High Profile Youtubers DO NOT Speak for me.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

They speak for the whole community. Nobody knows who you are, therefore nobody will listen to you. Deal with it.

[m4zz0928]

No hate, but Bellular does annoy me. He has good production value, but he just tries too hard, and somehow he can say a hundred things in one video, and I won’t retain any of it. He’s the only person in my life that’s ever happened with. I think it’s the speed and his accent that throws my brain off. That said I’m pretty sure the developers use data they collect from the players the most more than youtubers, and youtubers have views in mind, so they very well may be fabricating some resistance or drama for no reason at all.

[InflaterMouse]

The irony of the thread title and this post is pretty amazing. Can you tell me what else I do day to day? It's fascinating.




You guys say this a lot. Can you elaborate on what exactly WoD did that catered to the 1%? You say it's happened time and time again. Can you share some examples? Perhaps in say.. the last 6 years?

Preach I won't comment to what Echo said specifically regarding WOD but I will gladly tell you that youtubers do a lot of talking for an invisible people. If you want examples you can watch almost any youtuber video on topics they are passionate about including many of yours where you speak for "invisible community" or with them in mind. I can give much better examples than you though regarding other games and have in previous posts.

This isn't intending to be a mud slinging post though so please don't take this as being disrespectful as it's not intended to be. What I understand is the logistics of what "speaking for a community" or compiling the amount of data needed to make some of the assertions youtubers make is simply beyond their means.

If you took 10 of 1000 member guilds, that actively logged into game and perused content nightly, as well as discord it would be less than a drop of water in a barrel % of a community this large. But you probably would understand the structure which would be required to just keep up with 10 units that size.

[The Butt Witch]

I have that thought every time someone posts a Preach video.

Why should I get my opinions from Preach? Let me play the damn game and form my own opinions.

Because your opinion doesn't matter to Blizzard.

Youtubers work like voice amplifiers. The likes on their videos represent people agreeing with them. And Blizzard sees all this and, theoretically, acts accordingly and in good time.
If YOU play the game and don't like it, and then whine about it, two things are likely to happen:
1. Nobody cares because Blizzard can't hear you because no Youtuber represents you.
2. It's already too late for Blizzard to make changes, so your grievances are postponed until later major patches OR the next expansion.

So YES, Youtubers should speak for people because the LOUD AND SQUEAKY wheel gets the grease.

[T-34]

I have that thought every time someone posts a Preach video.

Why should I get my opinions from Preach? Let me play the damn game and form my own opinions.

You of course have your own opinion, but like in the real world the bigger your reach is the bigger your influence is.
So you or I that only reach 1 person - ourselves - have zero influence, whereas a guy like Preach has a big reach as his videos are watched by many and discussed by even more people. And therefore he has bigger influence.
And no matter what you or I think about him he has more influence on Blizzard because his opinions influence a lot of people.

You can only hope that there are youtubers/streamers/influencers that represent your point of view on WoW.

And this phenomenon with "youtubers" is just replacing the traditional media.
Before "youtubers" a company like Blizzard had to "suck up" and "impress" the media so they got favourable reviews/coverage.
Then some of those media got online, like Wow Insider.
But today both of the above are as good as dead and have been replaced by independent agents - "youtubers".
And Blizzard, like any rational company, has to listen to them if Blizzard wants favourable coverage.

Nothing has changed, just as in the age of printed media and traditional electronic media, you and I have no reach and thereby no influence.

[LanToaster]

But today both of the above are as good as dead and have been replaced by independent agents - "youtubers".
And Blizzard, like any rational company, has to listen to them if Blizzard wants favourable coverage.

Problem is, at least it appears to me that way, (I mostly stay clear of these people), these news YouTubers live of negative coverage, because people like watching/hearing drama, and how everything sucks.

[Orwell7]

So what's the fuckin POSITIVE about Shadowlands that's worthy of DISCUSSION?
Transmog, storylines, "fun" minigames are not worth discussions.

Talking about classes and tuning is "forbidden" because it is still beta
Talking about fun-interesting legendary/covenant/soulbind combos is "forbidden" because WE KNOW everything can and will change.
Talking about what will be good in what instance/raidboss is being a "meta slave" nowadays because fuck you play what you want and shut up.

So what's left? WoW at it's core is a combat-based game, everything is tied to combat (or how to avoid it in some cases).
Combat is feeling worse and worse for most specs. Combat could be shaken up, but Blizzard just doesn't understand that if we "feel good" about out specs, we won't talk about "farming" or "grinding" - we just play the game!
When farming-grinding comes to discussion IT MEANS THAT the base core combat gameplay just flat-out SUCKS.

And here is the discussion, one main point is being covenants. Combat sucks right now BECAUSE borrowed power systems like artifacts, azerite, corruptions, essences, and in SL: legendaries, soulbinds, covenants, conduits.

[DesoPL]

I say that every Blizzard youtuber content creators are in trash tier, from Belluar to Grubby. Yeah i've changed my mind.

[T-34]

Problem is, at least it appears to me that way, (I mostly stay clear of these people), these news YouTubers live of negative coverage, because people like watching/hearing drama, and how everything sucks.

Maybe youtubers are more negative. One could argue that youtbers are more independent and therefore can be more honest and critical. But at the end of the day they have the reach and thereby the influence.
It is no coincidence that Blizzard has gone out of its usual "comfort-zone" and has started going TO the youtubers/streamers to be interviewed.
I mean who misses Ion and Lore's toe-cringing "interviews"?

Youtubers are a bit like political parties: You can of course ignore them, but decisions are going to be made anyway. So you should become a "member" of the youtuber/influencer that corresponds to your interests. And the more "members" that youtuber gets the more influence he will have.

[Aggrophobic]

Agreed with the OP, and I'd like to take it one step further.

Everything in the Maw, including Torghast, should feel incredibly threatening and hostile. And not something you can outgear.
I want that feeling again when I explored Winterspring at lvl 55, mountainclimbing up to try and enter Hyjal, and ended up falling into the elite lvl demon zone there. "I am NOT supposed to be here". Thats what the Maw should always be. I hope it can deliver on that.

Have you played it though? It's mind numbingly boring, the Maw at least.
You can't even mount in that place. It's quite litteraly the most boring zone I've ever set my foot in in any MMO.

[LanToaster]

Youtubers are a bit like political parties

Please leave Politics out of gaming. And if you really want to go by that example:
I vote for Politic parties, Blizzard never opens a poll which Idiot with a Webcam I support.

As I also said, going by the Metric of "Viewers" you dont get any sense of what the Community wants, because you dont know how many actually play the game. Nor how many agree with any specific point made in a Video.

You can of course ignore them, but decisions are going to be made anyway.

So what? Decisions will be made with or without YouTubers.

So you should become a "member" of the youtuber/influencer that corresponds to your interests. And the more "members" that youtuber gets the more influence he will have.

No, I should not. There are some Reasons why, but the main reason is basically:

I pay Blizzard to make a game I enjoy, its their job to keep the game Entertaining, and not my job to provide Income to someone who may or may not have the same agenda (Namely Having a game to enjoy), nor do I have to tell Blizzard what they need to do to make the game fun for me or others. I dont have the Qualifications for that, sure I have my Ideas and thoughs what could be more fun, but I dont have the farsight nor experience how these things work together. Because its not my fucking job.

You dont go into a restaurant yourself and tell the chef how to cook your dinner. If you like it you come again, if not you dont return.

The flipside is, if Blizzard fails to keep their side of the contract: "Providing me with Access to the game I enjoy" I quit that contract. Simple as that.

Edit: To clearify it:
If Blizzard makes changes that dont appeal to me, I may just leave the game. But if there are self proclaimed Experts pushing their (seemingly) hate agenda to hate everything (because that makes Money and views), and influence changes which may or may not affect the enjoyment of the game, its a bit annoying.

[T-34]

Please leave Politics out of gaming. And if you really want to go by that example:
I vote for Politic parties, Blizzard never opens a poll which Idiot with a Webcam I support.

I pay Blizzard to make a game I enjoy, its their job to keep the game Entertaining, and not my job to provide Income to someone who may or may not have the same agenda (Namely Having a game to enjoy), nor do I have to tell Blizzard what they need to do to make the game fun for me or others. I dont have the Qualifications for that, sure I have my Ideas and thoughs what could be more fun, but I dont have the farsight nor experience how these things work together. Because its not my fucking job. g.

I made an analogy to explain why youtubers are important. Whatever we like it or not youtubers/streamers have vastly greater influence on Blizzard's decision making than you and me. Just as political parties an organizations that promote particular interests have great influence because they represent a lot of people.
You might consider them idiots, but that doesn't change the fact that a guy like Asmongold who can have up to 100.00 viewers has a huge impact on how his viewers look at WoW.

I am not saying that you or I should tell Blizzard how to do stuff, but Blizzard is listening to youtubers/streamers etc., not because Blizzard thinks they are competent, but because they have influence. It is pure business. If influencers are happy then it spreads to their viewers = more money in the bank for Blizzard. That is why Ion is going to the influencers and talking to them directly on their shows.

And Blizzard isn't the only company that has to take in to account what youtubers/influencers etc. say. All companies do that because it makes sense.

You said you don't go to a chef and tell him how to cook which is sensible, but a restaurant would of course listen to a famous streamer/youtuber/influencer that said something negative about the restaurant. Not because he is more knowledgeable than you, but becasue he can reach a lot of people and either get many customers to the restaurant or lose the restaurant a lot of customers.

So personally I agree that most of those "personalities" are annoying and stupid, but they have great influence and I perfectly well understand why Blizzard is listening to them. It might be distasteful, but it is rational.

[LanToaster]

I made an analogy to explain why youtubers are important.

You never said any reasonable thing on why they are Important, you just repeat that they hold influence, which no one (I think) every said anything against that.

But they only hold the influence people give them.
Asmongold is a good example, while I dont watch him, and I dont like him, he appears to play the game and just talk about stuff to his followers about stuff that in the game affects him and how he see it, which is fine. He doesnt appear to push any agenda.

But the others who were mentioned, Beludingis and Heelsbabydingi, they on the other hand appear to just ride the hate train. (From what I´ve seen)
Again, the question is not "If" they hold Influence, but if they should.

I trust the employees of Blizzard to take everything they say and see there with their own standards and not do bullshit because they say stuff. But these YouTubers are nowhere near as important as they think. Games wouldnt get worse or suck if they just vanished. (Or people would just stop watching them)

Game Devs made great games long before the Internet and YouTubers. Sometimes I get the feeling all this "Early Feedback" ruins more than it helps.

- - - Updated - - -

Forgot this part:

You said you don't go to a chef and tell him how to cook which is sensible, but a restaurant would of course listen to a famous streamer/youtuber/influencer that said something negative about the restaurant. Not because he is more knowledgeable than you, but becasue he can reach a lot of people and either get many customers to the restaurant or lose the restaurant a lot of customers.

I would not put the Opinion of any self proclaimed expert over any other single Customer of my Busines.

If Random Schmoe says my steak is a bit tough, or my Sauce lacks flavor. That has the exact same worth and impact for me as when Gordon Ramsay would come into my business and say the same thing.

[Unholyground]

if people are retarded enough to take things as facts and not opinions that is on them lmao.

I watch a lot of the WoW YouTubers and many of them come up with good points but they are not all good points lol.

[Bisque]

You never said any reasonable thing on why they are Important, you just repeat that they hold influence, which no one (I think) every said anything against that.

But they only hold the influence people give them.
Asmongold is a good example, while I dont watch him, and I dont like him, he appears to play the game and just talk about stuff to his followers about stuff that in the game affects him and how he see it, which is fine. He doesnt appear to push any agenda.

But the others who were mentioned, Beludingis and Heelsbabydingi, they on the other hand appear to just ride the hate train. (From what I´ve seen)
Again, the question is not "If" they hold Influence, but if they should.

I trust the employees of Blizzard to take everything they say and see there with their own standards and not do bullshit because they say stuff. But these YouTubers are nowhere near as important as they think. Games wouldnt get worse or suck if they just vanished. (Or people would just stop watching them)

Game Devs made great games long before the Internet and YouTubers. Sometimes I get the feeling all this "Early Feedback" ruins more than it helps.

- - - Updated - - -

Forgot this part:

I would not put the Opinion of any self proclaimed expert over any other single Customer of my Busines.

If Random Schmoe says my steak is a bit tough, or my Sauce lacks flavor. That has the exact same worth and impact for me as when Gordon Ramsay would come into my business and say the same thing.

I agree with this. I think to often this forum gets a bit "hero worshippy" with WoW Youtubers. Now granted there is probably a large portion of Wow players who rarely use/post on MMO-champ but the hero worship could be toned down a bit...

[T-34]

Y
I would not put the Opinion of any self proclaimed expert over any other single Customer of my Busines.

If Random Schmoe says my steak is a bit tough, or my Sauce lacks flavor. That has the exact same worth and impact for me as when Gordon Ramsay would come into my business and say the same thing.

Hmmm, imagine what impact it would have on your business if Gordon Ramsey told on his show that your restaurant sucks? His words would spread to a lot of people that would spread it further.
People like Gordon Ramsey can kill a restaurant or make its owner rich with a few words.
If you can't understand why people who can reach tens if not hundred of thousand people have a much higher impact on a business than you and I then I truly hope that you never should run a business.
Again, these people have power. They might have the intellect of a hamster and the knowledge of a guppy, but their words influence and reach a huge amount of people.
We don't live in 2000 anymore where there were no youtube, streaming etc. Where Blizzard could rely on conventional marketing like tv-commercials and printed press. That doesn't work anymore. Today Blizzard needs to deal with the reality of "influencers". If the influencers like the product = free positive publicity for Blizzard, if they don't like it = free negative publicity for Blizzard.

That doesn't mean that Blizzard should only rely on "influencers". It only means that we have a new amorphous "media" which Blizzard has to deal with.
Again why do you think that Blizzard has started to "visit" various streamers/youtubers on their media instead of the traditional where the journalists/media visits Blizzard?

[keldarepewpew]

negative content just sells better. Thats why its better for youtubers to trash stuff its much easier to get upvotes that way.

[Alteiry]

Imagine being so intellectually bankrupt you have to consult the opinion of a public figure to know what to think about something.

[Echo of Soul]

What worries me is that Blizzard might actually listen to these YouTubers who claim to talk for the community.

The majority of the playerbase probably never even talk to them so how could they possibly know what they want?

Take Preach for example, if you're a part of his audience or the people he plays with you're probably more hardcore than most. It creates sort of an echo chamber for the hardcore but when he uses phrases like "we" or "most" it gives the impression that he's representing some sort of majority when in fact it's a vast majority.

How many people watch a YouTube video like that? 100k? Even if he had talked to every single person individually (which is impossible) it would still only be a fraction of the playerbase.

[Bisque]

Hmmm, imagine what impact it would have on your business if Gordon Ramsey told on his show that your restaurant sucks? His words would spread to a lot of people that would spread it further.
People like Gordon Ramsey can kill a restaurant or make its owner rich with a few words.
If you can't understand why people who can reach tens if not hundred of thousand people have a much higher impact on a business than you and I then I truly hope that you never should run a business.
Again, these people have power. They might have the intellect of a hamster and the knowledge of a guppy, but their words influence and reach a huge amount of people.
We don't live in 2000 anymore where there were no youtube, streaming etc. Where Blizzard could rely on conventional marketing like tv-commercials and printed press. That doesn't work anymore. Today Blizzard needs to deal with the reality of "influencers". If the influencers like the product = free positive publicity for Blizzard, if they don't like it = free negative publicity for Blizzard.

That doesn't mean that Blizzard should only rely on "influencers". It only means that we have a new amorphous "media" which Blizzard has to deal with.
Again why do you think that Blizzard has started to "visit" various streamers/youtubers on their media instead of the traditional where the journalists/media visits Blizzard?

I think you are over estimating the reach of Wow "influencers". I am sure blizz takes their views into account but honestly I think you are giving WoW influencers to much power as if every design meeting is held with "well Preach, Bellaur, X said this so we better listen or else !" Easy on the hero worship, I am sure while Influencers are a part of the direction of WoW, they are ONLY a part, there are probably many other factors in design than what "high profile WoW person" said.