how did AoL become the Grand Alliance?

[plz delete account]

When Lordaeron fell, did the gnomes, dwarves, and Jaina just roll up to Stormwind and Darnassus respectively and tell them, "Look at me. You are the Alliance now." in Captain Philips is having his boat taken over by pirates fashion? I can't really seem to find anything that explains how the AoL transitioned to the Grand Alliance, but maybe I'm just blind, and as such have missed something really obvious.

[Manariel]

I don't think Blizzard ever truly explained shit about it.

My guess is that Varian, at least, felt responsible and extended a hand to Magni, cementing what remained of the Alliance of Lordaeron. By the, Dalaran was in ruins and isolated itself behind its bubble, Lordaeron had fallen without hope and Stormgarde was in disrepair. As for Gilneas, it had long gone silent behind its wall. Kul Tiras stormed off as soon as it became clear that the Alliance would do nothing against the Horde and not punish Theramore. I guess the Night Elves felt the need to have allies when the Horde on their doorstop, or something.

But honestly, when it comes to the Faction's creation, Blizzard's lore is kind of a mess. Supposedly, Thrall's Horde is "the New Horde" even while it was reformed under Orgrim Doomhammer (last Warchief of the Old Horde), filled with veterans of this era (the Warsongs, a lot of Blackrocks and even the Frostwolves, tengentially on Azeroth but definitively a part of it on Draenor). Meanwhile, the Alliance of WoW is supposedly the same Alliance of Lordaeron, when the dwarves seemed to be - at first - largely out of this human Alliance (Khaz Modan being entirely occupied by the Horde during the Second War) thus leaving Stormwind and Theramore as the sole full members of the AoL in the Classic Alliance...

To sum it up, it's not really worth trying to understand how - if it even did - the AoL became the Grand Alliance.

[Koryn123]

When Lordaeron fell, did the gnomes, dwarves, and Jaina just roll up to Stormwind and Darnassus respectively and tell them, "Look at me. You are the Alliance now." in Captain Philips is having his boat taken over by pirates fashion? I can't really seem to find anything that explains how the AoL transitioned to the Grand Alliance, but maybe I'm just blind, and as such have missed something really obvious.

Well, Stormwind was dissolved before the Grand Alliance was formed, but before it was broken by Arthas and the Scourge, I have no doubt that Stormwind joined it. The US was one of the primary founders and remains the primary funder of the United Nations, but it would still remain in some capacity if the US left it or was destroyed by some enemy.

The state of the AoL in WC2 was:

All human kingdoms minus Alterac when the rest of the Alliance attacked them as punishment for their king's betrayal, Quel'thalas, Khaz Modan, and the gnomes.

By the time of Vanilla WoW, Gilneas had pulled their support and walled themselves off, showing no semblance of friendship.

Stromgarde had pulled back when Terenas refused to execute the orcs, but they always remained friendly to the other kingdoms.

Quel'thalas left at the end of WC2 citing elven casualties, but really they just didn't want to be involved in what they saw as human affairs anymore. They were still friendly to the Alliance in the same way as Stromgarde however, and Kael'thas gladly rejoined them to help fight the Scourge, and it was still the supposed Grand Alliance of Lordaeron, as he calls it a "failing Alliance" when it seems to be crumbling under Garithos' leadership. By Vanilla WoW, the Blood Elves were dealing with their own problems in Azeroth, but the High Elves remained friendly to the Alliance.

Dalaran was weakened and gathering their strength, but still technically members. It wasn't until WotLK that they declared themselves neutral officially (not just small groups of NPCs outside Karazhan) and could be considered to no longer be Alliance members.

Kul Tiras left when Daelin died and the rest of the Alliance refused to help avenge him, so they were gone by Vanilla.

(Bolded groups are those who remain as active members, not merely friendlies, from WC2 days at the time of Vanilla and no later)

Grand Alliance of Lordaeron Members

Lordaeron
Gilneas
Stromgarde
Kul Tiras
Dalaran
Stormwind (remnants)
Bronzebeard Dwarves
Wildhammer Dwarves
Gnomes
Quel'thalas


Vanilla Alliance Members

Lordaeron (remnants, such as Hillsbrad humans, and the Scarlet Crusade who considered them allies and were sent aid in the form of players who discovered their fanaticism.)
Dalaran (however weakened they were)
Stormwind
Bronzebeard Dwarves
Gnomes
Night Elves

So most of the Vanilla groups were original members, even if Stormwind wasn't technically active as a kingdom at the time, its soldiers certainly were, and their pooled army was led by Anduin Lothar from Stormwind. I include Lordaeron groups like those in Hillsbrad and not others like elves at Quel'lithien Lodge or the dwarves at Aerie Peak because they seemed more just friendly, and not active members who considered themselves Alliance and enemies of the Horde.

[matrix123mko]

When Lordaeron fell, did the gnomes, dwarves, and Jaina just roll up to Stormwind and Darnassus respectively and tell them, "Look at me. You are the Alliance now." in Captain Philips is having his boat taken over by pirates fashion? I can't really seem to find anything that explains how the AoL transitioned to the Grand Alliance, but maybe I'm just blind, and as such have missed something really obvious.

I believe Stormwind agreed with Ironforge that they can change the name as Lordearon has fallen.

[Feanoro]

Metzen "kinda forgot" to explain that, and the only thing we have is a one liner about it.

[Saltysquidoon]

Yes it is an odd duck. like I said in the other thread I assume after the demons and undead died down due to the events of TfT there must have been a meeting between the dwarves (and gnomes) and Stormwind to reaffirm their mutual support.

It would also be nice to be shown how and why the night elves joined beyond "there has to be two factions LMAO".

[Schattenlied]

Well, Stormwind was dissolved before the Grand Alliance was formed, but before it was broken by Arthas and the Scourge, I have no doubt that Stormwind joined it. The US was one of the primary founders and remains the primary funder of the United Nations, but it would still remain in some capacity if the US left it or was destroyed by some enemy.

The state of the AoL in WC2 was:

All human kingdoms minus Alterac when the rest of the Alliance attacked them as punishment for their king's betrayal, Quel'thalas, Khaz Modan, and the gnomes.

By the time of Vanilla WoW, Gilneas had pulled their support and walled themselves off, showing no semblance of friendship.

Stromgarde had pulled back when Terenas refused to execute the orcs, but they always remained friendly to the other kingdoms.

Quel'thalas left at the end of WC2 citing elven casualties, but really they just didn't want to be involved in what they saw as human affairs anymore. They were still friendly to the Alliance in the same way as Stromgarde however, and Kael'thas gladly rejoined them to help fight the Scourge, and it was still the supposed Grand Alliance of Lordaeron, as he calls it a "failing Alliance" when it seems to be crumbling under Garithos' leadership. By Vanilla WoW, the Blood Elves were dealing with their own problems in Azeroth, but the High Elves remained friendly to the Alliance.

Dalaran was weakened and gathering their strength, but still technically members. It wasn't until WotLK that they declared themselves neutral officially (not just small groups of NPCs outside Karazhan) and could be considered to no longer be Alliance members.

Kul Tiras left when Daelin died and the rest of the Alliance refused to help avenge him, so they were gone by Vanilla.

(Bolded groups are those who remain as active members, not merely friendlies, from WC2 days at the time of Vanilla and no later)

Grand Alliance of Lordaeron Members

Lordaeron
Gilneas
Stromgarde
Kul Tiras
Dalaran
Stormwind (remnants)
Bronzebeard Dwarves
Wildhammer Dwarves
Gnomes
Quel'thalas


Vanilla Alliance Members

Lordaeron (remnants, such as Hillsbrad humans, and the Scarlet Crusade who considered them allies and were sent aid in the form of players who discovered their fanaticism.)
Dalaran (however weakened they were)
Stormwind
Bronzebeard Dwarves
Gnomes
Night Elves

So most of the Vanilla groups were original members, even if Stormwind wasn't technically active as a kingdom at the time, its soldiers certainly were, and their pooled army was led by Anduin Lothar from Stormwind. I include Lordaeron groups like those in Hillsbrad and not others like elves at Quel'lithien Lodge or the dwarves at Aerie Peak because they seemed more just friendly, and not active members who considered themselves Alliance and enemies of the Horde.

You seem confused about the names here.

The 'Alliance of Lordaeron' existed up until the events of WC3, the 'Grand Alliance' is what formed afterwards, AKA the WoW Alliance.

[Koryn123]

You seem confused about the names here.

The 'Alliance of Lordaeron' existed up until the events of WC3, the 'Grand Alliance' is what formed afterwards, AKA the WoW Alliance.

I see. My mistake.

My headcanon for how the Night Elves came to join the Alliance was that the Warsong Clan, independently of the Horde and with no support in supplies or troops from Thrall, began harvesting lumber again to give to the Horde (I think that's actually what they were doing canonically, and Thrall just didn't turn them down and accepted the gift). Then my headcanon is that the Night Elves, still weakened after Archimonde's attack, and with their entire military defense structure still based on the outdated system of trying to protect against a potential attack by Silithid from the south, have their Sentinel base at Feathermoon Stronghold off the coast of Desolace, so Ashenvale is very vulnerable. They're mad at the Horde because Thrall isn't stopping the Warsong Clan (or they just assume it's the Horde fully), and ask Theramore for help. Jaina at this point is still devoted to peace and has a non-aggression treaty with the Horde and has no need of the night elves' lumber because she gets welfare from Stormwind and Ironforge, so instead, she bends the rule as far as she can without snapping it entirely by putting the Night Elves in touch with Stormwind and Ironforge who I guess were still mad enough at the orcs to get involved, and Jaina allowed them to use Theramore as a fortified position to garrison and transport their troops into Kalimdor to fight and kill Horde. She also builds them a highway to make it easier for them to get to the Barrens and Ashenvale, so she's sort of doing everything she can to help them kill the Horde short of actively attacking them herself.

Now the Night Elves have the Alliance helping them at Warsong Gulch, and I believe that to be the focal point and cause of renewed hostilities in Vanilla WoW.

[Soon-TM]

It would be nice to have a more detailed account of Forsaken's admission in the Horde, and NEs admission in the Alliance. Especially the latter, which is a huge plot hole, since NEs should have been neutral to both A and H, going by the ending of the RoC campaign. Even in TFT, Tyrande is willing to help Kael's expeditionary force.

[Feanoro]

It would be nice to have a more detailed account of Forsaken's admission in the Horde, and NEs admission in the Alliance. Especially the latter, which is a huge plot hole, since NEs should have been neutral to both A and H, going by the ending of the RoC campaign. Even in TFT, Tyrande is willing to help Kael's expeditionary force.

The detailed account involves Metzen, booze, a metal concert, and no regrets due to piles of cash.

[Ardenaso]

I made a similar post before.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Grand-Alliance

I also had the AoL =/= Alliance mentality but I got schooled hard for it so now I think otherwise

[Rexosaurus]

Well we already know that the dev team apparently didn't even know the difference between the Forsaken and the Scourge, and that they just wanted to play as evil zombies on the Horde. Considering that, I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that any story about the Night Elves joining the Alliance was retroactively shoehorned in by Metzen/the story team.

I think we were supposed to infer something along the lines of what Loadbearer is talking about with the Warsong Clan resuming lumbering activities in Ashenvale. No one ever came right out and gave a full canon rundown of how it happened though.