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  1. #1

    If Rapid Fire was gone.

    Would MM be better if Rapid Fire was replaced completely with Chimaera shot?
    I have been wondering whether one of the main problems with MM in BfA is Rapid Fire. As has been discussed before, it is not a fun or interesting ability to use except as a vehicle for Trick Shots. Not ot mention it might as well have been on life support the entirety of BfA, being the only DPS ability to get Azerite Traits after launch.

    Would anyone miss Rapid Fire if it was gone? Obviously if we just remove it and nothing else the already anemic rotation is drained a bit further, but it would also free up the GCD to more inventive builds.
    Which lead me to Chimaera shot. It has not been a part of the rotation since WoD, and while I don't like it doing nature/frist damage I do like the ability conceptually.
    If we replaced Rapid Fire with Chimaera shot does anyone else think the spec would be better? And by replace I essentially mean the treatment Barbed shot got for Dire beast, where we just replace it in the talent tree, allowing players who truly enjoyed it to replace Chimaera shot with it again.

  2. #2
    fuck rapid fire

  3. #3
    Also seems I mispelled the shot in question several times. How careless.

    What I meant to say is Seizure Shot.
    God it looks ugly.

  4. #4
    The Patient
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    Chim shot was neat, i guess the only thing was that it was kind of ironic that a key ability of what is basically the sniper spec is vastly more efficient in multi target fights.

    They should bring it back and also solve the problem of hunters mark being tedious, give hunters mark a passive like "If only one target is affected by hunters mark, both arrows from Chimaera shot will hit that target"

  5. #5
    I love rapid fire. It looks great, has some depth in it (you must play smart if you want to get full channel off without being interrupted, you can continue to channel through even if target goes out of your Los, so you can plan around it if you know you will need to take cover at some point etc.)

    Why would you want to exchange it with chimera shot which has boring aesthetics and 0depth in it?

  6. #6
    Trick Shot + Rapid Fire on AOE is one of the most satisfying things you can do in WoW imo

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    I love rapid fire. It looks great, has some depth in it (you must play smart if you want to get full channel off without being interrupted, you can continue to channel through even if target goes out of your Los, so you can plan around it if you know you will need to take cover at some point etc.)

    Why would you want to exchange it with chimera shot which has boring aesthetics and 0depth in it?
    Chimaera shot would give MM players back the cleave they were once so good at, and possibly even give players a way to get trick shots with only 2 enemies.

    Also, as I mentioned above. I think rapid Fire is a severe limitation on the rotation of MM. It takes up so much of your rotation for no better reason than to use it. It doesnt bring much to the table so to speak. And while Chimaera shot is similar in that regard I personally think that it would be a more satifying button to press. As well as easier to fit into a more talent-friendly rotation compared to Rapid Fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Trick Shot + Rapid Fire on AOE is one of the most satisfying things you can do in WoW imo
    So is Trick Shots+Aimed Shot. Removing Rapid Fire means you do not dilute that feeling between more abilities. Especially in Shadowlands where you can also pick Volley.

  8. #8
    Rapid fire should have a baseline aoe effect like barrage, to not cancel when your target dies. We get already bamboozled this way when casting aimed shots.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninyo View Post
    Rapid fire should have a baseline aoe effect like barrage, to not cancel when your target dies. We get already bamboozled this way when casting aimed shots.
    That could work, though it would just beg teh question of why we don't just get barrage baseline. Maybe if we massively increased the cooldown of Rapid Fire and then had the Barrage taletn upgrade it.

  10. #10
    I like Rapid Fire a lot and would be sad to see it go. Double-tapping a Rapid Fire, especially into an AoE, is extremely fun even if the animation is a bit wonky. Personally I've decked my Hunter out in Rapid Fire traits and I like to run around in battlegrounds pumping out double-tapped Rapid Fires

    That said, I do think MM needs a better strong instant-cast option than what it has now, and I'm not convinced adding Chimera Shot as a talent option is enough.

    They should also make a couple changes:
    - Greatly shorten its channel time while in Trueshot. It doesn't feel good to cap on Aimed Shot charges because you're channelling a Rapid Fire.
    - Rework Streamline to cause Rapid Fire to deliver more shots instead of lengthening the channel. Lengthening the channel doesn't really work well with the flow of the spec and compounds the above issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    So is Trick Shots+Aimed Shot. Removing Rapid Fire means you do not dilute that feeling between more abilities. Especially in Shadowlands where you can also pick Volley.
    This really doesn't make sense. "Diluting" the feeling between two abilities? What does that even mean? It feels good with Rapid Fire just like it does with Aimed Shot. Having both in there doesn't worsen either of them.
    Last edited by FpicEail; 2020-05-20 at 03:39 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    I like Rapid Fire a lot and would be sad to see it go. Double-tapping a Rapid Fire, especially into an AoE, is extremely fun even if the animation is a bit wonky. Personally I've decked my Hunter out in Rapid Fire traits and I like to run around in battlegrounds pumping out double-tapped Rapid Fires

    That said, I do think MM needs a better strong instant-cast option than what it has now, and I'm not convinced adding Chimera Shot as a talent option is enough.

    They should also make a couple changes:
    - Greatly shorten its channel time while in Trueshot. It doesn't feel good to cap on Aimed Shot charges because you're channelling a Rapid Fire.
    - Rework Streamline to cause Rapid Fire to deliver more shots instead of lengthening the channel. Lengthening the channel doesn't really work well with the flow of the spec and compounds the above issue.

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    This really doesn't make sense. "Diluting" the feeling between two abilities? What does that even mean? It feels good with Rapid Fire just like it does with Aimed Shot. Having both in there doesn't worsen either of them.
    Double tap is not a part of Rapid fire though, nor the baseline spec (though it definitely should be). It is a talent, and that is the only way Rapid Fire has stayed even close tointeresting, by having loads of abilities that buff it from different areas, and given the fact that the 2 new Azerite abilities both buffed it does mean that Blizzard on some level recognizes that the abilit is not good enough on its own to warrant interest.

    And by diluting the effect of Trick Shot I mean that Rapid fire does the same thing as Aimed shot when buffed by trick shots. If it were not for talents the fact that it buffed both would be pointless, as you would just use the same one all the time.
    Now if Trick shots worked by augemnting the abilties individually so they did different things then it would be valid. Things like Trick shots making Aimed shot Piercing shot, or Steady shot into Volley.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I also personally don't like how Rapid fire restores focus, and with the azerite traits, can go off cooldown any time you use Aimed Shot. It essentially makes Stead yshot obsolete, and by proxy makes other talents and azerite traits obsolete.

    Maybe if Rapid fire had a significantly longer cooldown and became more of a reward instead of a sliightly weaker Aimed shot. That way you allow other abilities time to shine, and by association other talents and builds.

  12. #12
    rapid fire is literally arcane missile reskin with a cooldown. literally most boring ability they've come up with and mega shit when something dies mid-channel. chimera shot had the satisfaction of being instant and doing big ass damage which MM severely lacks nowadays.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Don't like how rapid fire almost invalidates steady shot. I really don't think MM needs two focus generators when one is already spammable.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Double tap is not a part of Rapid fire though, nor the baseline spec (though it definitely should be). It is a talent, and that is the only way Rapid Fire has stayed even close tointeresting, by having loads of abilities that buff it from different areas, and given the fact that the 2 new Azerite abilities both buffed it does mean that Blizzard on some level recognizes that the abilit is not good enough on its own to warrant interest.
    This is utterly bizarre logic. Interactions with talents matters a lot. This is like saying Aimed Shot is underwhelming without Careful Aim and so this somehow invalidates the basic idea of the ability.

    There are plenty of spells in the game that are propped up by azerite traits; many of them moreso than Rapid Fire. BM's Aspect of the Wild is utterly terrible without Primal Instincts and that's one of their major cooldowns. This is just an argument to make those trait effects baseline, not to remove the ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    And by diluting the effect of Trick Shot I mean that Rapid fire does the same thing as Aimed shot when buffed by trick shots. If it were not for talents the fact that it buffed both would be pointless, as you would just use the same one all the time.
    Well, no, you alternate between them because both of them have cooldowns and that makes perfect sense. Rapid Fire is actually the stronger one in AoE and it adds more variety to the AoE side of things by having it buff both abilities. There is literally nothing wrong with this and you are spin-doctoring hard to make it seem like a bad thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Now if Trick shots worked by augemnting the abilties individually so they did different things then it would be valid. Things like Trick shots making Aimed shot Piercing shot, or Steady shot into Volley.
    How it works currently is fine, barring the arbitrary 3-target floor and 5-target cap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I also personally don't like how Rapid fire restores focus, and with the azerite traits, can go off cooldown any time you use Aimed Shot. It essentially makes Stead yshot obsolete, and by proxy makes other talents and azerite traits obsolete.
    It makes the rotation more dynamic and that' a good thing. Casting Steady Shot all the time would actually be boring. Steady Shot isn't obsolete, anyway. Rapid Fire has a cooldown so we can't depend on it for all our focus gain, or even a majority of our focus gain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Maybe if Rapid fire had a significantly longer cooldown and became more of a reward instead of a sliightly weaker Aimed shot. That way you allow other abilities time to shine, and by association other talents and builds.
    How it is currently is fine. It's stronger than Aimed Shot, it has a 20-second cooldown, and makes the rotation flow a lot better.

    If you want a strong instant cast in the baseline spec I'm all for it. But you don't need to remove Rapid Fire to get this.

    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    rapid fire is literally arcane missile reskin with a cooldown. literally most boring ability they've come up with and mega shit when something dies mid-channel. chimera shot had the satisfaction of being instant and doing big ass damage which MM severely lacks nowadays.
    Slapping "boring" on any ability you don't like doesn't mean much. I can just as well describe Aimed Shot as a boring, reskinned Pyroblast. An ability themed around shooting a lot of arrows in quick succession is actually pretty cool and buffing it to high heaven in PvP is one of the saving graces of the spec right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Don't like how rapid fire almost invalidates steady shot. I really don't think MM needs two focus generators when one is already spammable.
    Well, it doesn't invalidate Steady Shot precisely because it's not spammable like Steady Shot. Having an extra focus regenerator improves the flow of the spec a lot.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Slapping "boring" on any ability you don't like doesn't mean much. I can just as well describe Aimed Shot as a boring, reskinned Pyroblast. An ability themed around shooting a lot of arrows in quick succession is actually pretty cool and buffing it to high heaven in PvP is one of the saving graces of the spec right now.
    sorry but they took barrage and made it hit 1 target and ricochet. not exactly the most groundbreaking shit they've designed. i just looked on wowhead and they have the same cd/channel too.

  16. #16
    I suppose those are some fair points. I guess I just dislike Rapid Fire because it A. looks terrible and B. is emblematic of the problems with MM currently, that being a severe lack of cohesion between abilities baseline, the only one we have being Arcane shot buffs from Aimed shot, and trick shots in AoE.
    And while I can appreciate the class not being a vast network of interconnected abilities where each one leads to a different buff, I do feel confident in stating that we could at least do with more than the two we have, where only one of them is seen in most boss fights.
    Last edited by Sondrelk; 2020-05-22 at 08:30 PM.

  17. #17
    I would make rapid fire less "rapid" so that the animation can keep up a bit.

    i.e 5 hits over 3 seconds by default while increasing the damage and focus of each shot.

    That's pretty much all I would do from a design perspective. No need to remove that spell. It's just over the top and in my opinion ridiculous to look at, so much that it doesn't feel fun to me and I can't imagine any hunter that actually likes barrage/rapidfire the way they are from a style/animation perspective.

    even 3 hits over 3 seconds (pre haste stat) would still count as "rapid fire" because it's way faster than how we can shoot normally.

    In general, I like the idea of having less accurate shots that are being shot faster, and rapid fire actually fits in that regard.
    If Blizz wants to be really fancy, they could also make the skill oGCD and add 3 charges that you can weave in between aimed/steady/other GCD stuff.

    Like... your character holds 3 arrows/bullets between his fingers (doesn't have to be animated that way, just a way to visualize it) and these 3 shots (1 charge = 1 shot) can be "reloaded" faster (thus oGCD, with a 1s cooldown or something). That would allow steadyshot and aimed shot to have long casttimes without the feeling of it being a slow spec.

    I really think that MM should have some interaction with ammunition in general...
    in form of procs or something...
    not necessarily RNG based.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2020-05-24 at 08:16 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Would MM be better if Rapid Fire was replaced completely with Chimaera shot?
    I have been wondering whether one of the main problems with MM in BfA is Rapid Fire. As has been discussed before, it is not a fun or interesting ability to use except as a vehicle for Trick Shots. Not ot mention it might as well have been on life support the entirety of BfA, being the only DPS ability to get Azerite Traits after launch.

    Would anyone miss Rapid Fire if it was gone? Obviously if we just remove it and nothing else the already anemic rotation is drained a bit further, but it would also free up the GCD to more inventive builds.
    Which lead me to Chimaera shot. It has not been a part of the rotation since WoD, and while I don't like it doing nature/frist damage I do like the ability conceptually.
    If we replaced Rapid Fire with Chimaera shot does anyone else think the spec would be better? And by replace I essentially mean the treatment Barbed shot got for Dire beast, where we just replace it in the talent tree, allowing players who truly enjoyed it to replace Chimaera shot with it again.
    I'm all for Rapid Fire being replaced with Chimaera shot, but I think that argument that it's somehow more interesting is weird.

    You also mention something about it freeing up the GCD to more inventive builds... do you care to elaborate on that? Are you just talking about Chimaera shot? Because even though it's a cool ability, it is not very inventive.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I'm all for Rapid Fire being replaced with Chimaera shot, but I think that argument that it's somehow more interesting is weird.

    You also mention something about it freeing up the GCD to more inventive builds... do you care to elaborate on that? Are you just talking about Chimaera shot? Because even though it's a cool ability, it is not very inventive.
    Chimaera shot does not have a cast or channel time, if we assume a similar cooldown and possibly even recharge mechanics as Rapid Fire it would still take up less time in your roation.
    Currently one of hte biggest problems with MM talents is that our rotation is so stuffed to the brim with Aimed shot and Rapid fire that we do not really have space for Serpent sting, explosive shot, or god forbid, piercing shot.
    Removing the channel, or the ability itself would massively free up MM to have space in their roation to fill with active talents, instead of choosing the same passive ones all the times.
    Consider for a moment Trueshot Aura. We currently struggle to use both Rapid fire and Aimed shot without letting the abilities cap or stay unused for long.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Slapping "boring" on any ability you don't like doesn't mean much.
    People sadly do this very often. Everytime there is something they find challenging or annoying they just label it "boring". It's like people saying that Bolstering is boring. Don't get me wrong, I HATE bolstering. It's the most annoying and unpleasant affix in my opinion, but that doesn't mean that it's boring. It just mean that I don't like it.

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