Seriously, f**k Hunters Mark

[Ochinko]

Flavor is great. RPG elements are great. Utility is fantastic. Forcing me to spend a boring GCD that does no damage on every single primary target for an entire expansion is not OK.

/thread

There's nothing to be added beyond this point.

[Malikath]

Here's how you fix hunter's mark for general play, and pvp.
Applied by aimed shot and kill shot, counting towards that aimed shot or kill shot.
And you can keep the hunter's mark skill for applying to a rogue before they dismount and stealth from extreme range.
There, now it can be baseline and largely non-existent other then for what it as a singular spell is useful for.

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Flavor is great. RPG elements are great. Utility is fantastic. Forcing me to spend a boring GCD that does no damage on every single primary target for an entire expansion is not OK.

you plainly don't play this game if you don't know what utility the hunter's mark has both in keeping sight of stealth classes and marking out healers in PVP so that people can track them in the meatwad melee heavy PVP becomes.

[mrsohta]

It would still be annoying without GCD imo, never liked it personally. I wish it only worked for stealth instead of having a use in pve

[Hannya84]

An ability in an online video game physically hurts your stomach? You have some underlying health issues if that's the case.

It was clearly a figure of speech you absolute melon.

Hunters Mark is a garbage slow button. Fuck it isn't even good for tagging Rogues, it only really works on Druids.

[Gaidax]

you plainly don't play this game if you don't know what utility the hunter's mark has both in keeping sight of stealth classes and marking out healers in PVP so that people can track them in the meatwad melee heavy PVP becomes.

So, just make Hunter's Mark do just that without damage component?

I mean, not rocket science.

[Srg56]

The people who are asking for hunter's mark are the same people who are asking for fort and motw to come back.

I can prove this wrong right now. I'm not for motw or fort to make a comeback but i don't care if they do either. Buffs are what makes casters feel like casters and not just funny dudes in robes.

and honestly, when has a rogue being stealthed ever been a problem? Rogues have been able to self counter hunter's mark since tbc, and it's not like you can mark a rogue in arena since he starts the match in stealth anyway.

When have rogues being invisible and undetectable been a problem for opposing faction players? Since forever. Not sure if you're playing the same game as me. Rogues wasting vanish or cloak to clear the debuff is also a net positive for you no matter how you look at it.
Marking any class in stealth has never been the forte of hunter's mark, because you can't do it. It's about wearing them down by making them use their abilities to clear the debuff or applying more pressure to healers to dispel them that's always been the point of the ability. Hunters can even apply it if they see the rogues with track hidden. Again, i'm not sure if we're both playing the same game or if you're new to the game. No harm done either way, this just may prove educational for you if you're a new player.

The only way hunter's mark can be useful in pve, is if it were something like havoc. Otherwise it's a stupid bloat button that nostalgiababies are begging for and, pissing off people active players.

You're just unaware of it's uses in pvp it seems. Also, the game these days comes nothing close to being "bloated". Back in wrath, you used to need at least 50 keybinds to play hunter effectively, and it was a blast to have that many tools at your disposal. Nowadays the game feels like a kindergarten toy. One ability to build, another to spend, and some cooldowns. It's dull in that way, and i hope they go back to giving more options to all classes, except maybe demon hunters. That class seems to have been designed in a such a way that it's not very demanding in general.

[bullseyed]

Remove damage increase from it. Keep stealth detection. Then you have an ability that isn't always useful, but when you actually use it, it's meaningful.
Having damage increase on it just so that you use it on everything you attack is stupid and boring.

Hunter's mark is from D&D and intended to be used on the target you're focused on killing.

But most D&D encounters have multiple targets and most WoW encounters don't, so it's not super well designed for WoW.

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The ability's main purpose is to literally tag players you choose so you know where they are at all times, even if they turn invisible or go into stealth. It even shows them on your mini map. As much as i like interesting abilities which chain into others like combos in fighting games, some should just be simple but effective.

Generally the main purpose was for hunters to be a hard counter for rogues... which has literally never worked.

Hunter Rogue Warrior was supposed to be a rock paper scissors. Then rogue was made stupidly overpowered for most of the life of the game.

[Srg56]

Generally the main purpose was for hunters to be a hard counter for rogues... which has literally never worked.

Hunter Rogue Warrior was supposed to be a rock paper scissors. Then rogue was made stupidly overpowered for most of the life of the game.

Hunters absolutely countered rogues for the longest time. I'm not sure how removing tools that help them counter rogues prove that they couldn't do that. Between pets giving crit immunity and thus reducing opener damage, forcing vanish with them when blinded, having master's call give immunity to snares, scattershot and flare plus traps, having deterrence and disengage, hunters have always been a royal pain for rogues.

Sitting on a flare was something that made and still makes hunters immune to basic openers.

[Schizoide]

So, just make Hunter's Mark do just that without damage component?

I mean, not rocket science.

Yes, I posted that 3-4 times in this thread already. Admittedly it is a long thread.

[bullseyed]

Does having lots and lots of buttons make you happy? Does it not matter what those buttons do as long as there are many?
What do you even play in classic, frost mage? I swear, this is just talking for the sake of talking, you bring no argument for or against keeping it aside from "No cause i heard about this pruning and i heard it is bad"

He heard a streamer say pruning is bad, couldn't even come up with the idea himself.

[Asheeva]

Does having lots and lots of buttons make you happy? Does it not matter what those buttons do as long as there are many?

YES! Yes it does. It makes me happy to have a full action bar instead of a half-empty one. What's your point?

[bullseyed]

Hunters absolutely countered rogues for the longest time. I'm not sure how removing tools that help them counter rogues prove that they couldn't do that. Between pets giving crit immunity and thus reducing opener damage, forcing vanish with them when blinded, having master's call give immunity to snares, scattershot and flare plus traps, having deterrence and disengage, hunters have always been a royal pain for rogues.

Sitting on a flare was something that made and still makes hunters immune to basic openers.

Go ahead and link the seasons when hunters outnumbered rogues among gladiators.

We'll wait.

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YES! Yes it does. It makes me happy to have a full action bar instead of a half-empty one. What's your point?

You'll get that last LFR wing down someday, I guess.

[Sithalos]

I'm okay with it coming back. but it really shouldn't be on the GCD.

This.

I actually like Hunter's Mark, especially for PvP, but it feels like shit on GCD.

[Srg56]

Go ahead and link the seasons when hunters outnumbered rogues among gladiators.We'll wait.

Okay, this was unexpected. So i'm only arguing with arena players and raiders in this thread, with everyone else basically agreeing with me. You log in, you press the queue button, you log off. Okay, that's fine, but what about the rest of the players who don't play the game like you? What about the players who want to play a hunter and not a mage in chain mail?

Also i'm getting the distinct impression that i'm not arguing with people who play hunters as main or even alt characters, but people who either play rogues or druids, even mages. If hunter's mark has no impact on the game in any way as you claim, why be annoyed to this degree if it's in the game again? You didn't partake in the coding labor required to bring it back in the game's code. You just pay 15$ a month, and that's the end of your contribution.

I refuse to believe that there are people out there that collapse into feelings of dread at the thought of having more buttons to press in a video game. It's cartoonishly stupid and a caricature worthy of sitcoms.

[Eapoe]

Okay, this was unexpected. So i'm only arguing with arena players and raiders in this thread, with everyone else basically agreeing with me. You log in, you press the queue button, you log off. Okay, that's fine, but what about the rest of the players who don't play the game like you? What about the players who want to play a hunter and not a mage in chain mail?

Also i'm getting the distinct impression that i'm not arguing with people who play hunters as main or even alt characters, but people who either play rogues or druids, even mages. If hunter's mark has no impact on the game in any way as you claim, why be annoyed to this degree if it's in the game again? You didn't partake in the coding labor required to bring it back in the game's code. You just pay 15$ a month, and that's the end of your contribution.

I refuse to believe that there are people out there that collapse into feelings of dread at the thought of having more buttons to press in a video game. It's cartoonishly stupid and a caricature worthy of sitcoms.

Just to jump in for a second, and ask if you’re even going to answer is his/her post? Or are you just going to make an argument that doesn’t exist to try and dodge what he/she brought up?

[kappalol]

Most hunter changes are dogshit. Where is some blizz feedback? every class has one but hunters. Also, each time some changes goes on beta hunter is nowhere to be seen. Blizz totally doesn't know what to do with hunter. Remove changes on Aimed is 1st thing to do and give some interesting gameplay to BM and not just smash buttons every GCD. It's so stupid.

[shise]

You don´t even have to use it, make a macro..

[Specialka]

Okay, this was unexpected. So i'm only arguing with arena players and raiders in this thread, with everyone else basically agreeing with me. You log in, you press the queue button, you log off. Okay, that's fine, but what about the rest of the players who don't play the game like you? What about the players who want to play a hunter and not a mage in chain mail?

Also i'm getting the distinct impression that i'm not arguing with people who play hunters as main or even alt characters, but people who either play rogues or druids, even mages. If hunter's mark has no impact on the game in any way as you claim, why be annoyed to this degree if it's in the game again? You didn't partake in the coding labor required to bring it back in the game's code. You just pay 15$ a month, and that's the end of your contribution.

I refuse to believe that there are people out there that collapse into feelings of dread at the thought of having more buttons to press in a video game. It's cartoonishly stupid and a caricature worthy of sitcoms.

In which case would you need Hunter's mark outside pvp, raid or mm+ ?

When looking at how it is implemented, it reminds me of the flame's shock Shaman. You will need to weave it after an aimshot for it to be worthwhile on low hp target.
Obviously, it makes the hunter weaker on frequent target switch. It is only for MM or BM is affected as well ?

[Srg56]

Just to jump in for a second, and ask if you’re even going to answer is his/her post? Or are you just going to make an argument that doesn’t exist to try and dodge what he/she brought up?

You seem to not know much about arenas or actually think that his reply was a gacha moment. Hunters have always been a difficult class to rank up in arenas with and rogues have always had better synergy with almost every class except maybe warriors. Due to their toolbox, rogues are one of the best classes to do arenas with.

He initially changed the topic from hunter's mark being an effective tool to hunters not being very good at their supposed job, which was countering rogues, and he didn't specify anything else or go in depth. I then replied that hunters have plenty of tools to deal with rogues to which he again changed the topic to the hunter class not being very good in arenas compared to rogues.

In which case would you need Hunter's mark outside pvp, raid or mm+ ?

Personally, i don't mind constantly using the ability on every mob. I had it keybinded to Q and used it way before i even got in range of the target. Having an attack power boost on it always felt nice but i'm for removing it and keeping the rest of the functionality if others don't like it. For me, hunter's mark is mostly a pvp tool. In pve, it has much less use, except maybe for pointing out mobs to others. I hope you're not strictly equating arenas with "pvp" here. There's random battlegrounds and world pvp in which you really need it to prevent targets from escaping. That's the context in which i grew to appreciate the ability.

When looking at how it is implemented, it reminds me of the flame's shock Shaman. You will need to weave it after an aimshot for it to be worthwhile on low hp target.
Obviously, it makes the hunter weaker on frequent target switch. It is only for MM or BM is affected as well ?

As for it's implementation, i would point to the following post, earlier in the thread:

Remove damage increase from it. Keep stealth detection. Then you have an ability that isn't always useful, but when you actually use it, it's meaningful.
Having damage increase on it just so that you use it on everything you attack is stupid and boring.

I have nothing against this, because it keeps the function, without bothering others who don't want to keep using an ability that only provides an attack power boost outside PvP content.

[Specialka]

You seem to not know much about arenas or actually think that his reply was a gacha moment. Hunters have always been a difficult class to rank up in arenas with and rogues have always had better synergy with almost every class except maybe warriors. Due to their toolbox, rogues are one of the best classes to do arenas with.

He initially changed the topic from hunter's mark being an effective tool to hunters not being very good at their supposed job, which was countering rogues, and he didn't specify anything else or go in depth. I then replied that hunters have plenty of tools to deal with rogues to which he again changed the topic to the hunter class not being very good in arenas compared to rogues.




Personally, i don't mind constantly using the ability on every mob. I had it keybinded to Q and used it way before i even got in range of the target. Having an attack power boost on it always felt nice but i'm for removing it and keeping the rest of the functionality if others don't like it. For me, hunter's mark is mostly a pvp tool. In pve, it has much less use, except maybe for pointing out mobs to others. I hope you're not strictly equating arenas with "pvp" here. There's random battlegrounds and world pvp in which you really need it to prevent targets from escaping. That's the context in which i grew to appreciate the ability.


As for it's implementation, i would point to the following post, earlier in the thread:


I have nothing against this, because it keeps the function, without bothering others who don't want to keep using an ability that only provides an attack power boost outside PvP content.

Obviously, I would like to see the dmg boost removed and baked in the others abilities. And we could keep the utilities on it for pvp and pve.

That is what I was pointed out, quite subtly.