High Profile Youtubers DO NOT Speak for me.

[shoc]

Some people care way too much about video games, and it's our own fault that we have to suffer WoW YouTubers and Streamers, they wouldn't exist without the quantified worship and praise they get through views, ad revenue and subs. I like WoW, more than average enough to spend time posting on WoW forums. But jfc, at what point do you live and let live and focus on things with greater implications in the world than how much damage the purple wizard deals compared to the orange wizard.

[Saltysquidoon]

Some people care way too much about video games, and it's our own fault that we have to suffer WoW YouTubers and Streamers, they wouldn't exist without the quantified worship and praise they get through views, ad revenue and subs. I like WoW, more than average enough to spend time posting on WoW forums. But jfc, at what point do you live and let live and focus on things with greater implications in the world than how much damage the purple wizard deals compared to the orange wizard.

I mean it's really a matter of perspective. There a people being paid six-figure salaries to know of the purple mage man or the floating woman does more damage because companies are investing 8 figures in sports.

[Utrrabbit]

Most youtube/twitch people have their head up their ass and are only trying to make money. They are the politicians of wow except they have no power. Don't listen to talking heads... unless they are the Talking Heads.

Actually they have a lot of power. More than the regular player. They literally have the devs on email. Some are friends and have their numbers. Their was an interview where the devs stated they watch and take feed back a lot from streamers. The devs literally have made changes in the alpha based entirely on streamer feedback. Because they have learned thar the streamers are normally 99% correct.

[CostinR]

Actually they have a lot of power. More than the regular player. They literally have the devs on email. Some are friends and have their numbers. Their was an interview where the devs stated they watch and take feed back a lot from streamers. The devs literally have made changes in the alpha based entirely on streamer feedback. Because they have learned thar the streamers are normally 99% correct.

This is true, though it largely depends on Youtuber/Streamer. The reason they have power is they have large fanbases that they understand how they think, you have you since understanding what your fanbase wants is a critical part for any content creator.

It isn't the best system in the world, but it has shown itself to be better then alternatives hence why gaming companies rely more and more on them. It does create a lot of problem.

[vertigo12]

I don't think blizzard thinks any of these youtubers speak for anyone but themselves. I don't think the youtubers feel THEY speak for anyone but themselves. I don't really understand this thread.

Do you have to say, "In my opinion," before you can give a youtube opinion? That's considered pretty bad writing. It's obviously your opinion. It's an opinion/reaction video.

Preach, for instance, didn't mind the timer because it does nothing; but because it does nothing he wondered what the point was. Blizzard is not actually pressuring the best players they are actually pressuring the players who get nervous and don't want torghast to have a timer.

He feels that blizzard gets into this cycle where they decide what fun is and preach's point was that they really need to stop doing that. The only people waiting on bloodlust were folks doing the highest and most extreme levels of Torghast--not the ordinary stuff everyone needs to get their legendary materials.

They probably are using the said mechanics as a semi test case when an appropriate mode for Torghast will be implemented, what else but a Mythic or Mythic+ version of it.

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I couldn't agree more. One of the biggest issues with the elite tubers is some of them carry sway in what they do and what they say and the fanbois are real. For instance, gamers like lvlcap gaming and Jackfrag helped sway some of the development changes in BF games. Because when they said something needed to change 7 million mouthbreathers sounded off behind them a blew up forums and redit.

The biggest issues with them doing this is they are gamers, not developers and the game breaking changes they wanted were to suit their specific type of game play. A lot of tubers want the game their way and use the "community" to try and sway changes by bringing the masses around. I don't see this as much in wow honestly but yea NO, and I mean NO youtuber speaks for me. I might agree with some points they make but they often use words like "the community" or "my people" and they have way less contact with the community they even they know.

I'd like to share my experience and perhaps it's about time to "step out of the shadows".
Blizzard could have used their very own forum as a platform for making the community an active participants in shaping up the game but unfortunately they end up with 3rd party external sites or sources to make an evolving game dev-playerbase community to realize the game and which direction it should be heading. I have nothing against this move as I can clearly see the benefit of this decision as part of their marketing strategy. Back then there were no guide. People pool in their collective and shared experience to define the site such as wowdb and wowhead known as Allakazam before.

Back in 2004 and the rise of to greatness of Defense of the Ancient 1 when it was still a custom map in WC3 , one of the primary reasons why it became successful is because of the forums and Icefrog listens to the voice of those who are members of The forum. Heroes are implemented because they are suggestions of the community. Hero icons were changed base on the suggestion of one member of the forums, hero remake and skills suggestions are popping left and right, and further improvement on the system were selected from the list of suggestors and contributors. DoTA is the community. I have been one of the contributors in DoTA, one of which is my Lion, the Demon Witch story remake where I have been the winner for that slot.

I too was a dota-portal.com moderator and have been keeping the community engaged and active in the item suggestions section where I post an icon and let members participate to come up with new recipe but should have my item of the month as part of the recipe. They make their own effects, and item story written as flavor text.

In dota-allstars.com that is when many of my suggestions were incorporated as well as from many other suggestions. Making the CoP as part of the game apart from just a circle on the side was my idea and it was implemented having freeze/unfreeze as well as using it as extra inventory prior to the implementation of the flying courier. I also spearheaded a cosmetic revolution which are a collection of suggestion from different suggestors in our goal to fully personalized each and every hero skills since many heroes share the same icon skills before, later on been replace to become uniquely their own, at the same time allow the icons being used by multiple heroes and just be used by one. Wow and it's plethora of icons is what shaped and defined DoTa1 hero skills and item icons became the next go to apart from the in-game icons from WC3 Map editor, those technical enough just convert them to the necessary and required border, the active forumers are the concept artists.It was a success. The place is so much alive, much like how it is here in MMO-C. That is one of the reasons why when I started playing WoW I chose this to be my home for discussions since it's as close as it can get to the DoTA forums I was active before.

So,am I professionally a game developer? Obviously not, as I was still studying Computer Studies in college then were I usually skip class and dropped out because I was into the game "DoTA". Others are playing and spending their time really hard to play as much matches, I on the other hand on stayed up late actively giving in input into the forums to see my suggestions one day realized. We have a saying then: "Do not fix what is not broken" and I've seen it being mentioned here too. Am I that popular compared to those who make names in the competitive side of the game, obviously not but I am respected and made a name beneath the underground community who shapes the game and stirs the game into the direction of our liking, by fans for fans.

Back then we players, we members of the forum are the voice. Icefrog listens, and he implements unlike now..

[Fappy]

The irony is that on forums like MMO-Champ and (especially) Reddit I see waaaay more general negativity and people speaking for the larger community. Sure, there are some overly negative content creators out there, but in general most of them I have watched over the years have been far more positive than the forum communities that share their hobby/fandom.

Also, gratz OP on getting called out on stream lol.

[Icathian]

Streamers are unironically the best thing we have to make game companies actually give a shit about our opinion.

Let's say blizzard designs a very bad raid. It's just bad. Everyone knows it's bad. There are tons of detailed, technical posts about how bad it is in the forums. What happens? Blizzard ignores them.

Now what if a streamer makes a video or whatever about how bad the raid is? There are potential millions of people watching. Gaming sites talking about it with headlines like "Find out why Mr.streamer hates the new raid". Blizzard will fix it asap.

Can the streamers become arrogant and stupid? Yes. But they want to maintain their status, so they're forced to listen to their fans if they wanna stay relevant.

So yes, it sucks, I wish things could be better but this is what we have at the moment.

[Kallisto]

Really? ....are you that misguided. Bellular is the one who bitches...about everything.

Preach has not once bitched about anything. Infact he has rarely ever given negative feedback about anthing. Except for a few times, which actually turned out to be true.

I have a feeling that you never actually watch preach and you are just a tool.

Most people who say what they say about preach generally mistake him for HvBF because they're both british and bald.

[Greendog]

Do people not like Bellular? I mean I wouldn't go as far as saying I don't like the guy but his content is on point right? I mean the info he gives is accurate yes? I watched Preach sometimes. I don't really play wow anymore so I dont watch many channels that cover it. But watching Bell I know I'm getting correct info, same for Preach. But there is one guy who I could say that if we were to meet IRL I don't think we would get on. And that person is Azmongold. There's just something about him that irritates me, perhaps it is his manner in which he projects his opinions. It almost feels like arrogance but it's excessive. I doubt you could have a discussion with the guy without him correcting something that may or not be correct. The way he will make content off other youtubers opinions and give his reaction, but most of the time I hear him telling us all why said person is wrong.

As for Bellular I think he is reliable for info and quite professional in his execution

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Yeah I can't go 5 seconds into a Bellular video without his gigantic ego punching me in the balls.

Let alone opening YouTube and not seeing his Face on a thumbnail these days, lol.

[Kallisto]

What is being discussed is that this youtubers speak as FACTS
And
Speak for the majority or the "many people"

This is plain and simply wrong as they have zero information to make such claims

There is nothing wrong in having an opinion BUT you CANT parse it as a fact and speak for others, which is what is being discussed this youtubers are doing.

If you watched the video i quoted, he:
1) Speaks for the many
2) immediately says Blizzard has a "lack of emotional inteligence" and immediately after says "many people" again

How the hell does he know he speaks for this "many people"? Thats the question.

I find Bellular when he tries to be an armchair psychiatrist quite silly. Brining up EI, and shit like that makes me chuckle because frankly it's not his area of expertise so doesn't fully know about it either. Or spreadsheets vs emotions nonsense.

[Icathian]

What I don't like about bellular is how he kinda feels... Idk, fake is a strong word but I don't know what else to call it.

It's just this ability to say that something really sucks or is really cool with always the same face and voice. Sometimes it's painfully obvious he's just reading a script.
WoW became just a source of income to him and you can tell.

[Makabreska]

I used to follow multiple WoW YouTubers, but they basically all speak about the same things, so now I stick with Kelani (and sometimes Preach). Kelani has a nice, soothing voice, perfect to listen to in the background.

[illander]

When are you considered high profile?
Just to know, for no particular reason c:

[Heavens Night]

I used to follow multiple WoW YouTubers, but they basically all speak about the same things, so now I stick with Kelani (and sometimes Preach). Kelani has a nice, soothing voice, perfect to listen to in the background.

I can't stand either of them.

But each to their own I guess.

[Lahis]

When are you considered high profile?
Just to know, for no particular reason c:

When people on MMO-Champion hate your guts.

[illander]

FML then, my only thread here was about finding the Jailer, Arbiter and Runesage and it seems that people kinda loved that lol

[erifwodahs]

Back then we players, we members of the forum are the voice. Icefrog listens, and he implements unlike now..

They listen for sure, but if they did "implement it" they would have to remove flying and LFR and LFD but then not to remove it at the same time. Make raids hard again, but then implement easy modes again. Make leveling a main part of the game again but make it really fast too. Give people content, but not let them grind. Give casuals good gear but then not give them good loot because "they don't deserve it". I mean I love new shadow priest but a ton of people hate it. So you might say, ok, we will remove LFR. That will piss of 40% of the playerbase but we will have 60% of players who are engaged and loyal, then you remove something else - it will piss another fraction off, and another and another. There are groups of people saying that m+ is ruining the game.

[vertigo12]

I used to follow multiple WoW YouTubers, but they basically all speak about the same things, so now I stick with Kelani (and sometimes Preach). Kelani has a nice, soothing voice, perfect to listen to in the background.

SignsofKelani are releasing good episode very much relevant to what's happening recently.another YT channel I check often is MrGM, The Lost Codex for lore crash course, the rest I discover for myself are budding YT channels but have the footages I am looking for which I usually share on my post here for the community to diacuss,ofcourse that is all without monetizing anything because in here we're all equal and the same, at a certain degree.

[InflaterMouse]

Streamers are unironically the best thing we have to make game companies actually give a shit about our opinion.

Let's say blizzard designs a very bad raid. It's just bad. Everyone knows it's bad. There are tons of detailed, technical posts about how bad it is in the forums. What happens? Blizzard ignores them.

Now what if a streamer makes a video or whatever about how bad the raid is? There are potential millions of people watching. Gaming sites talking about it with headlines like "Find out why Mr.streamer hates the new raid". Blizzard will fix it asap.

Can the streamers become arrogant and stupid? Yes. But they want to maintain their status, so they're forced to listen to their fans if they wanna stay relevant.

So yes, it sucks, I wish things could be better but this is what we have at the moment.

Totally disagree. Most streamers don't give a shit about your opinion. They are more interested in the stream, don't ask meaningful questions which can bring about change or rational discussion. Streamers are worse than youtubers in this regard. At least on youtube, unless disabled, the comments can bring discussion, thoughts and arguments that can be read and archived.

If streamers listened and then regurgitated information exchanges between themselves and viewers on meaningful topics that is all they would have time to do, nothing else. Youtubers are folks that can bring sway with large fan bases, steamers are for entertainment value for the most part exclusively.

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They listen for sure, but if they did "implement it" they would have to remove flying and LFR and LFD but then not to remove it at the same time. Make raids hard again, but then implement easy modes again. Make leveling a main part of the game again but make it really fast too. Give people content, but not let them grind. Give casuals good gear but then not give them good loot because "they don't deserve it". I mean I love new shadow priest but a ton of people hate it. So you might say, ok, we will remove LFR. That will piss of 40% of the playerbase but we will have 60% of players who are engaged and loyal, then you remove something else - it will piss another fraction off, and another and another. There are groups of people saying that m+ is ruining the game.

Wow really didn't take the route he described in his post, the devs do their own thing. About the only feed back wow uses from any sources are like he said 3rd party, PTR or alpha/beta. And in that case they don't ask, they pool information. With the wow community things I feel Blizz does poorly are things which are considered "must" for character progression. I have seen the tired argument of "well you don't really have to do that, it's marginal this or that" but you kind of do. Even at a semi-casual game play status you want the same things everyone else has. Making players participate in game modes they have no interest in will always be a bad idea.

But how they figure out people are unhappy with decisions they make currently I think falls on the $ gain or lost.