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  1. #41
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    Wiping out a huge chunk of Forest trolls during the Troll Wars.

    Although that was the Alliance between High elves and Humans. *shrug*

  2. #42
    The Alliance hasnt done really evil things which the government turned a blind eye. Camp turajo happend cuz one ranking officer was racist and the horde actually killed the high ranking officer who was the only one at that place making sure turajo wasnt sacked. The internment camps werent really evil, yes the treatment were bad, but what would you do against a specie that basically slaughtered almost the entire humanity. Would you just give them a normal prison? No, cuz that would cause an internal strive within the Alliance that the orcs need to be punished.

    Every single Alliance action is justifiable, hordes not so much. After lich king, horde got Azshara but still invaded Ashenvale and started killing everyone. Why would you even attack if you got a zone that`s a really good price. Then there is the time where horde soldiers attacked the Alliance from behind and called it glorious. The Alliance at the time were fighting the scourge, heck even garrosh is glad about it, a high ranking officer. Then there is garrosh who started destroying his own horde. Sylvanis allowing the invasion in kul tiras where people get spiked against walls and such. Sylvanis tortures infront of everyone and all find it okay cuz she got the support of the people, she burnes Teldrassil and people of horde celebrate it, and i can go on and on.

    I havent forgotten the bombing of theramore, but that wasnt evil it was strategic. Theramore was there for a long time and was expanding, this is an agressive act. What did garrosh? He let information get out that he would attack theramore so that civillians wouldnt be there and then bombed it.

    Cataclysme garrosh was in my opinion the best one, but in MoP they just ruined him. In cataclysme you can see that he condemns the bombing of a druidisme academy and kills the general for it.

  3. #43
    They let the horde live. Nothing more evil than that tbh.
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  4. #44
    I think the problem you are going to run into is in WCI and II the alliance were written as the actual unambiguous good guys and the horde are written as the unambiguous bad guys. Then when you factor in that during WoW the alliance are written as a painfully generic reactive lawful boring faction and it just gets worse.*



    *Dont even get me started on the missed story potential of political infighting being an alliance essentially be erased by creating the post of blue warchief (because they couldn't be bothered writing multiple characters per patch in the alliance side). And now the hilarity that the horde is going to be ruled by a council, blizzard are clowns.

  5. #45
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Their crimes against nuance.

  6. #46
    Killing the Stonespire Tribe is among the only ones that would rank in a list that also included the Horde, since they were massacred solely so that the dwarves could loot shit that was on their land, outside of any warfare. By comparison shit like Brennadam from the Horde or Comrade Umbric telling you that the only thing Gallywix's waitresses have to lose are their chains (that connect them to their mortal coil) is at least part of some ongoing conflict.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2020-05-19 at 12:03 PM.
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  7. #47
    Not fully on topic but as a more or less only Horde Player I'll give my two cents about my one of the reason for dislike the alliance.

    Simple answer; Theramore. They build a fortified settlment on the boundary of native Horde lands. Use it as a staging ground to invade said lands. Then act like its destruction is somehow evil. The fact writers of wow don't realise that Thermores destruction was perfectly validly just because the ineffectual leader of the city failed to enforce her pacifist ideals.

    Imagine that in a real life situation. If china settled a island of the coast of American and turned it into a forfited military staging ground. It would be considered a vaild target.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Killing the Stonespire Tribe is among the only ones that would rank in a list that also included the Horde, since they were massacred solely so that the dwarves could loot shit that was on their land, outside of any warfare. By comparison shit like Brennadam from the Horde or Comrade Umbric telling you that the only thing Gallywix's waitresses have to lose are their chains (that connect them to their mortal coil) is at least part of some ongoing conflict.
    Damn... now I wish Umbric said this verbatim in the quest and I'm a little sad he doesn't !

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    Killing Rastakhan? And invading Dazar'alor
    OP asked for evil stuff, not greatest

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    Not fully on topic but as a more or less only Horde Player I'll give my two cents about my one of the reason for dislike the alliance.

    Simple answer; Theramore. They build a fortified settlment on the boundary of native Horde lands. Use it as a staging ground to invade said lands. Then act like its destruction is somehow evil. The fact writers of wow don't realise that Thermores destruction was perfectly validly just because the ineffectual leader of the city failed to enforce her pacifist ideals.

    Imagine that in a real life situation. If china settled a island of the coast of American and turned it into a forfited military staging ground. It would be considered a vaild target.
    The main problem with Theramore is that it was erected at a time when the Eastern Kingdoms were supposedly lost entitely, being the last bastion of human and dwarves and high elves on Azeroth. And it was established far from the fertile lands of Mulgore or even Durotar.

    When the devastation of the Scourge + Legion was tonned down a lot, it left it in a strange position. Then Blizzard did an awful work with Cataclysm + Wolfheart so that it becomes almost impossible to know who struck first.

    I think Garrosh assaulted Ashenvale first but it's not clear at all and even if he does, the timeline there makes no fucking sense whatsoever (if Genn is here, the Horde have already invaded Gilneas and yet the Alliance can travel freely toward Teldrassil and then Ashenvale without much difficulty and no mention of Theramore's forces pressing North) and is one of the many mistakes which made the whole Cataclysm Era a mess.

    As a side note, I'd point out to Hammerfall (Hammerfell?) And Stonard for locations the Horde parked just next to Alliance lands - I guess Grom'gol could count also but it seems to be farther away ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leyre View Post
    OP asked for evil stuff, not greatest
    It would have been great if Anduin and Jaina had used their brains.

    Invading an hostile's nation capital to only inflict minimum casualties is a dumb plan.

    If they truly wanted the Zandalari to reconsider their alliance with the Horde, they should have destroyed Dazar'alor as much as possible and outright demolished their future ability to wage war. Which includes a lot of civilian casualties.

    It'd also served as a clear warning to other neutral or Horde leaning groups (such as the Vulperas) that helping the Horde meant utter destruction.

    As it was waged, all that Dazar'alor assault ever could have produced was cementing the hold of the Horde on Zandalar. And it did.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    The main problem with Theramore is that it was erected at a time when the Eastern Kingdoms were supposedly lost entitely, being the last bastion of human and dwarves and high elves on Azeroth. And it was established far from the fertile lands of Mulgore or even Durotar.

    When the devastation of the Scourge + Legion was tonned down a lot, it left it in a strange position. Then Blizzard did an awful work with Cataclysm + Wolfheart so that it becomes almost impossible to know who struck first.

    I think Garrosh assaulted Ashenvale first but it's not clear at all and even if he does, the timeline there makes no fucking sense whatsoever (if Genn is here, the Horde have already invaded Gilneas and yet the Alliance can travel freely toward Teldrassil and then Ashenvale without much difficulty and no mention of Theramore's forces pressing North) and is one of the many mistakes which made the whole Cataclysm Era a mess.

    As a side note, I'd point out to Hammerfall (Hammerfell?) And Stonard for locations the Horde parked just next to Alliance lands - I guess Grom'gol could count also but it seems to be farther away ?
    My issue with Theramore is less that it exists because the Horde absolutely does the same thing but the in universe reaction to its destruction. If stonard, hammerfall or any other such base was destroyed id agree those were vaild.

    The neutral factions decry the Horde destroying Theramore. Why? Because Jaina is a pacifist? Her city state wasn't it was being used as a staging ground. Etc etc. The Horde were already at war and theramore soldiers attack orcs in durotar. So their not neutral.

    For me it just highlights the Horde is still a faction of outcasts. The neutral factions are all allaince leaning. For what its worth the "Family of Outcasts" is the version of the Horde i like.

  12. #52
    Displacing native trolls, the Alliance hate the Horde because they had to go through what they did to trolls.

  13. #53
    I think that the Theramore outcry comes from a) the means of its destruction and b) it was Garrosh who ordered it - and I think at that point he had already stated that he wanted to wipe out all non Hordes, at least on Kalimdor ?

  14. #54
    The Purge of Dalaran was undoubtedly evil, but not sanctioned by Varian so I' m not sure that counts.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharivor View Post
    The Purge of Dalaran was undoubtedly evil, but not sanctioned by Varian so I' m not sure that counts.
    Not to mentioned it was retconned to Jaina teleporting people into prisons, and only killing those that fought back.

    Not super heinous to me.
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    Not to mentioned it was retconned to Jaina teleporting people into prisons, and only killing those that fought back.

    Not super heinous to me.
    Even with such a retcon, its still a pogrom. Forcibly driving out all members of an ethnic group from their homes because of the actions of one individual is very much heinous; I don't think I need to list the countless real world examples to demonstrate that.

    I mean if you play the Alliance side of the scenario its very explicit: those "fighting back" which you are told to kill include civilian shopkeepers who don't want to abandon their homes and livelihoods, a man trying to withdraw his money from the bank before he leaves, and the flight-masters who are providing the fleeing civilians a way to escape. I can't think of any way that would not be classified as unjustified murder.
    Last edited by Tharivor; 2020-05-19 at 01:03 PM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharivor View Post
    Even with such a retcon, its still a pogrom. Forcibly driving out all members of an ethnic group from their homes because of the actions of one individual is very much heinous; I don't think I need to list the countless real world examples to demonstrate that.

    I mean if you play the Alliance side of the scenario its very explicit: those "fighting back" which you are told to kill include civilian shopkeepers who don't want to abandon their homes and livelihoods, a man trying to withdraw his money from the bank before he leaves, and the flight-masters who are providing the fleeing civilians a way to escape. I can't think of any way that would not be classified as unjustified murder.
    I suppose, but compared to what else goes on in WoW, being put in prison and being let out again later is nothing.
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Not ending the Horde when they had the chance.
    And vice versa with Alliance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Shot and sank numerous goblin ships fleeing from Kezan. The Purge of Dalaran. The burning of Camp Taurajo.

    Just to name a few.
    Genocide of Stonespire Tribe.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
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    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    I suppose, but compared to what else goes on in WoW, being put in prison and being let out again later is nothing.
    Being violently driven from your home and killed if you resist is pretty much the worst that can happen to you aside from actually dying, and thats ignoring the many who did die for the terrible crime of not wanting to abandon their homes. By the logic of "worse things happen in WoW", Theramore was a great mercy because hey at least he didn't feed their souls to the Legion. In the modern world it would be defined as a War Crime.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Lol now I wonder how long a Horde version of this thread would be.
    Depends whether you treat the warchief as legal. Apparently, Alliance always consider warchief illegal, as opposed to rebels.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

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