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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    Yeah, how dare the Draeneï not dare sacrifice themselves futily against Sargeras.
    -U mean like what draenei HD did and in case u missed it, they are still alive and well when we meet them in Legion? in fact with how incompetent BL is, the chance that BL would been over if all exiled ones stood united instead majority of them run away is quite high
    -Orcs killed themselves as much as they killed Draenei, and while draenei earned it with deception and lot of innocent blood to stay alive (they have zero basis to claim they are good, just selfish), and if ur memory is bad or lore isn't good, u can check it whiteclaw for example
    -The well of eternity blew by Malfurion spell -.-, and i doubt he fathered any belf
    - Belfs should have same blood as High elves, but since High elves proud themselves on opposing anything belfs did and vice versa, they ironically cleaned belf hands from the very obvious troll blood
    - They still attacked them on sight, something when actual demons did appear they run away deep in forest instead -.-, this entire problem could been easily solved with talking, they refuse
    - In what regard? Humans are seriously the worst, the easiest race to corrupt, it is why Neltharion toyed with them
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by rarhyx View Post
    purge of dalaran or was that a jaina alone thing?
    Just Jaina

    Was also justified

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melusine View Post
    The bombing of Theramore was highly evil. The city itself was marshalled over by Jaina Proudmoore, who at that time was not an enemy of the Horde. Where her strong was, a small island off the coast of a swamp, where the Horde really wasn't too interested in settling, acting as if expanding in lands no one seemed to really want is not a sign of aggression, at least not until it starts raiding horde settlements or cities, or destroying them entirely to build upon those clearings... Theramore wasn't a military target. The bombing of Theramore was a terrorist attack, pure and simple.



    Garrosh is and always was a tool. I say this without reservation. Anyone who lives and dies by honor that just means winning at all costs, attacking the weak, employs sneak attacks, and insists at every turn to be as devious as possible, all the time is not honorable, just a bunch of feral savages that should be put down like rabid animals.
    Despite me getting labelled as an Alliance fanboy costantly, Theramore was justified. It simply was - you can't expect to be taken seriously if you try to argue otherwise

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    Yeah, how dare the Draeneï not dare sacrifice themselves futily against Sargeras and the rest of their kind turned evil like the... wait a minute. Which Orcish Clan ever stood its ground against the Genocide ? None that I recall. All, even the Forstwolves, happily partook in the slaughter - and they didn't face a fallen titan hiding his true nature back then.

    Also, you realize that the descendants of those who blew up the world are actually the Blood Elves (and the High and Void Elves too, by definition) ? Also, they - like humans in that regard - only did what every race in Warcraft seems to do. The Trolls didn't expand without a fight. They fought the A'qir and while they are monstrous to us, we now know that they were all more than mindless servants, but truly a civilization unto itself. Also, they atatcked the orcs because they felt the demonic corruption in them and had vowed to protect the sacred groves of Ashenvale against all threats. You can't condamn them for that if you support the troll fighting back against newcomers.

    Also, what you say about the humans is, well, so wrong on so many levels...

    But you're kind of spot on for the dwarves, got to admit it.
    Don't bother, this guy genuinely believes the Orcs bringing demons to Azeroth (and essentially starting up most of the bad things in Warcarft) is the fault of the Draenei because they didn't let themselves get exterminated

  3. #303
    There was that time in Pandaria where they used Pandaren workers. And they executed Horde soldiers helplessly swimming to shore to surrender.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Massacre of Tamp Taurajo
    "General Hawthorne, who led the assault, had nonetheless ordered his men to give the townsfolk an opening in their defensive lines for the civilians to escape. Baine Bloodhoof believed that Camp Taurajo was a legitimate military target, as the camp trained hunters and warriors,[6] and the tauren army only moved in after the late General Hawthorne had ensured that the civilians of Camp Taurajo would be allowed to leave unharmed, as he didn't give the order to massacre anyone and refused to slaughter civilians. The survivors, along with some of the survivors of Honor's Stand, fled to Camp Una'fe in the Overgrowth."

    As someone who has played both sides of the quest of Camp T, I can safely say the alliance gets far too much "Credit" of being "evil" over it. All they are truly guilty of is letting innocent men, women and children escape safely. Some people died, but only those who chose to stand and defend their home. Those left meandering around its ruins are literal war time criminals whom alliance members are sent to arrest or kill if they refuse to surrender.

    As for the original question, I am genuinely hard-pressed to think of any horrible act pulled outside of Pandera, but as someone else had asked. Was the upper brass even aware of what was occurring? Something tells me no. When it comes to underhanded, disgusting, savage like behavior .... its left to ... other factions to handle. I wouldn't be upset to SEE them do some pretty shitty things, but to be honest. The only time they do anything even "close" to awful, its usually pushed out of them by the horde.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Have you seen my posts over the past few days? You should be asking yourself why I'm alive, not why I don't have friends.
    Change is inevitable, Growth is optional.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    How dare you talk about socks like that! He was a great racoon!!!
    Why did you have to remind me of it !

    Why ! You monster ! You... You're worse than Sylvanas ! There, i said it !

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    If we're including past versions of the Alliance, meaning the Alliance of Lordaeron, I'd say putting the orcs in internment camps, but the alternative was executing them all... So, I mean, really which one would have been worse?
    Why are Alliance-leaning posters always magically forgetting that the most common result of any and all wars ever fought was forcing the defeated party to GTFO back home rather than killing them all or setting up a giant internment system for them?


    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    If we're talking about The Grand Alliance (Alliance post WC3TFT), then... I donno, the thing where the were forcing the pandaren to be laborers in the one zone in MoP maybe? Did leadership even know about that? I doubt it was sanctioned.
    It's the same Alliance. And that isn't even the worst thing the Alliance did in Pandaria, or that zone of Pandaria. Shortly before that they were merrily shooting defenseless shipwrecks.


    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    its always amusing when horde fanatics bring this up as a point AGAINST aliance,they had no ways of sending them back to outlands,so housing them to make sure they arent a danger anymore was the most moral thing to do,but ofc for horde fanatics doing that is LITERALY worse than the horde comiting multiple genosides and burning babies alive
    And other than railing about MUH HORDE FANATICS what exactly do you have to support that notion? Khadgar deactivated the Dark Portal from Azerothian side only after the Second War ended. Nothing prevented him from doing that only after the Orcs were marched through it if that was Alliance's decision.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    3 times. After the second war, after MoP, and BFA.
    Out of those, only the Second War is correct. At the end of BfA the Alliance characters themselves comment on how Sylvanas' forces outnumbered them even with the addition of Saurfang and his bunch of traitors to the Horde. And at the end of MoP the Alliance outright ceded Azshara to the Horde so that they would graciously leave Ashenvale. That's not exactly what victors in a war do. Which could have something to do with how to prior to Darkspear Rebellion Alliance had its ass kicked for nearly three years, losing multiple zones (that they never got back), most of its fleet, non-human members of their stronger army, huge personnel losses all around and so on. Varian making a threat doesn't mean there was anything tangible backing that threat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Dalaran was a human state founded during the twilight of Arathor, High elves did not help found it nor were they members of the kirin-tor until the human mages reckless use of magic started attracting demons.

    I'm not saying anything else in your post was wrong or that the elves don't shave some claim to dalaran but it was absolutely a human kingdom.


    Who would do somthing like that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?"
    It was founded by mages who wanted a city of their own where they could practice magic however they wanted without oversight from Arathor. Why did humans even have mages in the first place? Cause high elves taught them. Who have lived in Dalaran since the beginning. High elves. Who were often on its ruling council? High elves. It would be like if a handful of keepers of the grove did something bad so the Cenarion Circle decided to expel all keepers, dryads, and Cenarius himself from Moonglade.
    I'm not a supporter of Blizzard, I'm an opponent of stupid.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Talrath View Post
    Every single Alliance action is justifiable, hordes not so much. After lich king, horde got Azshara but still invaded Ashenvale and started killing everyone. Why would you even attack if you got a zone that`s a really good price. Then there is the time where horde soldiers attacked the Alliance from behind and called it glorious. The Alliance at the time were fighting the scourge, heck even garrosh is glad about it, a high ranking officer. Then there is garrosh who started destroying his own horde. Sylvanis allowing the invasion in kul tiras where people get spiked against walls and such. Sylvanis tortures infront of everyone and all find it okay cuz she got the support of the people, she burnes Teldrassil and people of horde celebrate it, and i can go on and on.
    The Alliance ceded Azshara to the Horde only after MoP. Besides, even with some Goblin settlement there at the start of Cata, The Shattering makes it clear that the Horde couldn't survive (especially after Orgrimmar went up in flames because of the Elemental Upheaval) without the lumber from Ashenvale after Night Elves broke the trade treaty. And Alliance's attack on the Barrens predates Horde's invasion of the Barrens anyway. And Garrosh was not glad about the attack at the Broken Front. He reprimanded the officer in charge of the area.


    Quote Originally Posted by Talrath View Post
    I havent forgotten the bombing of theramore, but that wasnt evil it was strategic. Theramore was there for a long time and was expanding, this is an agressive act. What did garrosh? He let information get out that he would attack theramore so that civillians wouldnt be there and then bombed it.
    Technically Garrosh didn't release that information, Baine did when he betrayed the Horde. But Garrosh still intended to sit on his ass at the gates of Theramore because his plan was to lure as many Alliance reinforcements as possible, so at the end of the day he gave the civilians time to flee.


    Quote Originally Posted by Talrath View Post
    Cataclysme garrosh was in my opinion the best one, but in MoP they just ruined him. In cataclysme you can see that he condemns the bombing of a druidisme academy and kills the general for it.
    And as per the very writer who wrote the Stonetalon questline it was a mistake because he didn't pay attention to what the overall direction for Garrosh was.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    Yeah, privileged humans - nobility - that didn't live through what the Orcs did, whether it be the invasion or the destruction of homes and families, found it inhumane. Quite frankly, Jaina judging what people who suffered through the invasions is, simply, irrelevant; people who didn't live through what the Orcs did, or are unable to understand their perspectives, have no merit in their comments.

    The fact is that the Orcs who weren't fighting in the armies, when they came through, wanted to found their new home on the corpses of dead Humans, Gnomes, and Dwarves. Whether they were a part of the army is entire irrelevant, if your actions, either explicitly or implicitly, support the army that is causing a genocide, you share culpability in that genocide. I should also note, for people giving them the benefit of the doubt: we know that this isn't the first time the Orcs even committed a genocide. This is the exact same group that tried to exterminate the Draenei, and yet people still want to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's insane.

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    I don't know if Shaw doesn't consider there to be a difference between the Horde and the Old Horde, though quests like Stay of Execution make me skeptical that this is the case, but there is a difference between blaming elements of the Horde and thinking the Horde shares full culpability for the actions of the Old Horde. For example, Saurfang was a member of the Old Horde and fought for them, and Shaw considering Saurfang partially responsible for the actions of the Old Horde would be reasonable. However, if Shaw considered Thrall, who is not a member of the Old Horde, responsible for their actions, that would be unreasonable.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The Orcs took Blood of Mannoroth because they had been convinced that the Draenei, who at this point had taken no hostile actions against them, were planning to attack. They were not required to drink the Blood of Mannoroth, but Grommash convinced the Orcs to do so, seemingly because he enjoyed being under its effect. They then committed an unprovoked genocide against the Draenei. Then, when presented with a portal to Azeroth, decided to invade because the Humans seemed weak, and let their bloodlust overwhelm them.

    "Hey guys, I know we committed a genocide on a peaceful people, and attempted to wipe out the Humans and their allies multiple times, but that wasn't our fault. It was the fault of the 50ft tall demon who offered us his blood, which we drank willingly for power to fight an enemy we had no evidence held any ill will towards us. It's also not our fault when we did things like make the path of glory, which is a testament to our genocide. I swear, we're not violent, the drugs just make us that way." - Basically Orcs
    During the questline to rescue Baine you're there with Shaw, Saurfang, Thrall, and Jaina. And Shaw flat out says he blames the modern Horde for Llane Wrynn.

    Glad you totally ignored what I wrote. It doesn't matter that the draenei hadn't done anything. The orcs had already witnessed that if the draenei got the first strike there would be no orcs left. As soon as they drank the blood, they no longer had a choice. They committed the genocide because Kil'jaeden wanted revenge on the draenei in general and Velen in particular.
    I'm not a supporter of Blizzard, I'm an opponent of stupid.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    It was founded by mages who wanted a city of their own where they could practice magic however they wanted without oversight from Arathor. Why did humans even have mages in the first place? Cause high elves taught them. Who have lived in Dalaran since the beginning. High elves. Who were often on its ruling council? High elves. It would be like if a handful of keepers of the grove did something bad so the Cenarion Circle decided to expel all keepers, dryads, and Cenarius himself from Moonglade.
    The point of my post was that the high elves did not help found or live in dalaran until the humans asked them for help with demon incursions and the council of tirisfal was formed.
    I mean did you even read the second paragraph of the post you're quoting?

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    -U mean like what draenei HD did and in case u missed it, they are still alive and well when we meet them in Legion? in fact with how incompetent BL is, the chance that BL would been over if all exiled ones stood united instead majority of them run away is quite high
    If you mean the Lightbound then you are obviosuly leaving out that those Draenei worked together with the Iron Horde remnants and we (Alliance and Horde) had already done the majority of the work by killing Archimonde and his troops in Tanaan.
    It is laughable to think that the few Draenei led by Velen had any chance to beat the full force of the Legion, especially since halve their people and two of their most powerful leaders had turned traitor. We are talking of an army of immortal demons led by an evil GOD. Their chance was zero to come out the winners in that conflict...

    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    -Orcs killed themselves as much as they killed Draenei, and while draenei earned it with deception and lot of innocent blood to stay alive (they have zero basis to claim they are good, just selfish), and if ur memory is bad or lore isn't good, u can check it whiteclaw for example
    Deception? Innocent Blood? The Draenei were refugees. They killed no one. It is not their fault they are hunted by the omnicidal Legion. Are you routinely blaming victims for the crimes commited on them? I have seen many ways of Horde fanbois trying to drag down the Alliance to their level, but geez, you're arguments are the most dispicable I have read in a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    - In what regard? Humans are seriously the worst, the easiest race to corrupt, it is why Neltharion toyed with them
    Bwahahahah. Orcs drank demon blood three times! All three willingly and the second and third time knowing exactly what they were in for. They caused a Draenei genocide TWICE, first with demon blood, then without. They invaded Azeroth twice to wipe out all live there, TWICE, first with demon blood, then without.
    You made quite the elaborate fanfiction, shame it is ridiculous in every aspect.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    When the devastation of the Scourge + Legion was tonned down a lot, it left it in a strange position. Then Blizzard did an awful work with Cataclysm + Wolfheart so that it becomes almost impossible to know who struck first.
    But it's not impossible to know that. Wolfheart explicitly takes place after the Cataclysm already shattered Azeroth. The invasion of Ashenvale in general also happened after the Cataclysm (the very point of that invasion was to leverage the chaos incurred by the Cataclysm to gain the upper hand). Manwhile Theramore's random incursion into the Barrens took place just before the Cataclysm happened.


    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    I think that the Theramore outcry comes from a) the means of its destruction and b) it was Garrosh who ordered it - and I think at that point he had already stated that he wanted to wipe out all non Hordes, at least on Kalimdor ?
    Nope, that was was what Garrosh's goal shifted to after Theramore (from subjugating the Alliance). Precisely because of Theramore, in fact. Specifically the fact that, contrary to his expectations, the Horde did not fawn over him over his amazing feat. So he came to the conclusion that the Horde will never love him unequivocally and as such will never fill the Grom-shaped hole in his heart, suffered something along a mental breakdown and decided that he can just as well drown the world in blood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  13. #313
    Allowed the semi-sentient horde to still exist.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharivor View Post
    The Purge of Dalaran was undoubtedly evil, but not sanctioned by Varian so I' m not sure that counts.
    Varian sent a regiment of Stormwind troops to help her out...


    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    Not to mentioned it was retconned to Jaina teleporting people into prisons, and only killing those that fought back.

    Not super heinous to me.
    But that was in regards to what Jaina herself was doing. Nothing about the actions of Silver Covenant goons she let out on the city has been changed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    How many of those elves actually founded the city or lived in the city for thousands of years? And it wasn't an entire race that was going to get kicked out, it was only the ones who chose to side with the Horde and be called blood elves. All those Silver Covenant members were just fine.

    Also it was more than one person and they sided with a guy who nuked Theramore. If someone is slaughtering innocents and trying to wipe races off the face of the planet and you side with them of course people are going to be suspicious of you. And we have no idea how long the blood elf ban would have lasted.

    Talanji came out of nowhere had a powerful person with visions of the future as a teacher who then died (same as Yrel except Zul was evil and velen wasn't), has a strong tie to the light, and had an older better family member die for them. The only difference between the two is that Yrel was turned into a space Nazi to give a reason for mag'har to exist. And so Talanjis dad went from bad ass god king to inept and senile ruler with a single expansion.
    Does it matter? The high elves were the only reason the city was even founded, and lived there from day one. It's like a city with two separate aboriginal peoples living in it together. And because a handful of them did something bad, the other side decided they had to leave or die. The high/blood divide is irrelevant to the argument. They were already blood elves and hadn't even done anything the first time Dalaran tried to exterminate them.

    Besides Thalen did we see ANY blood elves supporting Garrosh? All the named blood elves we know of were disgusted by Theramore and wanted nothing to do with it. Even Blizzard went out and said the most involved Aethas Sunreaver had was knowing there was going to be a robbery and not doing anything. "Hey, all you Native Americans, you're no longer allowed in America. Get out or we'll kill you. We might decide to let you back in later." Do you have any idea how wrong that is?

    So your argument is that you're mad that a powerful priestess... was a powerful priestess when she was first introduced instead of having to grow from nothing in front of our eyes. Wow, someone better tell Jaina she's a bad character cause she was a powerful mage from when she was introduced. Zul was portrayed as someone Talanji disliked and distrusted from the beginning. Not sure how you got the idea he was a teacher figure to Talanji, except making it up to try to draw a paralell between her and Yrel. And finally, your comment of Rastakhan becoming inept and senile is just your opinion.
    I'm not a supporter of Blizzard, I'm an opponent of stupid.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Enslaving Pandarens in the Jade Forest, there's no indication anywhere in text that this was done without authorization or was ever punished in anyway, and it is completely unambiguous that they are being held and forced to work against their will.
    I've done the Alliance lines through Jade Forest many times, and I have no recollection of this at all. Where does this happen? At the Horde end, where the Horde get to attack a major Alliance presence that Alliance players never know a thing about?

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Why are Alliance-leaning posters always magically forgetting that the most common result of any and all wars ever fought was forcing the defeated party to GTFO back home rather than killing them all or setting up a giant internment system for them?

    And other than railing about MUH HORDE FANATICS what exactly do you have to support that notion? Khadgar deactivated the Dark Portal from Azerothian side only after the Second War ended. Nothing prevented him from doing that only after the Orcs were marched through it if that was Alliance's decision.
    Yes, because after them attacking humanity TWICE already, destroying Stormwind on the second time with who knows how many victims, just sending them home with a stern talking to is a reasonable idea! They would never try a third time, would they? My god, Mehrunes,... just try a bit common sense instead of "everything the Alliance does is wrong" once in a while. They were alien invaders, allied with demons. Of course you do not just let them go so they can try again next year.
    Last edited by Raisei; 2020-05-20 at 11:50 AM.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    1) It's not an ethnic group.
    Since the Blood Elf-High Elf split it can be seen as one. And if not, it's a political group. And political cleansing isn't any better compared to ethnic cleansing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    2) They were offered the chance to leave the city peacefully. In spite of overwhelming odds against him, Aethas refused to listen to Jaina. He is equally guilty for whoever died in that Purge.
    What "overwhelming odds"? Jaina had neither the authority nor the grounds for even the her demand for the Sunreavers to leave the city, let alone her purge.


    Quote Originally Posted by StaeleAilar View Post
    Were any of these sanctioned by the leadership of the alliance though?

    I'm not sure about the goblin ships one (genuinely don't know, but i know it happened), Purge of Dalaran was by Jaina and Vereesa's factions within the Kirin Tor (and supposedly happened at a time where Varian was trying to bring the Belves back to the alliance - therefore i don't know that this would count as being sanctioned by the leaders either).
    As for Turajo, unless im mistaken, didn't most of them die to the quillboar or whatever when they ran towards RFK, after the alliance soldiers were told to create gaps for the civilians to run through?

    Technically all of the actions are bad, but im really not sure any of them were sanctioned by anyone speaking for the alliance.
    Varian still sent military personnel to help Jaina out with the Purge. And high ranking Alliance officers carrying out military actions against the enemy of the Horde while acting under the banner of the Alliance are kinda representative of the Alliance. It's not like any of the commanders above was even reprimanded for their actions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    They were not an ethnic group though, but a political organization as well as a militia allied with a militaristic fantasy-fascist regime, who commited treason by supporting an enemy of the state they were living. Not to forget that we are trying about a population which one time conned humans into summoning the burning legion on Azeroth and afterwards tried to do it themselves. I mean, the Blood Elves have kind of a culture of terrorism which dates back to the days after the sundering, when they commited acts of terrorism against the new night elf nation. I mean, yeah, if a shop keeper who is also a member of a known and hostile terrorist organization barricades himself into his shop and attacks authorities who are entering it, they get killed.
    Vereesa's goons aren't "authorities". If you want to talk about militias, look no further than the Silver Covenant. Because unlike them the Sunreavers still had a seat in the Council of Six while Vereesa has never had any position within the power structure of Dalaran. And the rest of your post is even more nonsensical. When did Sunreavers con humans into summoning the Burning Legion to Azeroth? Never. Neither have Blood Elves in general because for some disingenuous reason you're treating both groups as the same.

    The same applies to "Sunreavers" summoning the Legion themselves. Sunreavers were formed only after TBC. From Blood Elves that opposed Kael. So even if you want to badmouth Blood Elves in general that "point" still falls flat. You trying to conflate Sunreavers with the Highborne is even more ridiculous.

    And looping back to the Purge, there's no "they". War Crimes flat out states there was a singular Surneaver agent working for Garrosh. And Jaina committed treason against Dalaran first by violating its neutrality when she aided the Alliance at Darnassus.


    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    Purge was done by jaina in the name of Kirin tor. Varian never authorized it.
    The Alliance doesn't work in a fashion where its members need the High King's seal of approval. Besides the High King stuff came only after the Purge. And Varian still helped Jaina out during the Purge.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    It is explicitly said that we are only killing those that have taken up arms and try to kill us, twice. Jaina has already teleported anyone away that did not attack.

    And well, it might be Jaina and the Alliance doing the purging in the end, but who is responsible for it?
    1) Garrosh for abusing the Kirin Tor's neutrality to transport his new WMD
    2) Aethas for knowing this and not alerting the rest of the Kirin Tor, despite very well knowing what Garrosh did with the last WMD he got his hands on.
    Had Jaina sat on her ass in Dalaran instead of violating its neutrality by aiding Darnassus, she'd have been in the position to spot a giant bell being transported through her city. And you accidentally left the part of Aethas being blackmailed by Garrosh with the fate of all non-Sunreaver agents that didn't have the safety of Dalaran protecting them from his reach.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Was Jaina supposed to just ignore this direct threat to thousands of lifes because of Dalarans neutrality? Was she supposed to sit by while the Horde made a mockery of said neutrality? Patiently waiting for the next bomb to blow up? I guess the Horde playerbase would love that.
    She made a mockery of it first. And yes, that's precisely what she was supposed to do because that's what neutrality entails.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    It's the old song, the Horde just wants to see the Alliance on the same level they are at, while it is quite clear that all offensive action of the Alliance follows some or another atrocity the Horde commited.
    Except the Horde "atrocity" here that was followed by Alliance was a theft.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    So as for the thread title question. I guess the Stonespires count, but then that was the League of Explorers, not the Alliance. But I guess that would be nitpicking. Apart from that I cannot think of anything evil or heinous the Alliance has done.
    You don't say. You blew some minds right here. Especially in light of some other examples having been given by the time you made this post.


    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    not sure if varian was there or not,wasnt it the varian clone?either way,it was opnyxias doing and the nobles that were tricked by her
    Varian disappeared only after the Third War was already over.


    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    ah you mean the lordaeron guy of the people that are now horde?hahaha,also what he did was betray the elves,he didnt atempt MULTIPLE genosides and child burnings,nice try doe
    But they weren't Horde when he did the things he did. On top of Garithos himself never joining the Horde. Or the part the Lordaeronians who'd eventually join the Horde were already undead by that point, while he led the ones that survived the Scourge and as such also never joined the Horde. This attempt at a gotcha still makes no sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Amaterasu65 View Post
    It's the only one they got, that and tAuRajO.
    Weirdly enough even though you wrote this "insightful" remark at the end of page four there have already been multiple other examples prior to that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    u serious ?
    Draenei : literally cause the extinction of millions of billions of life forms in their escape from BL to stay alive, knowing very well they damning everywhere they go, instead of stay and fight like their HD version literally did, heck even Dreanor they stayed for 300 years not telling orcs anything, not to mention that they look exactly like demons yet don't tell anything (most their race is pure evil eredar)
    Good victim blaming here. I 'love' the way the Draenei get accused of 'leading' the Legion to various worlds, when the Legion isn't following them so much as casting a net, trying to find them. But here we have you, like so many others, blaming the refugees because their murderers are still trying to kill them.
    Nelf : blowing up the world, wipe out troll tribes to take over their land (ignoring the fact they evolved from trolls, they refuse it), attack orcs on sight because how dare they try to stay alive and cut trees so their kids don't die from weather effects
    It wasn't the Night Elves who summoned the Legion. And you're blaming them for shooting up the guys who are tearing up their homes, and the homes of their friends and allies (the sprites, the dryads, the firblogs, and so on). Wow.
    Gnomes : nothing i guess major, they are a joke even from alliance pov
    Gnomes gave the Alliance their submarines and flying machines. Gnomes are useful, but require someone with common sense keeping an eye on them.
    Dwarfs : the dwarf tribe that digged tauren remains in Barrens, entire AV deal which alliance flat out admit they invading it to take it
    Try to take it back. It's not as if the orcs have actually been there very long, now is it?
    Humans : the creme of cream, their list is massive, everything they did they see it right since they are light chosen and never do mistakes, their favorite hobby is basically attempting genocide against any race they feel weaker, that list include belfs (twice), goblins of kezan for just existing, darkspear trolls for just exist in their own home in island in middle of ocean!, forsaken for just exist, trolls of all kind to take over their lands
    Ironic because high elf still kissing alliance a88 the genocide against amani trolls is on high elf hands, even if blood elf are the one living in quel'thalas, but as long high elfs insist they aren't belfs, it is on their hands
    And now, when it would otherwise put blood on Horde hands, you suddenly notice that there's more than one group of elves.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Amaterasu65 View Post
    Another mistake of the Alliance you pointed out. She should have just tsunami'd Orgrimmar. The elves would put some pressure to the Tauren since most orcs and trolls would have drowned and the BEs/Undead wouldn't retaliate much considering the BE were on talks with the Alliance to rejoin during that period. Sylvanas would never have that much power to start a war, commit genocide and feed souls to big daddy Satan. WoD wouldn't have happened and we wouldn't have Gul'dan bring the Legion back to Azeroth, yay?
    Except for the part where we've been given information about the timeline in which Jaina did drown Orgrimmar at the end of War Crimes and in that timeline the Horde outright eradicated the Alliance. And your periods are wrong. The Blood Elves opened talks only after the events of 5.1.


    Quote Originally Posted by Amaterasu65 View Post
    Everything in the past, present and future is Anduin's fault in the zugzug world.
    Yes, a poster with Uther avatar is totally a part of your "zugzug world".


    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    At the time of its founding, Theramore was home to all of the surviving forces of the Alliance (with the Burning Legion having already ravaged northern Eastern Kingdoms at the time). Theramore was founded alongside Durotar; it wasn't alongside native Horde lands when the Horde hadn't settled there yet. I think Theramore remained a valid target for attack, but its construction was very different than China creating a colony alongside a pre-existing nation.
    That is true, but what @WonderZebra has said actually aptly describes a big Alliance settlement in the area. It's just it described Northwatch rather than Theramore. And while Daelin constructing it was one thing, but Jaina - in all her "wisdom" - deciding to not only keep it but to keep it manned with the people she inherited from her father, is another. Lo and behold, it's precisely folks from Northwatch that attacked the Barrens shortly before Garrosh waltzed into Ashenvale.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    Garithos was bad, but I would say Daelin was far worse. Garithos left his allies to die; Daelin outright attacked them. If Garithos hadn't done what he had done, Blood Elves might be Alliance. If Daelin hadn't done what he did, there might not even be separate factions.
    But he didn't just leave them to die. He deliberately sent them on a suicide mission so that he would have an opportunity to leave them to die. Though how even that compares to Daelin's idiocy is subject to personal opinion I'd say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

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