Seriously, f**k Hunters Mark

[wildcardNS]

Yes, let's prune more abilities. You guys deserve retail TBH.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Yes, let's prune more abilities. You guys deserve retail TBH.

As opposed to Classic where you've got 50 buttons but 1-3 are actually of use.

Asking for clever and engaging design of classes, like they used to do between WOTLK and MoP, =/= asking for a prune. The whole simpleton-attitude towards number of buttons to press = exactly the issue here.

[Saltysquidoon]

Yes, let's prune more abilities. You guys deserve retail TBH.

Go and look at SL enhancement shaman's 'kit' of unrelated disjointed abilities you only press because they exist to be pressed and have no impact on each other.

Not every ability has to be this deep galaxy brain manoeuvre that requires a subtle understanding of differential calculus to use properly that's innately woven into every other ability your class has.
But if the only reason your press most (or a significant minority) of your spells is because they exist and they have no impact on the rest of the kit and theoretically their removal wouldn't impact a spec's gameplay flow at all, maybe there is a discussion about class design to be had.

The prototypical example of this is; fireball, heating up and pyro. If fireball didn't heat you up would it ever feel good to press? It's the old complexity =/= depth conversation again.

[wildcardNS]

As opposed to Classic where you've got 50 buttons but 1-3 are actually of use.

You seem to really hate classic, which heartens me. It means I can play classic and not have to contend with the "great new gameplay" and people who want it. I can chill, wait for TBC, and then play IMO the ultimate version of the game. Keep your borrowed power, RNG loot collection game while you advocate for further pruning.

[Queen of Hamsters]

You seem to really hate classic, which heartens me. It means I can play classic and not have to contend with the "great new gameplay" and people who want it. I can chill, wait for TBC, and then play IMO the ultimate version of the game. Keep your borrowed power, RNG loot collection game while you advocate for further pruning.

Thanks for proving my point for me. If you're not capable of grasping what's being discussed, don't try. You have fun in your museum though, even if it seems most enjoyment for those versions of the game comes not from gameplay but rather from cirkle-jerking over Retail and its fans.

[wildcardNS]

Thanks for proving my point for me. If you're not capable of grasping what's being discussed, don't try. You have fun in your museum though, even if it seems most enjoyment for those versions of the game comes not from gameplay but rather from cirkle-jerking over Retail and its fans.

Yes, insult me for having a different opinion. What a wonderful person.

[Beatman]

I love to use Hunters Mark.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Go and look at SL enhancement shaman's 'kit' of unrelated disjointed abilities you only press because they exist to be pressed and have no impact on each other.

Not every ability has to be this deep galaxy brain manoeuvre that requires a subtle understanding of differential calculus to use properly that's innately woven into every other ability your class has.
But if the only reason your press most (or a significant minority) of your spells is because they exist and they have no impact on the rest of the kit and theoretically their removal wouldn't impact a spec's gameplay flow at all, maybe there is a discussion about class design to be had.

The prototypical example of this is; fireball, heating up and pyro. If fireball didn't heat you up would it ever feel good to press? It's the old complexity =/= depth conversation again.

I think SL Enhancement will be used as a warning example in the future.

Any idiot can hit buttons that merely exist. Depth of a class' gameplay comes from how those abilities work together. BM has been memed all throughout BfA for "mashing buttons at CD", and now people are celebrating that exact attitude towards class "design" for SL?

I'll take actual design of the specs over simply filling a quota of buttons that you CAN press (but likely won't once min-maxing kicks in) just to fulfill some idiotic idea that more buttons = depth and fun gameplay. I hope that Alpha being so early means we're not seeing the full picture, but I wouldn't count on it.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, insult me for having a different opinion. What a wonderful person.

Having an ill informed opinion, coming in throwing generalized insults at anyone with said ill informed opinion as basis, then resorting to downright nonsense rather than meeting the arguments laid forth seems to have been your strategy here.

I couldn't care less about how some random nobody feels about me on the internet. If you share your opinion, be prepared to have it responded to. If you can't handle it, there are other forms of social media that lets you speak without challenge.

I'm done with you.

[TheRevenantHero]

You seem to really hate classic, which heartens me. It means I can play classic and not have to contend with the "great new gameplay" and people who want it. I can chill, wait for TBC, and then play IMO the ultimate version of the game. Keep your borrowed power, RNG loot collection game while you advocate for further pruning.

Well, he's right though. Classic had a metric fuckton of spells/abilities but there was no point to the majority of them. They didn't do anything, really. And talent trees were even worse with putting a point into a talent that did next to nothing but it's somehow better than retail because you have more buttons to press. It's the definition of simpleton game design. So I guess have fun with your illusion of choice in Classic. I'd rather retail not revert to the ways of Vanilla where you have a bunch of abilities that are just there to take up space.

[Gasparde]

Hunter's Mark is one of the most pointless abilities in the game.

Put it on the GCD and it feels like absolute shit - most of the time you won't even use it because wasting a GCD for a 5% dmg increase isn't worth it unless you're fighting something for like 30 seconds.
Take it off the GCD and you'll just macro it to basically every other ability without ever wasting a thought on it.

Make it a passive and tie it to something else or, even better, get rid of it entirely. Like, I dunno who's ecstatic about putting a stupid red arrow above a mob's head to deal 5% more damage - peak class fantasy/design right there.

[Okacz]

It would be nice if it was preserved tbh, maybe in a different form. 5% damage on GCD is the worst type of maintainance buff, out of GCD it's just additional hassle to macro it? Hey, how about it having 50% chance to not trigger GCD, so it would probably become the most annoying ability ever?

It would be a cool thing to have as a utility thing with some sort of cooldown. Nothing you need on your bars at all times, but something you would be glad to use on a specific occasion. Perhapse increase range of your abilities to 50 yrds, 1 min CD, 10s duration, only usable in combat? I would dig that. Just an ability you wouldn't need to use at all times, but would feel rewarded when you use it at the right time during a fight.

[unbound]

Good. I can feel your anger. ...and your journey towards the dark side will be complete.

Let's remove what little RPG elements remain of the game. Let's make WoW completely generic with only a handful of buttons that do anything anymore. A few more rounds of these things and WoW can be transferred to mobile.

/facepalm

[Saltysquidoon]

In what universe is a static 5% buff with 100% uptime you apply before combat an "RPG element"?

[Kithelle]

I feel like it used to auto apply via arcane shot...when did that stop?

This is SL, where they're trying to capitalize on the popularity of Classic by copy and pasting old mechanics from it without really considering how things work in the updated system. You think this is bad? They gave all Warlock specs Corruption with a cast time and only Affliction gets instant...they're literally copy and pasting this shit >.>

[Adam Jensen]

You seem to really hate classic, which heartens me. It means I can play classic and not have to contend with the "great new gameplay" and people who want it. I can chill, wait for TBC, and then play IMO the ultimate version of the game. Keep your borrowed power, RNG loot collection game while you advocate for further pruning.

None of us "retailers" or whatever you call us, "hate" classic.

What we do hate are the players like you who come to threads like this to sneer at us and act in a condescending manner. Seriously, if Classic players would just go off and be happy with Classic and stop jumping at every opportunity to the retailers how much better they are, then things would be great.

[Kithelle]

this is literally how it worked in MoP. no idea why they are going back to this archaic design

Just copy and pasting from Classic pretty much

[TheRevenantHero]

Good. I can feel your anger. ...and your journey towards the dark side will be complete.

Let's remove what little RPG elements remain of the game. Let's make WoW completely generic with only a handful of buttons that do anything anymore. A few more rounds of these things and WoW can be transferred to mobile.

/facepalm

Extra, useless buttons isn't an RPG element. Bringing back spells that the majority of the playerbase don't give a shit about is literally just to shut the Classic crowd up. Which is a dumb move since if they want those "RPG elements" so bad then they should go to Classic instead of ranting on the forums.

[Kithelle]

Good. I can feel your anger. ...and your journey towards the dark side will be complete.

Let's remove what little RPG elements remain of the game. Let's make WoW completely generic with only a handful of buttons that do anything anymore. A few more rounds of these things and WoW can be transferred to mobile.

/facepalm

LOL...even pruned most specs have more buttons to press in BFA then they do in Classic, slot fillers that you don't use /= more buttons. If all you want is eye candy then you can make fake macros and just use them to pretty up your toolbars.

[MrLachyG]

maybe instead of Hunters Mark they can change it to "Oh Hi Mark"

[BeepBoo]

Long term solution would be to make sure all the abilities have cool and meaningful immediate effect, but that would require more work than just fucking with some variables.

Not saying hunters are on this, but certain classes have always been delayed gratification. Aff lock most notably, rogue to a lesser extent.

I don't think pushing literally every class to be instant gratification design is what the game should do. It should attempt to retain some unique feel among the classes as far as how they do their jobs so people can pick and choose based on more than just aesthetics and "class fantasy."