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  1. #261
    So, at what point is internet not going to be a requirement? This is depressing.

    I'm saying that in the context of the word 'viable' and 'bots'. I'm all for more options, and with that also comes solo-gameplay. But this just makes me sad.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    They don't tell that to me, they tell that to the tank. I'm usually the healer. Still it annoys me because i don't like rushing through a dungeon and always acting as if there is some invisible time limit.
    Everyone just runs shortcuts and is evading everything and i wonder why they even play the dungeon it they hate it so much that they skip 60% of it. I see the necessity in Mythic+ but not in heroics. I had more fun in dungeons the way they were played before the introduction if M+ (tbh i liked the classic/TBC dungeon gameplay the most with cc'ing and planned pulls and stuff).
    Ok, sorry I thought you were implying that you were a tank.
    I have a question to you, why do people run dungeons? I think we can agree, that some stuff is (especially for the first time) is done for the exploration, excitement about what is to come, but that fades rather quickly. Mostly dungeons are done for the rewards. In the earlier times of WoW, dungeon trash gave rep. which means that people actually "needed" the trash, and yet how much trash was done, which was not necessary? People try to get done with the content as fast possible, or how do explain why people dont do every single trash mob in a dungeon?

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by iosdeveloper View Post
    they'll definately consider solo-mode for all dungeons after finding out Torghast to be a killer feature (which is sad imo)
    Make raids/group content drop better stuff and people will flock to them. I am not fond how M+ drops even better than raid in many occasions. So either they go all the way and normalize drops through all content or make it a clear tier system you climb. Having it sitting halfway isn't really good.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by tmamass View Post
    wall of text
    How does it ruin your game or your fun if they were to introduce it? It dosen’t take away the ability to group up, Just gives the option to do it solo if you prefer that.

    Orgimmar and stormwind visions can be played both group and solo.... and the game has not died yet because of it.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by tmamass View Post
    because its a mmo and not diablo. go play diablo and be happy but stop trying to ruin a mmo
    Fully agree with this. However they're just going to take the route that makes them more revenue and if it's full solo support, they're going to do it. They made raids basically """"""""""""useless""""""""""""" (add as many quotes you want) with the M+ scaled drop system. So they can fully do it. It all depends on playerbase reaction - which will obviously be rage, but after that if people who stay and don't complain is enough, they did what matters the most (for them).

    As a side note, WoW took a lot from Diablo, from the old talent trees to the World Quests and M+ themselves (adventure mode / grater rifts in D3, with a lot more structure). And on the opposite side, D4 is taking a lot from WoW - persistent, fully explorable world, you can see players in it. Dungeons are in fixed spots with fixed themes/enemies; you can increase the dungeon levels/difficulty with keys. Open world events like bosses. Literally, WoW world scaled down to solo/small group without raids. Which is everything i wanted from the next gen Diablo game.

    I don't think WoW will change much at this point. M+ have been a game changing feature and it's both easy to support and welcomed by most of the playerbase. Solo play is not considered aside it being a part of the experience, with Visions and Torghast.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    How does it ruin your game or your fun if they were to introduce it? It dosen’t take away the ability to group up, Just gives the option to do it solo if you prefer that.

    Orgimmar and stormwind visions can be played both group and solo.... and the game has not died yet because of it.
    Look man, do you understand the history of Blizzard on social at all?

    Blizzard was dead set to release Diablo 3 and Starcraft with ZERO social features. There was not going to be ANY communication. Not even chat channels. You were not going to be allowed to talk to another player ever. EVER! There were multiple 25 page threads on their forums demanding chat. Threads automatically closed themselves when they hit page 25 so people would open a new one to keep yelling at Blizz. FINALLY, they reluctantly rolled out some really primitive and crappy chat channels with barely any features and that's all we ever got.

    THAT'S why people get irate when Blizz does stuff like add shitty solo content like Visions or Torghast into WoW. We don't trust them on solo content at all. We know they want to go full solo. They tried it before. GET TORGHAST OUT OF SL or I am NOT playing it.

    Damn.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Happy to run visions?

    You are forced to run them to get cloak upgrades. There's lots of people in Visions on alts for that reason.
    You’re attacking the wrong part of his post here, he means “Happy to do them alone rather than in a group”, i think we can all agree that nobody is going “Alright! I get to run another vision for the umpteenth time, yay!” by now.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    Ok, sorry I thought you were implying that you were a tank.
    I have a question to you, why do people run dungeons? I think we can agree, that some stuff is (especially for the first time) is done for the exploration, excitement about what is to come, but that fades rather quickly. Mostly dungeons are done for the rewards. In the earlier times of WoW, dungeon trash gave rep. which means that people actually "needed" the trash, and yet how much trash was done, which was not necessary? People try to get done with the content as fast possible, or how do explain why people dont do every single trash mob in a dungeon?
    Sure i understand that, but i think that the act of actually playing the dungeon should still be a fun activity. Maybe rushing is fun for some people, don't know. But for me it isn't. And i you are at the point that it is so annoying that you hate it and thus optimize your run to make it as fast and painless as possible it might be time to think about your subscription.

    I'd rather play a solo dungeon with a bot group than the gogogo rush groups i always seem to get since the introduction of M+.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Sure i understand that, but i think that the act of actually playing the dungeon should still be a fun activity. Maybe rushing is fun for some people, don't know. But for me it isn't. And i you are at the point that it is so annoying that you hate it and thus optimize your run to make it as fast and painless as possible it might be time to think about your subscription.

    I'd rather play a solo dungeon with a bot group than the gogogo rush groups i always seem to get since the introduction of M+.
    I disagree with most of that. It depends what rushing means. I think it just normal to go at a decent pace, having the healer reg while i pull the next pack, pull as many packs as the group can handle. Would that be rushing to you?

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    I disagree with most of that. It depends what rushing means. I think it just normal to go at a decent pace, having the healer reg while i pull the next pack, pull as many packs as the group can handle. Would that be rushing to you?
    Well lets see, from my experiences... non stop moving, continue moving even when fighting trash mobs, starting bossfights before everyone is in the room, creative use of dungeon geometry to skip as much as possible, combined with constant salt when someone pulls trashmobs while doing that.
    And don't forget, i'm talking about heroics, not Mythics.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Well lets see, from my experiences... non stop moving, continue moving even when fighting trash mobs, starting bossfights before everyone is in the room, creative use of dungeon geometry to skip as much as possible, combined with constant salt when someone pulls trashmobs while doing that.
    And don't forget, i'm talking about heroics, not Mythics.
    Who complains about heroics? I could solo any mythic dungeon by the time I quit. You could probably pull the entire heroic dungeon and kill it if you're a good player who is ahead of the curve...

    I've never once encountered a player complaining in that scenario. More people complaining that players like me take things into their own hand and show just how unneeded the rest of the group is.

    "stop pulling so much!"
    "slow down!"
    etc.

    As I continue to pull and murder everything without two seconds thought and no danger to a group wipe.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Yes and I'd like them to expand on how much stuff that is.
    then you are in the wrong game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    wall of text
    why do you wanna ruin a game just so its a solo game instead of just playing a solo game?

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by tmamass View Post
    then you are in the wrong game.

    - - - Updated - - -


    why do you wanna ruin a game just so its a solo game instead of just playing a solo game?
    Because i want to play WoW? and i don't want to rely on other people for my own progression?

    and why do you all say "Why not play a single player game?".. Don't you get that single player games have an end? so they get stale and boring very fast, and these online games you can play for years without getting bored or running out of things to do.

  14. #274
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmamass View Post
    then you are in the wrong game.
    I'm not at all. Because as I said I enjoy doing group stuff with friends and cool People I meet, but would like to avoid Mouthbreathers and others like yourself when leveling.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    Because i want to play WoW? and i don't want to rely on other people for my own progression?
    hate to break it to you, but wow has always had a necessity of relying on others for the best means of progression. I don't think that should change. If you do, cool. We disagree, and should leave it at that. I hope they cater to me instead of you and vice versa (I'm sure).

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    I'm not at all. Because as I said I enjoy doing group stuff with friends and cool People I meet, but would like to avoid Mouthbreathers and others like yourself when leveling.
    Why is it hard to just accept that you won't have access to certain things if you don't want to indulge the mouth-breathers or try to rope in your friends? Making the game even more solo friendly just cheapens the experience IMO. Should have to be social for certain things. It's why I'm happy they're getting rid of McForging and such. Let overland (read: solo) activities cap out at a certain point of usefulness and then you gotta step into the grouping situation.

    Grouping is infinitely more difficult than solo stuff. I probably would have never gotten mage tower if I had to rely on other people to participate and carry their weight. Things are easier when you're solo and you're skilled.

  16. #276
    It's not a direct impact, but ask yourself this: would anyone do mythic raiding in a group if you could clear it solo somehow (either just outright solo thanks to heal orbs like islands or by getting AI npcs)? No. Anything making solo easier and more lucrative will ultimately reduce the pool of people willing to group. That would erode the character of the game. The game is evolving away from what made it cool for the original group of players. If it's going to do that, better to have it die IMO instead of changing to something I hate (too late I guess?).

    Like mitsubishi taking the "eclipse" and morphing it into a crossover. GTFO. Just kill it off and make a new game that doesn't bastardize your original.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by 2525r423ftr345 View Post
    Introduce bots with which we can run dungeons like in FF14 already Blizzard!
    Why? Play a single player game then. Sorry but thats one of the few things ff14 did thats dumb as hell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    I dont understand what people arguing against optionable AI NPC's are on about here at all, it doesnt take anything away from anyone.
    If I want to choose to run my nm/hc dungeons or lfr with NPCs you guys wont even notice it, where is the harm? Exactly, nowhere.
    Because the more you make it a single player game the less people will want to do anything but play it as a single player game. It is a multi player game. Running instances with npc's defeats the purpose of playing a mmo. They have single player games for that go play one of them if thats what you want
    I can't wait to watch your ego bleed
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  18. #278
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Why is it hard to just accept that you won't have access to certain things if you don't want to indulge the mouth-breathers or try to rope in your friends? Making the game even more solo friendly just cheapens the experience IMO..
    Why is it so hard to accept that it doesn't fucking matter what you think about how I want to play an MMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by upirlikhyi View Post
    Because the more you make it a single player game the less people will want to do anything but play it as a single player game. It is a multi player game. Running instances with npc's defeats the purpose of playing a mmo. They have single player games for that go play one of them if thats what you want
    They do it in FFXIV fine and it is a nearly universally liked implementation.

  19. #279
    If Blizz adds a system like this and does it right, as in offers full support across all difficulties and appropriately tuned such that is not just free loot but a real challenge. Then it will revive the game and return it to it's former glory imo. The amount of former players that I know who would love a feature like this is huge.

    There are so many negatives to grouping in the game that many players just flat out quit because outside of raids and m+ the pve side of this game is extremely boring, dull, and trivial. Visions and Torghast are a step in the right direction, but more needs to be done.

    Here are some of the negatives that AI/Bots would fix:

    1. Having to play the game on a schedule - i dont even know why i have to explain to you people why this bad, but what kind of game effectively locks the hardest difficulty (mythic raids) behind a schedule because good luck clearing without a guild. There are so many other games available today that respect the players time, why bother playing wow? It's a video game, but you can't play hard mode unless you commit!! What an archaic system. The game is not even that hard, it's just full of fake social and logistical difficulty to make it seem hard.

    2. Content Gatekeeping - This the type of stuff players complain about all the time. Raider IO, not having achievements, ilvl, etc. The age old problem of how do I get invited to groups to gain experience when I got no experience. Honorable mention for returning hardcore players with no network who are stuck carrying bads through PUGs and at the same time get declined to easy shit on the regular.

    3. Need Tank/healer - Invite the bot

    4. Guild Hoppers - Many guild hoppers are just players trying to climb up to the top. There is no shortcut to the top without connections. You need mythic kills and good logs. The only way to get those, starting from scratch, is by joining a low tier guild, get some kills and logs. Then guild hop to a more progressed guild and repeat. Continuing doing this until you reach your skill level. Speaking from experience I hate doing this because it's a shitty thing to do, but the system is designed like this and there is no alternative.
    Last edited by Bozey17; 2020-05-31 at 07:40 AM.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Do you have any evidence of this claim other than your gut-feeling? Cause RDF and other "non social" tools are already in the game.

    Like I said previously in this thread, some people have problems for every solution.
    Yes the people who I know that play ff14 have said since the addition of the npcs grouping has gone to crap

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Why is it so hard to accept that it doesn't fucking matter what you think about how I want to play an MMO.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They do it in FFXIV fine and it is a nearly universally liked implementation.
    No its not.
    I can't wait to watch your ego bleed
    Your pain will set me free

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