High Profile Youtubers DO NOT Speak for me.

[Levogames]

Preach is probably the most honest 'single-game insider' youtuber that actually has to maintain a relationship with one company that I have ever seen.

He doesn't run the overtly negative "X didn't die it was slaughtered" anti-hype train. Sure he has to kiss the ring a little to stay on the good boy list but he's still willing to call blizzard on its shit.

kiss the ring... more like su*ing di*

[Thestrawman]

kiss the ring... more like su*ing di*

It's the internet you don't have to censor yourself.

[Rilas13]

@kaminaris You're right... unless they call out eachother by name on twitter, youtube or twitch and say "We have the same viewpoint of this." Or you know.. just watch their content and see that they all respond to the same topics with their viewpoints but still say roughly the same thing... But sure if you just ignore that stuff then ya.

[Lahis]

maggots are very good for you actualy,and if we continue the way we do as a species,it will eventualy become the norm,generations from now people will look at you as crazy for thinking this was ''disgusting'',the same way people in the past looked at interacial mariages,history isnt on your side

Growing insect protein in clean environment is completely differrent thing from eating maggots out from the giant trashpile off your floor.

[Venziir]

athene is def the odd one out,he was a troll/joke channel and now is either a crazy cult leader or working for the cult leader

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dont bother,this person is just insanely salty that asmon makes 100 times more money than him by playing wow and has a gf hoter than this guys can even dream

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maggots are very good for you actualy,and if we continue the way we do as a species,it will eventualy become the norm,generations from now people will look at you as crazy for thinking this was ''disgusting'',the same way people in the past looked at interacial mariages,history isnt on your side

Cult Persona 101

[Aqua]

Talking like its fact and being incendiary/bold (up to you how you perceive that) was how they made their names but now they have such followings of echo chamber gibbering monkeys parroting their opinions for them as fact too, because those communities have forced out and suppressed dissenting opinions. That they now really buy into their own self righteous opinions like they're 200 times more important than any other WoW players.

Just relax, internet personalities all do it. And that's why even if you like one of them, be aware. Self reflect, remember you have your own opinions. One of the internet personalities I quite like and enjoy watching is Jim Sterling. Do I agree with every single little thing he says? Nah son. He's just fun to watch and often DOES say something of note (And I admire his persistence, he doesn't just trend chase, he chases those problems in the industry doggedly).

But SOME PEOPLE... do not do that self reflection and/or fully formed adult brains and are quite happy to clap along like sea world seals at the command.

[Gaidax]

I just think that there are way too many sheep following the chief goats on streams.

Youtubers and so on are very often off the mark and tend to jump on things, because like everyone - they get bits of info here and there from datamining, interviews and dipping toes in entry alpha. But, unlike everyone - they need to spin a tale (or 5) out of that to keep their channel going, so there is a lot of personal opinions that are often detached from reality going on

It's really like that clown Preach with his "hunters dead last in Nyalotha" crap a week before raid was out. Turns out the guy could not see beyond his nose. Same with many others, hardly gospel truth going on there.

[Agent Smith]

i find it hilarious you complain he is subjective and then continue to be subjective yourself and call it objectivity...

lower sub count (if we actualy had numbers, but i guess its a safe bet its lower than during wrath) OBJECTIVELY proves one thing - that less player are subbed thats it
it DOES NOT objectively mean game is worse than it used to be, as there IS NOT an objective answer to wheter a game is good or bad... what can you compare OBJECTIVELY is graphics, and thats pretty much it (not if its better, just higher quality, which can still be considered worse by some), everything else is purely subjective...
and there are thousands of reasons for people not to sub, and quality of the game is just one...

Subscriber count is a reflection of performance and interest. Im sorry, the sub count is not SUBJECTIVE, its objective.

You haven't shown me any proof that I was being subjective though. Still looking for it.

If I have a restaurant where 14 million people used to dine, then I changed things up and over that time my 14 million turned into 4 million, that should tell you that based on that data, my restaurant is no longer what it used to be, OBJECTIVELY speaking.

Do you want me to show you what objective and subjective is and do you want me to show you the data? Here this guy broke it down:

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._google_trend/

Why is this JUST an estimate? Because WoW subs were dropping so low, Blizzard stopped posting actual numbers:

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/act...-at-55-million
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/bl.../1100-6431943/
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...umbers-anymore

Im sorry to break it to you, and maybe its because you never actually owned a business, but when your customers stop buying your merchandise based off of changes you made, that is a direct correlation between their unhappiness with your "NEW" product/expansion and their unwillingness to pay you for trash.

[kaminaris]

@kaminaris You're right... unless they call out eachother by name on twitter, youtube or twitch and say "We have the same viewpoint of this." Or you know.. just watch their content and see that they all respond to the same topics with their viewpoints but still say roughly the same thing... But sure if you just ignore that stuff then ya.

No, you are wrong simply because you used to assume every streamer/youtuber has similar views of majority of things.
And I am pretty sure you don't know all of them, and you don't know half of the things they discussed.
Unless you spend all day watching every damn video they put online.

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If I have a restaurant where 14 million people used to dine, then I changed things up and over that time my 14 million turned into 4 million, that should tell you that based on that data, my restaurant is no longer what it used to be, OBJECTIVELY speaking.

And this is where you are completely wrong. It's not even up for discussion.
Because you don't know what the numbers would be if you didn't change anything. Might as well be 2 millions.

It is very easy to explain. Lets say you pump tons of cash into marketing creating artificial "boom" on some kind of dish.
Attract tons of curious customers during first year and then loose them over time as it wasn't really to their liking.

Lets say it was spicy dish and you ignored feedback of customers that say it's too spicy, never changed recipe.

Google trend estimation is not a data. It's a speculation.

Im sorry to break it to you, and maybe its because you never actually owned a business, but when your customers stop buying your merchandise based off of changes you made, that is a direct correlation between their unhappiness with your "NEW" product/expansion and their unwillingness to pay you for trash.

Sorry to break it to you but you have no idea how business works.
There are a tons of products that had their time and while nothing has changed, it simply died down.
Saying that it's the "unhappiness" that caused it is silly. You honestly have no clue. Not to mention 15 years is pretty damn impressive life for a game.

I suggest to read those topics:
https://www.dynamicbusinessplan.com/product-lifespan
https://hbr.org/1965/11/exploit-the-product-life-cycle


Does it look familiar?

[deenman]

Cult Persona 101

facts are scary

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Growing insect protein in clean environment is completely differrent thing from eating maggots out from the giant trashpile off your floor.

well yes ofc lol,wait...he ate maggots from the trash???wtf

[Unholyground]

I don't know why Bellular gets so much hate, he states many times it is his opinions and he knows that there are many players who feel differently. I think in general most of his ideas are coming from a place of good, I don't agree with everything but I like his insights on things.

WoW as a game just doesn't seem to know where it is going sometimes with their new ideas, or they try to hold onto something in spite of it being a bad mechanic.

[Lolites]

Subscriber count is a reflection of performance and interest. Im sorry, the sub count is not SUBJECTIVE, its objective.

subscriber count is objective sure, saying lower sub count means WORSE game is subjective as hell... as i explained (and you choose to ignore) whether the game is good or bad is PURELY subjective...

using your restaurant analogy, more people eat at McDonalds than at pretty much any non-fastfood (hell maybe even fast food) restaurants, does that mean food at McDonald is OBJECTIVELY best? or are there DOZENS OTHER factors?
more people drive volkswagen or volvo than ferrari, does that mean its worse car?
more people watch reality show rather than go to opera or ballet for their entertainment, does that mean reality show are peak of our culture?

btw, wow at some time in cata had over 100m accounts created, that means over 100m people tried it, yet it never had more than 12m (more or less) active players at any time, so MILIONS of people actualy left during vanila-wotlk, its just there still was a vast amount of people who have not yet tried WoW and who were wiling to, but more of those people dont just appear of thin air... i know people like you try to ignore this part of reality, as it dosnt push your agenda, but it is there...

as for me not having bussines, as an accountant i really hope you have NOTHING to do with any decisions that have financial impact, as i can see you have zero knowledge of basic economics...

[Chanches]

Fully agree. I wish Blizzard would implement more comprehensive feedback surveys from players as well as sizeable feedback groups for specific classes. Im sure thousands of players would volunteer time to provide feedback in detail if they simply asked and provided the platform to do that.

I do agree some youtubers say like Taliesin and Evitel, but dudes like Heels and Bellular have made a youtube career around hating the game no matter what, while Asmongold is clearly a frustrated person who lashes out at the game. His whole argument of "adding catch up mechanics and QoL improvements devalues my experience because I put so much time and effort in the game prior to the QoL improvements" misses the point entirely and is akin to saying "back in my day we didn't have all these QoL improvements therefore no one should get them now".

[ManOluck]

I think that was mostly the OP's point. Not that he gave his opinion on the matter, but that sometimes (most times?) youtubers tend to proclaim opinions as facts. He doesn't in fact speak for the playerbase, because the player base wants different things. He speaks for part of it (sometimes drives the opinion of others that don't have opinions on the matter yet, but that's a different subject).

So yes, the point stands:

When I said this :

... wow its almost like you didn't even read the post and just wrote random nonsense, I do in fact agree with a lot of what these players say, but the entire point of my post was to be very careful when talking about "what the players want". In fact you ironically confirmed everything my post intended to shed light on. Thank you.

I apologize for the quote, I meant to quote someone else. <3

[Piplupzero]

I don't think its fair to call Heels a WoW youtuber anymore. Seems hes just another "go woke go broke" gamer™ these days but he'd complain about the colour of the sky if he could give it a negative enough clickbait title.

[Starfals]

Duh. We are all people in the end of the day. We all can have different ideas or opinions. Youtubers, presidents, leaders, general and whatever else is there are ALL just people. Just like you and me.

Shocking, i know.


P.s. The same goes for actors and singers. That whole - `OMG OMGRG#$#$#$ its a MOVIE STAR!!!!!!!!!! DO WHAT THEY SAY CUZ THEY ARE LIEK RICH AND POPULAR` is total B S.

[InflaterMouse]

The obnoxious, basementdweller who lives in a litteral trashheap and eats maggots? Yikes....

Not sure you understand his position. Some people put on a show as well, some people don't like change and some people get into character. He should be past millionaire status at this point from YT and twitch...If I were him and read comments like this I would laugh all the way to the bank as well.

[ONCHEhap]

Not sure you understand his position. Some people put on a show as well, some people don't like change and some people get into character. He should be past millionaire status at this point from YT and twitch...If I were him and read comments like this I would laugh all the way to the bank as well.

a roach infestation is hardly a personality trait or a character

[Venziir]

Not sure you understand his position. Some people put on a show as well, some people don't like change and some people get into character. He should be past millionaire status at this point from YT and twitch...If I were him and read comments like this I would laugh all the way to the bank as well.

Well then, he should be able to afford living in a clean, maggot-free environment shouldn't he? And yay, another cultist - wooo!

[Frolk]

I dont get the hate these people get, wonder how many of the hate stems from jealousy that said person makes a living playing a game and they dont.

Must be a sad life to live being so bitter.

Everytime i watch Asmon and he reads "hate" forumposts i smile, cause somebody is being bitter over nothing.