Need advice on AQ40 and Naxx to help my guildies

[Naraga]

The only thing that comes to mind preparation wise would be nature res gear for AQ.

If you're in a guild with decent dps and healers you probably won't need nature resist gear.

[garicasha]

What if you get two warrior calls within 2 minutes? That's four calls, pretty good odds.

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Nefarian's base melee damage is 4,924. You don't need to be too scared of Fankriss his base melee damage is 3,892. Ouro's melee damage is 9,192 before mitigation and he gets a 200% attack speed buff. Emperor Vek'nilash's base melee damage is 5,835 and he'll hit for 350% weapon damage and reduce defence skill by 100 with unbalancing strike so that's probably the scariest tank damage in the instance.

Naxxramas is when things start to hit pretty hard. For example Sapphiron's base melee damage is 12,258, enough to gib a tank with a crit or crush. Maexxna's base damage is 9,727 and she'll frenzy for 75% more damage and 100% attack speed.

Thank you so much Nitros these are the kinds of facts I was looking for.




So does this mean that one missed shield block on Sapphiron = wipe? Heh and I'd argue that Ouro more than meets the standard of "when things start to hit pretty hard."

According to your post, his damage IS OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!

[ovine]

If you're in a guild with decent dps and healers you probably won't need nature resist gear.

This. She has less HP than Ragnaros and folk will be in T2.0 + by that time. Gone are the days you need to tiptoe in with 200 NR on melee, you can just breeze in now with a pot or 2 and go ham on the pull.

[Laughingjack]

To be honest the vast majority of players are overthinking and over preparing this. If you get world buffs alone before raid your already likely to mop the floor with the raid. Just have your melee bring a frost damage weapon or enchant one.

[Cempa]

Sorry , but if you cant clear AQ in classic. Mmo might just not be for you

huhu/cthun will not be walks in the park .. NR from 5 man may not be enough and world boss farm is only done by a handful of guilds on each server.

They may need to wait for P6 when NR crafted gear from CC rep is viable BUT guilds might fall apart before then.

[garicasha]

To be honest the vast majority of players are overthinking and over preparing this. If you get world buffs alone before raid your already likely to mop the floor with the raid. Just have your melee bring a frost damage weapon or enchant one.

For comparison, is your guild also wiping in BWL 3-4 times a night?

[Laughingjack]

For comparison, is your guild also wiping in BWL 3-4 times a night?

No, did a total of 12 times i think this tier? Most where from tanks learning how to properly pull and position the dragon bosses and one was from the MT forgetting to equip his cloak for nef

[lollerlaban]

huhu/cthun will not be walks in the park .. NR from 5 man may not be enough and world boss farm is only done by a handful of guilds on each server.

They may need to wait for P6 when NR crafted gear from CC rep is viable BUT guilds might fall apart before then.

You're right. They'll be stomped over because they're easy af

[deenman]

Someone's mad that Classic actually has players and isn't a ghost town

OT: Consumables aren't mandatory, I'd say the most you can do is read up on strategies and become familiar with them and you should be fine. C'Thun is probably the only *challenging* boss that requires some thought, but as long as you're geared he should go down if everyone plays properly. If you/the raid leader explain everything clearly and in detail, it should be relatively straight forward.

If you do find yourself struggling, then you can get overpowered world buffs with consumables to aid you further.

yeah,im sure its a ghost town considering twitch is 90% retail,atleast tthe first ones,even asmon is playing more retail these days,granted i would have expected classic to be way more popular now considering there was a new raid and 3 more to come wwile bfa is done,weird

asmon just poped on a eu server to do some transmog,you cant even see the ground https://i.imgur.com/gmQ1feA.jpg and thats just outside,in sw...a city where its pointless to even be in bfa,where theres masive sharding,granted its EU,for some reason its been way more active than usa recently

[Nitros14]

This. She has less HP than Ragnaros and folk will be in T2.0 + by that time. Gone are the days you need to tiptoe in with 200 NR on melee, you can just breeze in now with a pot or 2 and go ham on the pull.

To be honest the vast majority of players are overthinking and over preparing this. If you get world buffs alone before raid your already likely to mop the floor with the raid. Just have your melee bring a frost damage weapon or enchant one.

I mean, maybe? Thinking about the math of it it seems questionable.

A 75th percentile speed kill on Ebonroc is 1m48s. Ebonroc has the same HP as Huhuran. She's probably going to be up at least 20-30 seconds below 30%, possibly more since she consistently sleeps all the melee and dispelling the sleep does 4k nature damage.

Below 30% Huhuran does 2,000 to 3,000 nature damage every 3 seconds to the melee. I don't really see how it's healable unless you're going in with full world buffs, your NR pot will last one volley. Some of your healers are going to be silenced as well and prayer of healing is like 1,000/1,200 per cast?

With world buffs and a bunch of warriors yeah sure she'll just die.

On a lot of pvp servers when Ahn'qiraj opens the chances of getting in with full world buffs seems remote. It's going to be a warzone out there.

I would be surprised if the bottom 80% of guilds could get away without NR.


I'm also not sure how you'd get away with no shadow resist on Twin Emperors. 4,000 shadow damage every 1 second seems a bit much to heal through on a warlock for the whole fight without death.

[clevin]

Going back to the OP... I don't understand where you're at. If you can barely field 20 for a ZG that's one thing. If you can field the raid but you can't clear it, that's different. Which is it?

My guild is good but not top end pro... we have 2 BWL groups that each clear in 1 night (the first is better and cleared BWL last night in 1:15). 2-3 MC groups and as many ZG groups as we want. Most of the groups clear stuff in ~2 hours but while we're being efficient, we're not trying for speed runs, etc. Honestly, neither ZG nor MC are at all hard. BWL has a couple of things that can trip you up (DPS pulling aggro on Vael with an unlucky BA on a tank, Fireman positioning getting wonky, etc). But those are almost all just execution things. Once the tanks get down, say, Fireman positioning, you'll 1 shot him every week.

So... is attendance the issue, or is it performance?

[garicasha]

I'm in a very unusual spot; I'm a guild leader that raids on alts with other guilds. It's been helpful because I didn't know BWL details and now I do. So I'm trying to gauge what's gonna happen in AQ40 to figure out my next move. I'm still having trouble reconciling the fact that DPS is so much higher than it used to be with the consumable farming requirements...my understanding is at a Naxx level everything is a huge DPS race just because healer mana is so limited.

The only way my own guild will be able to do anything in Naxx is if:
--I devote every waking hour to recruitment
or
--A guild breaks up and I can save a bunch of good players from the wreckage

I'm trying to avoid a situation where I sink hundreds of hours in to bailing water from a sinking ship. But because I'm getting so late of a start I might just join a Naxx-capable guild for the rest of classic while making modest investments in my own guild (but not killing myself running ZG every three days).

But if I can get my own guild to clear AQ40 before BC drops, I would just do that.

[clevin]

I still don't get it. You say you have like 100 active members. Do they all suck? Are you raiding now? Or by 'a dozen hitting 60" do you mean most of the 100 aren't 60?

Quit worrying. Build a good group. Get most of the 200 active and semi-active people to 60 and you'll be fine. Yeah, you're a little behind the curve, but so what? DO NOT fall into the retail mindset that once a new raid drops, the old stuff is meaningless. As I said, we have 2-3 MCs going even though we don't need most of the gear. We run several ZGs a week.

As people get to 60, get them running 5 mans for pre-BiS. Once they have decent t gear, run MC. There are likely PUG MCs or you can partner up. Once you get 25 or so and have a few healers etc, go run ZG. ZG resets every 3 days you can run it 2x a week and gear that way. Got 35+? Run MC and PUG the extra few spots. NOTE - pugging people into runs is a great recruiting tool.

AS you reliably clear ZG and kill rags, go BWL.

You have probably 2 months until AQ even hits.

Make the guild a fun place so that people run stuff together and you'll get there.

[Nitros14]

my understanding is at a Naxx level everything is a huge DPS race just because healer mana is so limited.

There's only a few real dps races in Naxxramas.

Patchwerk is infamous but really more of a healing check and tank gear check. The dps check is only like 300 dps per player, not hard at all to reach. It's actually a similar dps check to other bosses like Grand Widow Faerlina, Maexxna, Noth and Gluth.

Loatheb is a significant dps block, you'll need ~700 dps per player over 5 minutes. You do gain a damage buff but you also lose 24 seconds to bandaging and more to movement.

Kel'Thuzad is a similarly large dps check to Loatheb. It's not a specific number but the soft enrage ramps up fast. Now that people know how Four Horsemen works and can watch guides Kel'Thuzad is probably the hardest boss in the instance.

Gothik the Harvester broke up a lot of guilds in actual vanilla. You can ease the dps requirements by bringing a lot of CC and most guilds did this fight with six priests with a spell hit set and mages.

You'll want 8 tanks with taunts for Four Horsemen, ferals can technically do it but aren't optimal. Four of the tanks can wear fire resistance to ease healing requirements on Highlord Mograine. You can make the fight a lot more reliable by having your tanks pick up the spell hit trinket from Gahz'ranka in Zul'gurub and the four set tier 3 warrior bonus for +5% spell hit. Taunt resists make the encounter miserable.

Sapphiron does need frost resistance but also needs a lot of throughput. You don't really want to wear random greens ideally you'd craft the epic frost resist and use the epic quest frost resist the instance gives.

10/15 Naxxramas should be fairly doable for any raiding guild. The last five present various problems for less hardcore guilds.

[garicasha]

Yah I don't think Loatheb is in the cards unless I really, really get serious about recruitment NOW.

The other issue is that if I did work really hard, my guild would probably start pumping on all 40 cylinders...just in time to ax 15 of them for BC's 25-man raids.

My Saturday ZG run had 8 guildies sign up, and 3 show up. I pugged the 16 others and cleared it in 2 hours, but as far as raiding is concerned the guild is just stepping in to it. clevin is right, the active players aren't 60s, they're actively working towards it.

My server also has a dozen guilds that are clearing BWL in 3, 3 1/2 hours...and I'm trying to figure out what happens to those guilds in the future, and if my only options to clear Naxx is to join a guild stomping BWL in an hour.