "let's make some half high elf/human babies, baby," and BAM, playable High Elves and Half-Human customization.

    You know you want it, haters.
    I was going back and forth wondering if this was legit or sarcasm and honestly, I'm still not sure...

  5. #185
    I swear the biggest boomers ever make these types of threads
    Quote Originally Posted by Broken Fox View Post
    how about you think before typing stupid shit like this
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM_RUS View Post
    Go fuck yourself you brainless retard.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    While Illidan resolved in a good fashion, I'd say him making an appearance was Blizz throwing everything they got at that expansion after the whole WoD thing.

    I don't think they should push their luck with all these legacy heroes suddenly getting revived after they were supposed to be dead.

    But they're saying Arthas won't have a big storyline, it doesn't seem he'll get any considerable spotlight. It makes sense for him (and many others) to appear in the Shadowlands, what they'll make of him we're still to see, but I don't believe they're doing anything brash. It's worth pointing out that he's also the most recognizable antagonist in WoW.

  7. #187
    People saying you are not locked to the Azerite Armor...

    I have used the same Azerite Armor in 8.3 since middle of February. Can't get any better. Exactly the same as tier gear. You get the best and then you forget about it since those pieces are locked just like tier sets. At least with tier sets I could swap around if I got better off pieces. There is no off pieces for Azerite Armor. The only thing that is better is that it is 3 pieces instead of 4, but on the negative side you won't ever swap them.

    So whats the difference and why are Azerite Armor better in this regard?
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!
    Life is meaningless. It is in death we are truly tested.

    Let loot be loot.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    People saying you are not locked to the Azerite Armor...

    I have used the same Azerite Armor in 8.3 since middle of February. Can't get any better. Exactly the same as tier gear. You get the best and then you forget about it since those pieces are locked just like tier sets. At least with tier sets I could swap around if I got better off pieces. There is no off pieces for Azerite Armor. The only thing that is better is that it is 3 pieces instead of 4, but on the negative side you won't ever swap them.

    So whats the difference and why are Azerite Armor better in this regard?
    That's what I don't understand either. From Vanilla till Legion, Tier sets were an iconic part of the game. They worked. In OG vanilla as a 13yr old my 1st goal was to get full Wildheart on my druid from dungeon grinding. When I saw that 8/8 become yellow instead of grey I was ecstatic. Fast forward to tanking my way through 15 years of content, I look back at all my tier sets with fondness. Maybe it's different for us tanks? I mean, why would you NOT want to get and keep a good set-bonus, as a tank, if it meant you became a stronger and better asset to your raid team? Because it doesn't get replaced easily? So what? You don't raid to get gear, you get gear so you can raid, I thought that was a given, apparently not. The excitement comes from playing with your community, downing bosses, having fun, bantering on discord etc etc - loot/gear is simply the tool that allows you to do that without dying horrible deaths on each and every pull.

    Also, one of the best feelings in a raid is seeing your raid-mates get upgrades, and how happy they become. Have people become so selfish that they cannot share in the excitement of someone else getting loot? Guess what - when YOU are chilling at X/Y tier set, and something drops that you don't need cause you're X/Y tier set, it'll go to someone else in the raid! That someone else will be happy! And, ideally, so will you, cause your raid team just got stronger.

    It's like, why would you care that some of your armour slots are locked because you have obtained the *gasp* BEST POSSIBLE ITEM AVAILABLE FOR THAT SLOT!? Are we going FULL retard mode? Can people not play and work with set bonuses that have an impact on the rest of one's gear-set? I honestly can't understand, maybe it's different for DPS, maybe they want to see those stats go higher, but as a tank, tier-set bonuses often changed how you played your char. There was one set bonus in Legion that made Frenzied Regen have a base amount of healing done, even with 0 rage. That set bonus was amazing, for doing mah WQ's, my low lvl M+ keys, and no amount of +Agi/haste/crit/versa/mastery would be good enough to offset the fact that I got healed by Frenzied Regen while having 0 rage.

    Lastly, people forget 1 thing. Tier set bonuses were a way for Blizzard to balance out the output and performance of classes in specific tiers, without bringing sweeping changes through a patch with class-updates and class-changes. Fury Warriors are lagging behind in the DPS? No problem. Make their next tier set bonus a tiny bit better than everyone elses, and bring them up to par. Problem solved.

    From 8/8 Stormrage in Vanilla, to 8/8 Thunderheart in SWP, to 5/5 Lasherweave from ICC....tier sets were amazing. I honestly cannot see why people would want to see them gone, in the name of "less customization". Game has proved it was better, more popular, more engaging in the past when each raid had its own iconic tier, instead of being constantly bombarded with loot. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go back to Classic where my Choker of the Firelord form Ragnaros and my Mish'Undare, Circlet of the Mind Flayer from Nefarian won't get replaced till TBC-classic.
    Last edited by Dalinos; 2020-05-16 at 07:23 AM.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Tincjin View Post
    Jesus everytime one interview with Ion pops up, there are sudden 10 hate threads created...

    The way this guy drives the game, I am amazed there aren't 20 hate threads created.
    Last edited by DeusX; 2020-05-16 at 07:49 AM.

  10. #190
    I wonder why there has been no real wow killer, given that there are so many people out there that know better then Blizzard how to do it properly.

  11. #191
    Bla bla bla arthas boner bla bla bla

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    People saying you are not locked to the Azerite Armor...

    I have used the same Azerite Armor in 8.3 since middle of February. Can't get any better. Exactly the same as tier gear. You get the best and then you forget about it since those pieces are locked just like tier sets. At least with tier sets I could swap around if I got better off pieces. There is no off pieces for Azerite Armor. The only thing that is better is that it is 3 pieces instead of 4, but on the negative side you won't ever swap them.

    So whats the difference and why are Azerite Armor better in this regard?
    The main difference is the set bonus. You don't need 3 very specific unique Azerite pices that together form a bonus which you want unlike tier-sets. The problem with the tier sets was that usually maybe half the pieces had stats you didn't want, but together they formed the 4-set bonus and that made it worth it. I think tier sets were fine for a long time but with the addition of legendaries in Legion it definitely got pretty bad. Most specs had 1 of their bis legendaries be one of the tier-slots (whether that was helm, shoulders, chest, legs or gloves) and that meant the other 4 were carved in stone because you needed that bonus. There was just no way around it.

    Going from that to Azerite in BFA has been an improvement because the pieces aren't tied together and they are more like regular items where you replace them if you get a better one and you don't worry about breaking a tier bonus.

  13. #193
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    Yep, people blamed Chris Metzen a lot. Now we remember it foundly but the forums were set ablaze every now and then because of him.

    And now people say that he keeps talking like lawyer trying to drag his old job into his new, which is pathetic.
    Lets not forget Kalgan and Ghostcrawler for also getting all the shit in their time. As far as I remember with Kalgan it was the first time I saw these interviews from TV with dubbed over (or subtitles) jabs at class design...and ofc if you google him, right there is a "Why all the Kalgan hate" video from 2008

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DotEleven View Post
    I was going back and forth wondering if this was legit or sarcasm and honestly, I'm still not sure...
    It encompasses all....starts legit, ends in sarcasm...which makes it so good

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    Fuck Arthas, leave his story arc as it is, I don't want another fucking redemption story.
    Let old characters and story arcs be... create and introduce us to NEW characters.
    "There is no end to education. It is not that you read a book, pass an examination, and finish with education. The whole of life, from the moment you are born to the moment you die, is a process of learning." by Jiddu Krishnamurti, Philosopher and Educator

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    That's what I don't understand either. From Vanilla till Legion, Tier sets were an iconic part of the game. They worked. In OG vanilla as a 13yr old my 1st goal was to get full Wildheart on my druid from dungeon grinding. When I saw that 8/8 become yellow instead of grey I was ecstatic. Fast forward to tanking my way through 15 years of content, I look back at all my tier sets with fondness. Maybe it's different for us tanks? I mean, why would you NOT want to get and keep a good set-bonus, as a tank, if it meant you became a stronger and better asset to your raid team? Because it doesn't get replaced easily? So what? You don't raid to get gear, you get gear so you can raid, I thought that was a given, apparently not. The excitement comes from playing with your community, downing bosses, having fun, bantering on discord etc etc - loot/gear is simply the tool that allows you to do that without dying horrible deaths on each and every pull.

    Also, one of the best feelings in a raid is seeing your raid-mates get upgrades, and how happy they become. Have people become so selfish that they cannot share in the excitement of someone else getting loot? Guess what - when YOU are chilling at X/Y tier set, and something drops that you don't need cause you're X/Y tier set, it'll go to someone else in the raid! That someone else will be happy! And, ideally, so will you, cause your raid team just got stronger.

    It's like, why would you care that some of your armour slots are locked because you have obtained the *gasp* BEST POSSIBLE ITEM AVAILABLE FOR THAT SLOT!? Are we going FULL retard mode? Can people not play and work with set bonuses that have an impact on the rest of one's gear-set? I honestly can't understand, maybe it's different for DPS, maybe they want to see those stats go higher, but as a tank, tier-set bonuses often changed how you played your char. There was one set bonus in Legion that made Frenzied Regen have a base amount of healing done, even with 0 rage. That set bonus was amazing, for doing mah WQ's, my low lvl M+ keys, and no amount of +Agi/haste/crit/versa/mastery would be good enough to offset the fact that I got healed by Frenzied Regen while having 0 rage.

    Lastly, people forget 1 thing. Tier set bonuses were a way for Blizzard to balance out the output and performance of classes in specific tiers, without bringing sweeping changes through a patch with class-updates and class-changes. Fury Warriors are lagging behind in the DPS? No problem. Make their next tier set bonus a tiny bit better than everyone elses, and bring them up to par. Problem solved.

    From 8/8 Stormrage in Vanilla, to 8/8 Thunderheart in SWP, to 5/5 Lasherweave from ICC....tier sets were amazing. I honestly cannot see why people would want to see them gone, in the name of "less customization". Game has proved it was better, more popular, more engaging in the past when each raid had its own iconic tier, instead of being constantly bombarded with loot. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go back to Classic where my Choker of the Firelord form Ragnaros and my Mish'Undare, Circlet of the Mind Flayer from Nefarian won't get replaced till TBC-classic.
    I can understand the pros and cons with tier gear, but I just don't get why people say its different with Azerite Armor. It got the same issues. You get the best piece, then you won't replace them before the next tier. The reasons for Tier-gear being gone is offset by the Azerite Armor more or less.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    The main difference is the set bonus. You don't need 3 very specific unique Azerite pices that together form a bonus which you want unlike tier-sets. The problem with the tier sets was that usually maybe half the pieces had stats you didn't want, but together they formed the 4-set bonus and that made it worth it. I think tier sets were fine for a long time but with the addition of legendaries in Legion it definitely got pretty bad. Most specs had 1 of their bis legendaries be one of the tier-slots (whether that was helm, shoulders, chest, legs or gloves) and that meant the other 4 were carved in stone because you needed that bonus. There was just no way around it.

    Going from that to Azerite in BFA has been an improvement because the pieces aren't tied together and they are more like regular items where you replace them if you get a better one and you don't worry about breaking a tier bonus.
    But you worry about getting the best traits, and when you got the best traits you are done. You didn't "need"(of course you did) the set bonuses either, but same as Azerite, you want the best gear possible so the same logic applies there, and when you get that you are locked to it.

    I mean, I was kinda glad that tier-gear was gone as well, until shortly into BfA where I noticed it's the same thing more or less. The difference is so small it's not really game breaking. It's first now in Shadowlands that they really deliver on that promise. If they make the tier-gear which they have discussed, it will most likely be cosmetic only(one of the interviews lately, can't remember which one) and that I am fine with myself.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2020-05-16 at 08:21 AM. Reason: changed the need bit, because of course you need best gear!
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!
    Life is meaningless. It is in death we are truly tested.

    Let loot be loot.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    Yep, people blamed Chris Metzen a lot. Now we remember it foundly but the forums were set ablaze every now and then because of him.

    And now people say that he keeps talking like lawyer trying to drag his old job into his new, which is pathetic.
    Ion having a career as a lawyer is only positive. Then we have a game director that know how to talk to the higher ups people trying to convince him of crazy things like when Activision investor dude says: "Why don't you just put tier sets on the shop? My 17 year old daughter wants a tier set, but she has only played the game for 3 weeks because recruit a friend!"

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    I can understand the pros and cons with tier gear, but I just don't get why people say its different with Azerite Armor. It got the same issues. You get the best piece, then you won't replace them before the next tier. The reasons for Tier-gear being gone is offset by the Azerite Armor more or less.

    - - - Updated - - -


    But you worry about getting the best traits, and when you got the best traits you are done. You didn't need the set bonuses either, but same as Azerite, you want the best gear possible so the same logic applies there, and when you get that you are locked to it.

    I mean, I was kinda glad that tier-gear was gone as well, until shortly into BfA where I noticed it's the same thing more or less. The difference is so small it's not really game breaking. It's first now in Shadowlands that they really deliver on that promise. If they make the tier-gear which they have discussed, it will most likely be cosmetic only(one of the interviews lately, can't remember which one) and that I am fine with myself.
    Ι'll use a more cynical approach - the removal of tier gear also means much less art/animation resources used. It's different designing 10 different sets per raiding tier, than designing 1 Plate 1 Mail 1 Leather and 1 Cloth armour set.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    Ι'll use a more cynical approach - the removal of tier gear also means much less art/animation resources used. It's different designing 10 different sets per raiding tier, than designing 1 Plate 1 Mail 1 Leather and 1 Cloth armour set.
    That's my main grievance with it. I think the armor-sets in BfA has been lazy. Just lazy. The Season 1 and 2 pvp-sets from the Warfronts was a bit worked on, but the rest of them, tier-sets included except maybe Battle of Dazar'alor has been just bad.

    Seems they are meaning to improve that with Shadowlands as well. I think it's funny that they need to learn something so many times. People like cosmetic. Legion for instance had ton of it, people like to look good. Then we go into BfA and we get what we got. Azerite Armor is boring in that regard too. If you use pieces from the Titan Residuum vendor you have looked the same the whole expansion. But good thing we got transmog right.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2020-05-16 at 08:22 AM.
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!
    Life is meaningless. It is in death we are truly tested.

    Let loot be loot.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Hear, hear! Arthas is the only reason this game became as popular as it did with Warcraft III. He's the face of the franchise. the Michael Jordan. The Babe Ruth. The Steve Austin. The Tiger Woods of this franchise, and all of Shadowlands should revolve around him. Whenever there is a scene not involving Arthas, every character should be going, "where's Arthas? What would Arthas think about this?"

    Frostmourne should be reforged into the Legendary of the expansion for Death Knights.

    The expansion should end with Arthas sticking a sword through Sylvanas belly, then proclaiming The Maw free.

    Then Arthas is welcomed back into The Alliance with open arms, and crowned King of The Forsaken of Lordaeron, but instead of getting back with Jaina, he puts a hand to her face and says, "sorry Jaina... I can't watch you do this," and strut over to Vereese Windrunner, and plant a big smooch and say "let's make some half high elf/human babies, baby," and BAM, playable High Elves and Half-Human customization.

    You know you want it, haters.
    Still better story than BFA.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Lets not forget Kalgan and Ghostcrawler for also getting all the shit in their time. As far as I remember with Kalgan it was the first time I saw these interviews from TV with dubbed over (or subtitles) jabs at class design...and ofc if you google him, right there is a "Why all the Kalgan hate" video from 2008
    kekw...

    As a paladin main in Vanilla, let me link this gem from 2005 to you. We had this shit all the way from the beginning.


  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Kynario View Post
    Let old characters and story arcs be... create and introduce us to NEW characters.
    But.... this entire expansion is about bringing back old characters whose story arcs already ended.

    Because yes, people like Kael'thas and Vashj already had a definitive end to their character arcs, even if some people didn't like how they were turned into raid bosses.
    One shot, one kill. This is how I preserve my realm.

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