The WHO is responsible for the pandemic's severity

[Underverse]

As the title says, the WHO is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths globally and trillions of dollars of economic damage. And this really boils down to one thing: face masks.

Now, I know what you're thinking. "Just another Trump supporter looking to deflect blame." No, I despise that orangutan and place a large chunk of blame directly on his blubbery shoulders, from his insufferable early ignorance that imbued the nation with a false sense of security to his decision to disband the pandemic response team to his idiotic chloroquine saga that continues to this day; his list of failures goes on and on and he is certainly to blame in large part, as is the CDC to a lesser degree for bungling their primers in the first rollout of the testing kits. But the larger part of the blame is with the WHO, and this is why:

- If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.
- Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
- Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
- If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/dise...w-to-use-masks

These are the policies taken directly from their website today as you can see in the link. They continue to sow misinformation even as nations begin to turn away from their guidelines as they realize that they're at best dangerously misinformed and at worst a tool of subversion used by patron states of the WHO to dramatically enhance the damage that the pandemic causes to their rival nations. For example:

A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman, Geng Shuang, told a Thursday news briefing that the country would be injecting an extra $30 million into the agency "in support of global efforts to fight COVID-19 and the construction of public health systems in developing countries."

China also lapped praise on WHO and its leadership, saying the agency "had actively fulfilled its duties with objective, science-based and fair position."

Last month, China already pledged $20 million to the organization, a move it said was meant to "help small and medium-sized countries with weak public health systems in particular to bolster their epidemic preparedness."

https://www.businessinsider.com/chin...er-move-2020-4

We'll put that in the 'maybe a conspiracy theory' bucket for now. Let's return to the WHO. Has it been actively fulfilling its duties with objective and science based positions? Well, other than denying the existence of Taiwan in a recent interview with one of their directors, the WHO has:

1. Claimed that there was no evidence of human to human transmission in on January 14th. In fact, on January 2nd, almost two weeks earlier, 41 people were confirmed to be infected and only 2/3rds of them had come into contact with the market where is started:

On 2 January, 41 admitted hospital patients in Wuhan, China, were confirmed to have contracted (laboratory-confirmed) the 2019-nCoV (novel coronavirus); 27 (66%) patients had direct exposure to Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market.[12] All 41 patients were subsequently relocated from the hospital they had originally been diagnosed in to the Jinyintan Hospital in Wuhan, China.[12] WHO declared that its three concerned levels (China country office, Regional Office for the Western Pacific and headquarters) have been working together to respond to the outbreak.

2. Claimed that there was no evidence of airborne transmission of the coronavirus. Well, let's do a 30 second literature search, shall we? Oh look, from 2004:

Airborne spread of the virus appears to explain this large community outbreak of SARS, and future efforts at prevention and control must take into consideration the potential for airborne spread of this virus.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa032867

But that's not SARS-CoV2, that's SARS-CoV1! So let's see what we can find about our newest coronavirus friend:

Speech droplets generated by asymptomatic carriers of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) are increasingly considered to be a likely mode of disease transmission. [...] These observations confirm that there is a substantial probability that normal speaking causes airborne virus transmission in confined environments.

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2.../12/2006874117

Oh, it's the same. Who would have thought that two almost identical viruses could have the same transmission principles? Certainly not the WHO.

3. Recommend that people not use face masks. This is the big one and it's ongoing for some hideous reason. We know from SARS-CoV1 that face masks reduce spread. Even surgical masks can reduce communication of the virus by almost 70%, while the professional N95s are >90% effective. We knew this over 10 years ago, and I found this after yet another 30 second literature search:

Meta-analysis of six case-control studies suggested that physical measures are highly effective in preventing the spread of severe acute respiratory syndrome:[...] wearing masks (0.32, 0.25 to 0.40; NNT=6, 4.54 to 8.03), wearing N95 masks (0.09, 0.03 to 0.30; NNT=3, 2.37 to 4.06) [...]

https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/339/bmj.b3675.full.pdf

So how could the WHO possibly recommend not wearing masks? Is this really objective and science-based policy, as the CCP suggests? It certainly doesn't seem as though that is the case. In fact, the purpose of wearing masks seems to have entirely escaped the WHO. Masks are not for prevention of inbound infection, as the WHO suggests in policy point number one and in which cases non-N95 masks have been shown to be largely ineffective; it's for the prevention of outbound spread, and particularly for the prevention of spread from asymptomatic or slightly symptomatic individuals, which again is contrary to both policy points number one and number two. As for policy points three and four, they're wrong again. If you're infected, masks are effective for preventing spread to others regardless of whether or not you're washing your hands or whether or not it's disposed of properly. Sure, not following these recommendations will likely increase the spread of the virus somewhat through contaminated surfaces (although recent research suggests that this is not a major disease vector) but they will not ablate the efficacy of the mask entirely as suggested. Again, the WHO is demonstrating that they really don't have a single clue as to what's going on here and/or didn't bother to do a 30 second literature search to learn from SARS-CoV1.

The WHO has shown that they do not enact guidelines that are objective and science-based. Their recommendations, which have influenced the policies of many nations, have been actively destructive. Indeed, countries that have ignored the WHO have reached the most successful outcomes. These are generally East Asian nations that grappled with SARS-CoV1 and have a culture that accepts wearing masks in public.

Instituting and enforcing early policies of mandatory mask wearing, social distancing, and encouraging working from home would have saved tens of thousands of lives and possibly even prevented the need for a lockdown. The WHO is primarily responsible for this failure and their entire leadership should be replaced after this pandemic.

[Underverse]

I wish the US wouldn't break their toys when they are done with them.

This toy needs to be broken and rebuilt.

[PACOX]

OK, let's remove all personal responsibility for the pandemic like countries refusing to limit travel, self isolate, distribute PPE, track cases etc. Let's say leaders had to listen to King WHO instead run their counties?

What is everyone's excuse nearly six months later after the knows are known? After it's known how the virus spreads, that people should not densely pack in public, that a mask doesn't hurt? WHO...do we blame now?

[XDurionX]

No, you vastly overestimate the influence of the WHO. Have they handled the situation badly? Yes. Were they in a position to tell leaders what to do? No.

[Underverse]

OK, let's remove all personal responsibility for the pandemic like countries refusing to limit travel, self isolate, distribute PPE, track cases etc. Let's say leaders had to listen to King WHO instead run their counties?

What is everyone's excuse nearly six months later after the knows are known? After it's known how the virus spreads, that people should not densely pack in public, that a mask doesn't hurt? WHO...do we blame now?

Like I said at the beginning of my post, a lot of responsibility does indeed lie with individual countries. But more of it lies with the WHO as they are in a position of advisory authority during pandemics. Countries listen to the WHO. In this case, those that did suffered for it and paid for it in blood.

I believe we should have an organization such as the WHO to coordinate global responses to pathogens and advise nations on steps they should take. The WHO as it currently stands has shown that it is not worthy of bearing such a responsibility. They messed up, and they're still messing up.

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No, you vastly overestimate the influence of the WHO. Have they handled the situation badly? Yes. Were they in a position to tell leaders what to do? No.

Some countries followed WHO guidelines. Others did not. The latter were more successful.

WHO guidelines are not enforceable, but they do trickle down to the populace, especially one that lacks an alternative source of leadership. They provide a foundation for other health organizations to draw policy from. Even my workplace, early on, posted policies that were validated as being consistent with WHO guidelines. The CDC's guidelines were in line with the WHO's until somewhat recently and now stand in stark opposition.

[MCMLXXXII]

The WHO messed up in their advisory role. But that's all they are, advisory. Every country is responsible for their own stance on this pandemic.

[Acidbaron]

You greatly overestimate their influence and size, nothing more than a scapegoat thread.

[Underverse]

The WHO messed up in their advisory role. But that's all they are, advisory. Every country is responsible for their own stance on this pandemic.

A global advisory organization with an annual budget of $4-5b should maybe not be giving out advice that results in the deaths of tens of thousands of people, which could have easily been corrected with a brief literature search.

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You greatly overestimate their influence and size, nothing more than a scapegoat thread.

I'll wait for the counter-evidence showing that everyone ignored WHO recommendations in the early stages of the pandemic.

[Elegiac]

People complaining about the lack of teeth in an agency that was specifically designed to have no teeth in order not to ruffle the feathers of people who complain that the WHO having teeth would be bad?

Folks really have too much time on their hands in lockdown, yikes.

[s_bushido]

You should just call it the CCP-virus like everyone else trying to pass the buck does.

[Underverse]

You should just call it the CCP-virus like everyone else trying to pass the buck does.

Anything else? I mean this isn't an argument.

[Forogil]

Some countries followed WHO guidelines. Others did not. The latter were more successful.

Please explain what WHO guidelines S. Korea failed to follow - unless you count them as not successful.

WHO guidelines are not enforceable, but they do trickle down to the populace, especially one that lacks an alternative source of leadership. They provide a foundation for other health organizations to draw policy from. Even my workplace, early on, posted policies that were validated as being consistent with WHO guidelines. The CDC's guidelines were in line with the WHO's until somewhat recently and now stand in stark opposition.

Maybe CDC guidelines were in line with WHO guidelines, but the lack of testing in the US was certainly not in line with WHO guidelines.

[s_bushido]

Anything else? I mean this isn't an argument.

And this tinfoil horseshit is?

a tool of subversion used by patron states of the WHO to dramatically enhance the damage that the pandemic causes to their rival nations

Adorable.

[Forogil]

A global advisory organization with an annual budget of $4-5b should maybe not be giving out advice that results in the deaths of tens of thousands of people, which could have easily been corrected with a brief literature search.

Literature search for what?

If you mean face masks the literature search would give something like https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1422
“The evidence is not sufficiently strong to support widespread use of facemasks as a protective measure against covid-19. However, there is enough evidence to support the use of facemasks for short periods of time by particularly vulnerable individuals when in transient higher risk situations.”
“There is only very limited evidence of the benefits of wearing face masks by the general public, no evidence that wearing them in crowded places helps at all, and no evidence at all yet related to covid-19 . . . The authors also acknowledge that mass face mask wearing by the public would likely cause shortages among people who genuinely need protective equipment—healthcare workers on the front line in our hospitals.”

Maybe cloth face masks are in fact effective, maybe not; but it's very likely that medical face masks are more useful for health professionals than for the general population and it's certain that there was a shortage of medical masks. And whether cloth masks are effective is less certain.

[Acidbaron]

People complaining about the lack of teeth in an agency that was specifically designed to have no teeth in order not to ruffle the feathers of people who complain that the WHO having teeth would be bad?

Folks really have too much time on their hands in lockdown, yikes.

Pretty much, lack of understanding what an agency actually is only recently became aware of what they are and since they are turned into the scapegoat they are now some sort of big organization.

I mean the person who created this thread doesn't even get the recommendations right that they gave out, especially the one on the face masks. Also ignoring the fact that the recommendation for masks being scientifically backed is only about a week old. Or that even if that recommendation was in the first hour i would like to know where people would have even gotten masks from as strategic reserves don't exist any more in Europe and production of them was moved to China long ago.

Also the notion that it has to be destroyed and rebuild during a pandemic shows a very basic level of reasoning. The last thing we also want to do is pull out even more western influence, the US cocked this up enough already by leaving a void allowing China to step in and this was before the bamboon in the white house spoke of removing their funding. If we want to look at who's blame at what the US has become it is first and foremost on the hands of the current US administration who cares little for global organizations.

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While it's easy to scapegoat the WHO or even world leaders, the underlying cause of the severity essentially boils down to capitalism. We've designed a system that cannot survive even the barest of pressures while simultaneously valuing human life at nearly nothing. It's a combination that easily results in exactly what we're seeing. It doesn't really matter if the WHO did everything right or not; the pandemic would likely be just as bad because our society is not designed to function without nearly full employment, constant consumerism, and continual growth. People are dying and will continue to die solely so the economy can continue to grow and people can continue to consume.

No strategic reserves, because they cost too much and put a strain on a nation budget without returns.
No investments in healthcare, it's considered one of the biggest costs for a government so that means there's a lot of money we can regain by saving on it!
Entire industries build to be efficient, no reserves, no buffers, everything so "streamlined" that if there's one crack in the chain the whole thing starts breaking down.
Wage inequality and credit, most people are so used to living on credit and that means living on borrowed time, one thing in your life back fires and boom, no reserves no nothing and instantly living in debt.
Speaking of debt once people in the west end up in debt they struggle to get out, they can't get a house or apartment, blacklisted, can't apply for loans, blacklisted, struggles to get decent utilities provided to them because well they are nationally put on a blacklist because they struggle to pay their bills.

And it goes on and on.

[Forogil]

2. Claimed that there was no evidence of airborne transmission of the coronavirus. Well, let's do a 30 second literature search, shall we? Oh look, from 2004:


https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa032867

But that's not SARS-CoV2, that's SARS-CoV1! So let's see what we can find about our newest coronavirus friend:


https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2.../12/2006874117

Oh, it's the same. Who would have thought that two almost identical viruses could have the same transmission principles? Certainly not the WHO.

They thought it possible, but they hadn't found strong evidence at that point.

As for related viruses MERS isn't airborne to a large degree. Whether Sars-cov-2 would be like MERS or like Sars-Cov was unknown at January 21st when they issued their first situation report.

The more important part is: when did WHO change their guidelines based on confirmation that Sars-cov-2 spread from human to human?

April?
March?
February?
The right answer is January 23rd, in the third situation report.

"There is now more evidence that 2019-nCoV spreads from human- to- human and also across generations of cases. Moreover, family clusters involving persons with no reported travel to Wuhan have been reported from Guangdong Province. There have been very few reports of hospital outbreaks or infections of health care workers, which is a prominent feature of MERS and SARS.
WHO assesses the risk of this event to be very high in China, high at the regional level and high at the global level."

[MCMLXXXII]

A global advisory organization with an annual budget of $4-5b should maybe not be giving out advice that results in the deaths of tens of thousands of people, which could have easily been corrected with a brief literature search.

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I'll wait for the counter-evidence showing that everyone ignored WHO recommendations in the early stages of the pandemic.

So what's the CDC budget?

[Ashleyxoxo]

You mean like the band?

[Strawberry]

The WHO messed up in their advisory role. But that's all they are, advisory. Every country is responsible for their own stance on this pandemic.

This is correct.
Also, they weren't vocal enough early on because China basically owns them.

WHO is useless. And covid-19 is a virus of natural origin but modified in a lab. People can say this is conspiracy, but you cannot prove me wrong.
I refuse to believe 1.5bil country who silenced this for weeks managed to only get 85.000 infected. There was no quarantine in China for WEEKS. And only 85.000 infected? With such a packed together society? Uh huh, they can bullshit someone else. It would've worked if it didn't leak to the outside world and showed how much damage it can do in only a few weeks.

If people believe this cannot happen, perhaps you should Google how to bioprint Ebola?
It's perfectly possible although not available to the public.

[Forogil]

So what's the CDC budget?

https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents...ating-plan.pdf

For CDC L/HHS in total it seems to be: almost $8b whereas the number for emerging diseases (like this one) is $0.2b.
For comparison budgets for large hospitals are also in the $b range.

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You mean like the band?

No, Doctor Who, of course!