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  1. #1

    Would you be a fan of affixes with positive effects?

    So right now M+ has affixes that are kind of...odd in places. For example Bursting can be a lot more punishing at lower keys, due to the speed at which mobs can be killed. However, at really high keys it poses a very low threat. Blostering seems to regarded as just annoying with little decision involved. Grievous is very reliant on healer responsibility it seems.

    I believe these things can be fine tuned to get rid of these issues, but while thinking about that I thought about the negative aspects in general of the affixes that exist in M+. From my limited experience many find the affixes more annoying to deal with than actually rewarding for doing it right.

    So my thoughts led me down to this; what if the dungeon was scaled more heavily number wise, but had positive affixes? Here's an example of some affixes, with an explanation of what I'm trying to accomplish with them.

    1. [Opportunities] Successfully interrupting an enemy gives you a boost to your damage or healing for a short duration. Stuns/knockbacks can now spell-lock. - Purpose of this is to reward players doing the right thing, while also giving a greater effect to those who can coordinate their interrupts/CC effectively. The last bit is just to make sure that healers and/or classes with long interrupt CDs can still effectively contribute.

    2. [Specialist Tools] An Si-7 agent or Forsaken scout will appear at the beginning of the dungeon. Will provide various tools to each player. - So items could be something as powerful as a battle res to classes that don't have one possibly freeing up the meta. Or could go in a different direction where it's something total unique. I.E. Gnomish Wormhole activated onto a pack of mobs transporting to them out into the ocean or just really high up in the air. Would be fun to just to seem plop on to the ground while you are killing the next pack :P Other ideas could be calling in for assistance from an NPC. It can either debuff the target, or frequently interrupt/stun them.

    3. [Terror and Rage] Each pull an enemy will gain a "leader" buff. Attacking this enemy more than others will make it more lethal. Killing this enemy will instill fear into the other enemies weakening them. - Purpose of this is a choice between single target focus or AoE. The faster you kill the "leader" the more damage you can pump into the others. Ideal scenario would be to allow single target specs to be viable while also allowing groups to consider the danger the leader may impose on the tank. This is an idea that shares both a benefit and drawback obviously. So a little different than the other two.


    A caveat; this is purely just for fun for me. I thought it was kind of a cool idea. I'm definitely no expert on M+ so there could be some huge drawbacks I'm missing here. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Spacewalrus2010; 2020-05-19 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Typos

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Alkizon's Avatar
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    Red face

    Here would be pertinent option like "I don't like affixes..." and other random crap in no way connected with what is happening in the dungeon.
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2020-05-17 at 06:28 PM.
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  3. #3
    Affixes exist to make the dungeon harder not easier so positive affixes are kind of missing the point of the mechanic. Your third suggestion might be workable, but it seems like a solution to a problem blizzard has other less 'gamey' ways of fixing (such as target caps).

  4. #4
    Dreadlord Depakote's Avatar
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    No. Bring back Challenge Mode, get rid of Mythic.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Affixes exist to make the dungeon harder not easier so positive affixes are kind of missing the point of the mechanic. Your third suggestion might be workable, but it seems like a solution to a problem blizzard has other less 'gamey' ways of fixing (such as target caps).
    I think the purpose of Affixes is to create some variety so the dungeon doesn't feel the same every time. The increased levels to keys already give difficulty.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    No. Bring back Challenge Mode, get rid of Mythic.
    yeah, not going to happen.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    I think the purpose of Affixes is to create some variety so the dungeon doesn't feel the same every time. The increased levels to keys already give difficulty.
    The type and number of affixes are tied to difficulty and if they didn't exist to increase that aforementioned difficulty why are there no positive ones already?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    The type and number of affixes are tied to difficulty and if they didn't exist to increase that aforementioned difficulty why are there no positive ones already?
    People would want to optimize beneficial effects.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    People would want to optimize beneficial effects.
    But are you sticking to your original argument that affixes are not tied to difficulty?

  10. #10
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Purely positive maybe not. But maybe a kiss-curse type affix. Like maybe the amount of trash per pack is reduced, but they also now hit harder.
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  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Ladey Gags's Avatar
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    I would be happy with zero affixes but that will never happen. I prefer static difficulty rather than gimmicky crap

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    But are you sticking to your original argument that affixes are not tied to difficulty?
    Huh? I said I believe affixes are there to bring variety to the dungeon. I think the reason they probably weren't beneficial is because people may be upset they didn't get the best ones to self-optimize their damage.

  13. #13
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Yes.

    I think negative affixes are important for the concept of m+, but I think it would be cool if every week also had a rotating positive affix for all runs regardless of difficulty. The point of it would be obviously to add variety to runs (and an extra level of fun) while the negative affixes would continue to add the challenge they normally do. The positive affixes would also potentially have interesting interactions with the negative ones, making some more or or less useful depending on the other affixes in rotation.

    That said, they'd have to either be really minor positive affects or the dungeons would have to be tuned up to account for them. I think the benefit of positive affixes should just be increased novelty and fun and variety, not actually making the dungeons easier overall, as that would defeat the point. One example might be something like 'trash mobs occasionally defect and join your team', so maybe you will randomly get a mob turn friendly for a short time every nine or ten pulls. Unless you get lucky and it's a real tough mob that happens to turn, it's probably going to have minimal impact on your success but can occasionally make some trash pulls easier or at least more interesting depending on what you get and what abilities they have, with the trash tuned slightly harder overall to account for this happening. But it could be something as little as attacks automatically applying slows to mobs (nice on necrotic weeks, minimally useful the rest of the time), players emitting a small damage aura, etc.

    I'm not a designer so maybe those examples are bad, but I do think it's possible to add some positive affixes that make things a little more fun while still keeping the challenge level there.

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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Affixes exist to make the dungeon harder not easier so positive affixes are kind of missing the point of the mechanic. Your third suggestion might be workable, but it seems like a solution to a problem blizzard has other less 'gamey' ways of fixing (such as target caps).
    That's why I suggested toying with the scaling curve. At higher keys, the affixes would need to be used optimally to time the key. So difficulty would still exist wouldn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    That said, they'd have to either be really minor positive affects or the dungeons would have to be tuned up to account for them. I think the benefit of positive affixes should just be increased novelty and fun and variety, not actually making the dungeons easier overall, as that would defeat the point. One example might be something like 'trash mobs occasionally defect and join your team', so maybe you will randomly get a mob turn friendly for a short time every nine or ten pulls. Unless you get lucky and it's a real tough mob that happens to turn, it's probably going to have minimal impact on your success but can occasionally make some trash pulls easier or at least more interesting depending on what you get and what abilities they have, with the trash tuned slightly harder overall to account for this happening. But it could be something as little as attacks automatically applying slows to mobs (nice on necrotic weeks, minimally useful the rest of the time), players emitting a small damage aura, etc.

    I'm not a designer so maybe those examples are bad, but I do think it's possible to add some positive affixes that make things a little more fun while still keeping the challenge level there.
    I tried to avoid putting down numbers because I wanted to address the idea rather than the actual tuning. I agree these positive affixes can't be huge otherwise it the scaling of the dungeons would have to go through the roof.

    The idea of a trash mob defect and join your team wouldn't be super OP btw. I mean DKs are valued in atal'dazar because they can MC a very dangerous mob. It makes the dungeon easier, but you don't see "need a dk" in a dungeon queues afiak.

  15. #15
    Yeah I think that could be a fun thing to have. A lot of players participating in that content though seem to only be about "being hardcore" and "challenging yourself" so they probably wouldn't welcome the idea. Personally I stopped doing mythic+ cause I came to the conclusion that I don't like it, so maybe it doesn't really matter what I think about the affixes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    I would be happy with zero affixes but that will never happen. I prefer static difficulty rather than gimmicky crap
    Normal, heroic and mythic (0) dungeons do not have affixes, sounds like you should try those

  16. #16
    I'd like it if affixes worked similarly to PoE's map system with random effects for the map, instead of being locked in to a specific combo of affixes for a whole week. Something fresh every run would be nice.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kosumi View Post
    I'd like it if affixes worked similarly to PoE's map system with random effects for the map, instead of being locked in to a specific combo of affixes for a whole week. Something fresh every run would be nice.
    This sounds like a good idea. You would want more balanced group over picking very specific combos for the entire week. On the other hand, some runs would be doomed to fail with bad rng affixes. Not sure how would that feel if you know you ripped your key right after you start the run and I can already see ppl leaving your group instantly after the start.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikeyla View Post
    This sounds like a good idea. You would want more balanced group over picking very specific combos for the entire week. On the other hand, some runs would be doomed to fail with bad rng affixes. Not sure how would that feel if you know you ripped your key right after you start the run and I can already see ppl leaving your group instantly after the start.
    Yeah but is it really any different than for example a KR with bursting or bolstering? I think it would ultimately be better than what we have currently cause you might jsut have a dead key once, but it won't be a dead key for the whole week.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kosumi View Post
    Yeah but is it really any different than for example a KR with bursting or bolstering? I think it would ultimately be better than what we have currently cause you might jsut have a dead key once, but it won't be a dead key for the whole week.
    True I guess. Im used to playing PoE or GD and while I prefer the GD style of random generating affixes without knowing it in advance, which forces me into playing more generally balanced characters, I also know that sometimes you get fcked so hard, you cant carry on and the feeling is not too great. However, I would agree that weekly set affixes are very boring and low effort from Blizz. If it was actually randomly picked once you enter the key, maybe even garbo classes like SP or other hybrids would have a possible spot in groups, because they have some versatile skill set.

  20. #20
    i think having affixes that become more punishing the more mobs you pull and less punishing the less mobs is a bad design.

    They should be a constant threat that doesnt make stuff you normally do impossible, only harder.

    I think quaking/volcanic/grevious/teeming are examples of excellent mechanics.

    Meanwhile bolstering/explosive/sanguine becomes far too punishing when doing big pulls but does often very little on bigger pulls and barely noticable at all on bosses.

    Bursting and necrotc falls in the middle as it is at least possible to play aroudn this mechanic even on big pulls. So id say these are okay but not ideal.

    How id change em:
    Explosive should be a constant but manageable danger while in combat in the dungeon.
    Sanguine pools should be a ground effect in the dungeon, and the job is to simply not tank the mobs ontop of them.
    Bolstering only being able to buff 5 other mobs and mobs being capped out at 5 stacks.

    Ideas for new mechanics:
    Haunting: Dead monsters spawning ghosts that fixate and chase a random player for X seconds (can be slowed/ccd).
    Vengeful: Monsters having a slightly delayed ondeath explosion forcing players to move away if they are close.
    Ambushing: Randomly spawning monsters (like explosive) wich cast a heal on monsters you are in combat with unless interupted or ccd.
    Rapid: Monsters are immune to slows and has 30% increased movement speed.
    Abhorrent: Dungeon are inhabited by additional abberations (like teming but with a specefic pool of monsters added).
    Conflux: Dungeon are inhabitetd by additional elementals.
    Draconic: Dungeon are inhabited by additional Draconids.
    Ghostly: Dungeon are inhabited by additional undead.
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