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  1. #41
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    I don't think you really understand the game your playing or perhaps you just don't really understand people. No one looks at the first set of essences they scrounge together and say " This is good".

    They don't consider the grind done till its full bis so that is easily a month for most classes. More if you add the cape and corruption. Call it the one percent if you must but its how the majority operates.

    Times changed im afraid. We are never going back to those early days in vanilla even if you play classic they are dead.
    Ok and where do you get this info? "They don't consider the grind done till its full bis so that is easily a month for most classes"

    You must have a wide range of players you talk with to be able to say that most players act like this.
    Please, tell me where you get this amazing info. You say it's the majority. Please show me your proof. Your evidence.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Especially since the Rajani don't give an essence my dude... Only the uldum rep does...
    Maybe do some research? Your entire post could only be more wrong by saying there is a battle pet azerite essence.
    https://www.wowhead.com/azerite-esse...reservation-24
    https://www.wowhead.com/azerite-esse...everlasting-33

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Lucid dreams takes 10 days doing bare minimum. Not a month.
    You need 4800 rep to get lucid dreams. 3 quests a day at 300 rep/quest = 16 days. That sounds like the bare minimum to me.

    You're right that any one doesn't take a lot, but doing all of them is quite a lot. Especially the first couple days because your gear is so absurdly low - when I hit level 120 recently I was 260 item level. Good time to start conflict and strife farm?
    Last edited by Scrod; 2020-05-24 at 07:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    I don't really hate bfa, outside of the extreme rng and crap systems and garbage gameplay

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Ok and where do you get this info? "They don't consider the grind done till its full bis so that is easily a month for most classes"

    You must have a wide range of players you talk with to be able to say that most players act like this.
    Please, tell me where you get this amazing info. You say it's the majority. Please show me your proof. Your evidence.
    I want you to find me the player who honestly says " I don't want to do as well as I could" instead. Everyone works to improve at nearly every level beyond those who quit at level cap.

    What your asking for is absurd in a rpg.

  4. #44
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    https://www.wowhead.com/azerite-esse...reservation-24
    https://www.wowhead.com/azerite-esse...everlasting-33

    - - - Updated - - -



    You need 4800 rep to get lucid dreams. 3 quests a day at 300 rep/quest = 16 days.

    You're right that any one doesn't take a lot, but doing all of them is quite a lot. Especially the first couple days because your gear is so absurdly low - when I hit level 120 recently I was 260 item level.
    1. Wow I guess there is essences on Rajani

    2. Sorry yes you are correct. 4800 for rank 3. 3000 is rank 2.
    However you forget you can massively speed it up with all the other sources for exp.

  5. #45
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    It's quite simple. Gating is fine (not fun, but bearable/acceptable/understandable) for firstly obtaining any given item. It's not fine after that. If it took 3 hours of effective gameplay (across multiple weeks) to get rank 3 of an essence it's fine having to still spend 3 hours, but it should be farmable in one sitting. Gating should be a tool to prevent power surge at the start of a patch, and only that. The cloak is gating done properly, essences are how not to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    1. Wow I guess there is essences on Rajani

    2. No, your wrong. It's 3000 go look it up yourself. It was 4800 at the start. But it got nerfed to 300 like 1 week later.
    It's 4800 now, was 6000. But I guess you don't play.
    Last edited by Denso; 2020-05-24 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Adding quote from new post

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    Lucky for you, catching-up is decently easy now.
    This 10char

  7. #47
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    I want you to find me the player who honestly says " I don't want to do as well as I could" instead. Everyone works to improve at nearly every level beyond those who quit at level cap.

    What your asking for is absurd in a rpg.
    I can find you atleast a few hundred thousand mate.
    I think you fail to realize... Most of the people play the game for fun. Not to minmax...

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Denso View Post
    It's quite simple. Gating is fine (not fun, but bearable/acceptable/understandable) for firstly obtaining any given item. It's not fine after that. If it took 3 hours of effective gameplay (across multiple weeks) to get rank 3 of an essence it's fine having to still spend 3 hours, but it should be farmable in one sitting. Gating should be a tool to prevent power surge at the start of a patch, and only that. The cloak is gating done properly, essences are how not to do it.
    Skill gating is fine... time gating... I don't really know any fans of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    I can find you atleast a few hundred thousand mate.
    I think you fail to realize... Most of the people play the game for fun. Not to minmax...
    Why not start with 3? Find me three knowing they are using less then the best essences and completely happy with it.
    Last edited by Laughingjack; 2020-05-24 at 07:24 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Lowering your standards works wonders. I have rank 1 conflict and strife because I don't like arenas. Most other major essences were nerfed to be easier to acquire, and even easier still on alts.

    I mean props on returning as a new player and immediately doing 5 weeks of arena and mythic+ after mythic+, holy crap. I was under the impression someone addicted enough to this game as to push for mythic raiding levels (you sure don't need all that for heroic) wouldn't take that long of a break.
    Many essences aren't really useful until rank 3. Conflict and Strife is a great example, it doesn't stack nearly as well until you get rank 3.

    The mechagon tank essence gets twice as good at rank 3. The difference between rank 2 and rank 3 is literally an 8% dps increase for me on N'Zoth.

    Essences + corruptions easily account for 2/3 of my dps, and azerite traits add a bit to that as well. Gear only really matters for health and scaling up the baseline damage a bit.

    I subbed about 75 days ago, I'm item level 474 3/12 mythic (pugging, probably stuck there now). I'm still farming some of my essences.
    Last edited by Scrod; 2020-05-24 at 07:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    I don't really hate bfa, outside of the extreme rng and crap systems and garbage gameplay

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Except it's not off-putting to new players, why are you making up stuff?
    Look, I know you seem to think WoW is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it’s a stale 15 year old loaf. It’s not an attractive game for players who’ve never tried it before. The massive changes being made in SL to the new player experience is a pretty clear recognition of this issue.

    Tbh I don’t think it’ll lead to a large influx of new players, but it might get a few returning players back.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2020-05-24 at 07:34 PM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    God help any new comers that decide to be a collector at this point... with the absolute multitudes of RNG.
    Being a collector is literally the pinnacle of RNG, why would they complain about something they actively strife for?

  12. #52
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    Skill gating is fine... time gating... I don't really know any fans of it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Why not start with 3? Find me three knowing they are using less then the best essences and completely happy with it.
    me 1
    https://i.imgur.com/GUQ2Ejb.png
    2
    https://i.imgur.com/kNLnkG9.png
    3
    https://i.imgur.com/Isduty3.png
    4
    https://i.imgur.com/GorERSS.png https://i.imgur.com/uLjuV9X.png
    5
    https://i.imgur.com/vN8P1Ht.png
    6
    https://i.imgur.com/idkF5vI.png
    7
    https://i.imgur.com/hqa5qlz.png
    8 9
    https://i.imgur.com/Q9kAzrq.png
    10
    https://i.imgur.com/tYvMSta.png
    11
    https://i.imgur.com/rkyLDk6.png
    12
    https://i.imgur.com/cCQUlrI.png
    13
    https://i.imgur.com/pjal6rz.png
    14
    https://i.imgur.com/593h0gt.png
    15
    https://i.imgur.com/5flhGEu.png
    16
    https://i.imgur.com/rBVFKnW.png
    17
    https://i.imgur.com/fVTbgZL.png
    18
    https://i.imgur.com/o2CQ8Aj.png
    19
    https://i.imgur.com/A8OAGsi.png
    20
    https://i.imgur.com/iJIKtGq.png
    21
    https://i.imgur.com/g8aro1k.png
    22
    and i might have lost a few in all these screencaps.

    oh got more coming
    https://i.imgur.com/eu8hxVO.png
    23


    Alright i think i got you 3 i think, i am not good at counting. Maybe you are big "superior progressed"



    and that is on quick notice, its abit early for people to chat with.

    (Took awhile to edit out the names cause im tired, i also started getting a ton so i just had to speed it up)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Look, I know you seem to think WoW is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it’s a stale 15 year old loaf. It’s not an attractive game for players who’ve never tried it before. The massive changes being made in SL to the new player experience is a pretty clear recognition of this issue.

    Tbh I don’t think it’ll lead to a large influx of new players, but it might get a few returning players back.
    You say that, but you would be surprised how many times we get "I dont play wow but this is really interesting im gunna try it"

    do you really think you know what the world thinks of the game mate?
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2020-05-24 at 07:57 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    I love how you smiled my math above.. essences do not take a month if you do all those.
    Lucid dreams takes 10 days doing bare minimum. Not a month.
    Conflict and strife you only need to do arena one week... After that you literally just fill your conquest bar doing anything else.
    Don't need to do bgs every week. Can literally finish it in 1 week by doing it all at once...
    Lol ileum and Rajani rep every day? You mean once a week/every 3.5 days.


    I feel like you haven't actually fucking done any of these.
    Especially since the Rajani don't give an essence my dude... Only the uldum rep does...
    Maybe do some research? Your entire post could only be more wrong by saying there is a battle pet azerite essence.

    - - - Updated - - -



    So y'all didn't get the legendaries? How did y'all get 2400/2600 without any legendaries. Or raid trinkets which were insanely overpowered in PvP there. What about the deathwing weapons. Which were super OP in PvP?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Except it's not off-putting to new players, why are you making up stuff?

    Really different time period then honestly...

    You really could just get full gear from logging in and conquest capping. After you spent a month or two just logging in once or twice a week to cap, you had every slot down except for your trinkets and weps. Then you only really had to do PVE for 1 boss if you wanted to. One of my locks got to 2.2k without full epics or a cunning, the other was abusing poison wep and cunning and hit 2.4k in my sleep. As long as you had a 2.2k wep you could get by without a DS wep or staff. Trinket was maybe the only debate but cunning was only super insane on dot cleaves like lock dk, boomkin firemage, etc. Staff on dot cleaves was pretty broken but something like mage DK it didn't matter much at all.

    So moving away from staff/cunning discussion, you then had vial/tentacle wep. These were probably the biggest abusers since melee cleave damage in like thugcleave or ret dk etc were really problematic since you could die in like 1 second from full. I never played those classes but as a shaman/lock duo so I didn't need to farm for those in my teams. My warrior always used 2.2k wep and never did PVE for those weps and we got 2486 as lock/warrior/shaman

    TLDR : cunning/staff were only absurdly broken in dotcleaves like spicey chicken cleave or LSD2.0, shaman lock rogue( rogue only needed vial, 2.2k weps were good enough for 2.5k+ ) /warrior/dk/mage didn't need them much. Game much different since u could log in and cap and log out for the week until full gear and then using that full gear you could push 2.2k for elite weps through skill then you really only had to do 1 PVE boss a week as opposed to BFA endless M+15 / heroic raids / corruption / essence etc. MISS THESE DAYS - sorry i rambled on a lot. Just to point out, I really like WoW still, its just super problematic for casual PVPers.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    me 1
    https://i.imgur.com/GUQ2Ejb.png
    2
    https://i.imgur.com/kNLnkG9.png
    3
    https://i.imgur.com/Isduty3.png
    4
    https://i.imgur.com/GorERSS.png https://i.imgur.com/uLjuV9X.png
    5
    https://i.imgur.com/vN8P1Ht.png
    6
    https://i.imgur.com/idkF5vI.png
    7
    https://i.imgur.com/hqa5qlz.png
    8 9
    https://i.imgur.com/Q9kAzrq.png
    10
    https://i.imgur.com/tYvMSta.png
    11
    https://i.imgur.com/rkyLDk6.png
    12
    https://i.imgur.com/cCQUlrI.png
    13
    https://i.imgur.com/pjal6rz.png
    14
    https://i.imgur.com/593h0gt.png
    15
    https://i.imgur.com/5flhGEu.png
    16
    https://i.imgur.com/rBVFKnW.png
    17
    https://i.imgur.com/fVTbgZL.png
    18
    https://i.imgur.com/o2CQ8Aj.png
    19
    https://i.imgur.com/A8OAGsi.png
    20
    https://i.imgur.com/iJIKtGq.png
    21
    https://i.imgur.com/g8aro1k.png
    22
    and i might have lost a few in all these screencaps.

    oh got more coming
    https://i.imgur.com/eu8hxVO.png
    23


    Alright i think i got you 3 i think, i am not good at counting. Maybe you are big "superior progressed"



    and that is on quick notice, its abit early for people to chat with.

    (Took awhile to edit out the names cause im tired, i also started getting a ton so i just had to speed it up)

    - - - Updated - - -



    You say that, but you would be surprised how many times we get "I dont play wow but this is really interesting im gunna try it"

    do you really think you know what the world thinks of the game mate?
    .... I am actually kinda speechless here.

    Not only did you fail to get the answer to the question I asked (you did fail though I know you want to argue that in your bones give me a second) you think this is a rebuttal?

    First off we are not talking about specs so lets dumpster...ooo roughly 90% of your examples. Lets cut away another 9% when we remove gear and trinkets...

    You have a singular example and that person using beam beyond a simple blank yes or no.

    I can't begin to understand wanting to win a argument so badly only to lose so brutally...

  15. #55
    I came back in the last patch and it was quite overwhelming. I had a ton of stuff done from the start of the xp like pathfinder 1 and it still was miserable.

    Honestly it took me about a month to get up to speed and it was pretty shitty. Doing pathfinder 2 crap was awful, with the cloak shit was just too much stuff to do every day. I suppose a counter argument is that you dont HAVE to do it everyday.

    I think my least favorite part was the time gating aspect of everything, they clearly do it to make you have to play everyday and have to be subbed for longer. It is so unenjoyable to only be able to do a little bit everyday instead of just grind something out when you are in the mood. It becomes a daily chore that they love for their activity numbers. I fear shadowlands will be the same.
    Last edited by Maruka; 2020-05-24 at 08:10 PM.

  16. #56
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    .... I am actually kinda speechless here.

    Not only did you fail to get the answer to the question I asked (you did fail though I know you want to argue that in your bones give me a second) you think this is a rebuttal?

    First off we are not talking about specs so lets dumpster...ooo roughly 90% of your examples. Lets cut away another 9% when we remove gear and trinkets...

    You have a singular example and that person using beam beyond a simple blank yes or no.

    I can't begin to understand wanting to win a argument so badly only to lose so brutally...
    Wow i prove you wrong and you move the goal posts. let me qoute you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    I want you to find me the player who honestly says " I don't want to do as well as I could" instead.
    And singular example?
    ok let me fucking go back
    Cause since you cant read mate






    8 right there all of these are in the above screenshots, but since you cant ******* read they suddenly dont exist.


    your literally 100% wrong, so you revert to just right out ******* lying, holy shit.
    pathetic mate, if your gunna try to get by a bald face lie, maybe dont do it when i literally have buckets of evidance?
    These are JUST the "Essences one" but your argument was people DO NOT play for fun they will ALWAYS pick BIS, you said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    I want you to find me the player who honestly says " I don't want to do as well as I could" instead.
    and i found tomns, who play specs, who use trinkets, and who use azerite traits/essences all that are not BIS.
    Most of the playerbase does not play with BIS in mind, or even care.
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2020-05-24 at 08:20 PM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    You say that, but you would be surprised how many times we get "I dont play wow but this is really interesting im gunna try it"

    do you really think you know what the world thinks of the game mate?
    Apparently YOU think you know what “the world” thinks after hearing a small handful of people saying they might try something with no follow through on whether they stuck around.

    I know plenty of people who tried WoW back when it was a new and wildly popular game and still quit before lvl10. The fact is that this game is over a decade and a half old. Games like this stick around because they have an established player base, not because they attract sizable numbers of new players. The downward trend that was clearly seen while sub numbers were still reported was indicative of this.

    The overhaul of the starting player experience is also a good indication that Blizzard recognized the issues inherent with having a long slog through over 100 irrelevant and disjointed levels. Even for veteran players with heirlooms and knowledge of the leveling flow it’s still a frustrating mess. I can’t even imagine how daunting that would be for a brand new player.

    Do some people stick it out? Sure, I’d imagine those players exist. However, if you think this game attracts AND MAINTAINS a large number of new players you’re delusional.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Wow i prove you wrong and you move the goal posts. let me qoute you.

    And singular example?
    ok let me fucking go back
    Cause since you cant read mate






    8 right there all of these are in the above screenshots, but since you cant ******* read they suddenly dont exist.


    your literally 100% wrong, so you revert to just right out ******* lying, holy shit.
    pathetic mate, if your gunna try to get by a bald face lie, maybe dont do it when i literally have buckets of evidance?
    These are JUST the "Essences one" but your argument was people DO NOT play for fun they will ALWAYS pick BIS, you said.

    and i found tomns, who play specs, who use trinkets, and who use azerite traits/essences all that are not BIS.
    Most of the playerbase does not play with BIS in mind, or even care.
    Here is the thing about being deceptive on the internet... we can all see you doing it. It was clear essences were the topic being discussed you trying desperately to move that onto talents and specs shows a extremely immature mindset. If you open the floor to everything then yes. There will be people who won't want to use active over passive talents or prefer one spec over the other more.

    When you talk about passive bonus like minor essences you know you don't have a leg to stand on so you try to change the topic like you just did.

  19. #59
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Apparently YOU think you know what “the world” thinks after hearing a small handful of people saying they might try something with no follow through on whether they stuck around.
    1. I mean its pretty obvious im a talkitive person, you dont think in my...
    5 years of being here with 21,000 posts ive talked with COUNTLESS people about it?

    2. yeah no, ive only hear the opinion of a small handful of people... only a tiny handful...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    Here is the thing about being deceptive on the internet... we can all see you doing it. It was clear essences were the topic being discussed you trying desperately to move that onto talents and specs shows a extremely immature mindset. If you open the floor to everything then yes. There will be people who won't want to use active over passive talents or prefer one spec over the other more.

    When you talk about passive bonus like minor essences you know you don't have a leg to stand on so you try to change the topic like you just did.
    I love how you say im changing the topic and all this and that, when thats literally all you fucking do.
    grow up mate, you were wrong, get over it, i showed you hard concrete proof that you were so cocky i couldnt even get 1, (And then 3 when you realized how easy 1 would be) and i showed you twenty fucking three.
    End of story.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    1. I mean its pretty obvious im a talkitive person, you dont think in my...
    5 years of being here with 21,000 posts ive talked with COUNTLESS people about it?

    2. yeah no, ive only hear the opinion of a small handful of people... only a tiny handful...

    - - - Updated - - -



    I love how you say im changing the topic and all this and that, when thats literally all you fucking do.
    grow up mate, you were wrong, get over it, i showed you hard concrete proof that you were so cocky i couldnt even get 1, (And then 3 when you realized how easy 1 would be) and i showed you twenty fucking three.
    End of story.
    You finding people who pick different specs and talents sure proved me wrong in our discussion on essences...

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