Returning Player getting "Overwhelmed"

[Denso]

It's quite simple. Gating is fine (not fun, but bearable/acceptable/understandable) for firstly obtaining any given item. It's not fine after that. If it took 3 hours of effective gameplay (across multiple weeks) to get rank 3 of an essence it's fine having to still spend 3 hours, but it should be farmable in one sitting. Gating should be a tool to prevent power surge at the start of a patch, and only that. The cloak is gating done properly, essences are how not to do it.

1. Wow I guess there is essences on Rajani

2. No, your wrong. It's 3000 go look it up yourself. It was 4800 at the start. But it got nerfed to 300 like 1 week later.

It's 4800 now, was 6000. But I guess you don't play.

[froschhure]

Lucky for you, catching-up is decently easy now.

This 10char

[FelPlague]

I want you to find me the player who honestly says " I don't want to do as well as I could" instead. Everyone works to improve at nearly every level beyond those who quit at level cap.

What your asking for is absurd in a rpg.

I can find you atleast a few hundred thousand mate.
I think you fail to realize... Most of the people play the game for fun. Not to minmax...

[Laughingjack]

It's quite simple. Gating is fine (not fun, but bearable/acceptable/understandable) for firstly obtaining any given item. It's not fine after that. If it took 3 hours of effective gameplay (across multiple weeks) to get rank 3 of an essence it's fine having to still spend 3 hours, but it should be farmable in one sitting. Gating should be a tool to prevent power surge at the start of a patch, and only that. The cloak is gating done properly, essences are how not to do it.

Skill gating is fine... time gating... I don't really know any fans of it.

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I can find you atleast a few hundred thousand mate.
I think you fail to realize... Most of the people play the game for fun. Not to minmax...

Why not start with 3? Find me three knowing they are using less then the best essences and completely happy with it.

[Adamas102]

Except it's not off-putting to new players, why are you making up stuff?

Look, I know you seem to think WoW is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it’s a stale 15 year old loaf. It’s not an attractive game for players who’ve never tried it before. The massive changes being made in SL to the new player experience is a pretty clear recognition of this issue.

Tbh I don’t think it’ll lead to a large influx of new players, but it might get a few returning players back.

[lollerlaban]

God help any new comers that decide to be a collector at this point... with the absolute multitudes of RNG.

Being a collector is literally the pinnacle of RNG, why would they complain about something they actively strife for?

[FelPlague]

Skill gating is fine... time gating... I don't really know any fans of it.

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Why not start with 3? Find me three knowing they are using less then the best essences and completely happy with it.

me 1
https://i.imgur.com/GUQ2Ejb.png
2
https://i.imgur.com/kNLnkG9.png
3
https://i.imgur.com/Isduty3.png
4
https://i.imgur.com/GorERSS.png https://i.imgur.com/uLjuV9X.png
5
https://i.imgur.com/vN8P1Ht.png
6
https://i.imgur.com/idkF5vI.png
7
https://i.imgur.com/hqa5qlz.png
8 9
https://i.imgur.com/Q9kAzrq.png
10
https://i.imgur.com/tYvMSta.png
11
https://i.imgur.com/rkyLDk6.png
12
https://i.imgur.com/cCQUlrI.png
13
https://i.imgur.com/pjal6rz.png
14
https://i.imgur.com/593h0gt.png
15
https://i.imgur.com/5flhGEu.png
16
https://i.imgur.com/rBVFKnW.png
17
https://i.imgur.com/fVTbgZL.png
18
https://i.imgur.com/o2CQ8Aj.png
19
https://i.imgur.com/A8OAGsi.png
20
https://i.imgur.com/iJIKtGq.png
21
https://i.imgur.com/g8aro1k.png
22
and i might have lost a few in all these screencaps.

oh got more coming
https://i.imgur.com/eu8hxVO.png
23


Alright i think i got you 3 i think, i am not good at counting. Maybe you are big "superior progressed"



and that is on quick notice, its abit early for people to chat with.

(Took awhile to edit out the names cause im tired, i also started getting a ton so i just had to speed it up)

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Look, I know you seem to think WoW is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it’s a stale 15 year old loaf. It’s not an attractive game for players who’ve never tried it before. The massive changes being made in SL to the new player experience is a pretty clear recognition of this issue.

Tbh I don’t think it’ll lead to a large influx of new players, but it might get a few returning players back.

You say that, but you would be surprised how many times we get "I dont play wow but this is really interesting im gunna try it"

do you really think you know what the world thinks of the game mate?

[Zeusy]

I love how you smiled my math above.. essences do not take a month if you do all those.
Lucid dreams takes 10 days doing bare minimum. Not a month.
Conflict and strife you only need to do arena one week... After that you literally just fill your conquest bar doing anything else.
Don't need to do bgs every week. Can literally finish it in 1 week by doing it all at once...
Lol ileum and Rajani rep every day? You mean once a week/every 3.5 days.


I feel like you haven't actually fucking done any of these.
Especially since the Rajani don't give an essence my dude... Only the uldum rep does...
Maybe do some research? Your entire post could only be more wrong by saying there is a battle pet azerite essence.

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So y'all didn't get the legendaries? How did y'all get 2400/2600 without any legendaries. Or raid trinkets which were insanely overpowered in PvP there. What about the deathwing weapons. Which were super OP in PvP?

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Except it's not off-putting to new players, why are you making up stuff?

Really different time period then honestly...

You really could just get full gear from logging in and conquest capping. After you spent a month or two just logging in once or twice a week to cap, you had every slot down except for your trinkets and weps. Then you only really had to do PVE for 1 boss if you wanted to. One of my locks got to 2.2k without full epics or a cunning, the other was abusing poison wep and cunning and hit 2.4k in my sleep. As long as you had a 2.2k wep you could get by without a DS wep or staff. Trinket was maybe the only debate but cunning was only super insane on dot cleaves like lock dk, boomkin firemage, etc. Staff on dot cleaves was pretty broken but something like mage DK it didn't matter much at all.

So moving away from staff/cunning discussion, you then had vial/tentacle wep. These were probably the biggest abusers since melee cleave damage in like thugcleave or ret dk etc were really problematic since you could die in like 1 second from full. I never played those classes but as a shaman/lock duo so I didn't need to farm for those in my teams. My warrior always used 2.2k wep and never did PVE for those weps and we got 2486 as lock/warrior/shaman

TLDR : cunning/staff were only absurdly broken in dotcleaves like spicey chicken cleave or LSD2.0, shaman lock rogue( rogue only needed vial, 2.2k weps were good enough for 2.5k+ ) /warrior/dk/mage didn't need them much. Game much different since u could log in and cap and log out for the week until full gear and then using that full gear you could push 2.2k for elite weps through skill then you really only had to do 1 PVE boss a week as opposed to BFA endless M+15 / heroic raids / corruption / essence etc. MISS THESE DAYS - sorry i rambled on a lot. Just to point out, I really like WoW still, its just super problematic for casual PVPers.

[Laughingjack]

me 1
https://i.imgur.com/GUQ2Ejb.png
2
https://i.imgur.com/kNLnkG9.png
3
https://i.imgur.com/Isduty3.png
4
https://i.imgur.com/GorERSS.png https://i.imgur.com/uLjuV9X.png
5
https://i.imgur.com/vN8P1Ht.png
6
https://i.imgur.com/idkF5vI.png
7
https://i.imgur.com/hqa5qlz.png
8 9
https://i.imgur.com/Q9kAzrq.png
10
https://i.imgur.com/tYvMSta.png
11
https://i.imgur.com/rkyLDk6.png
12
https://i.imgur.com/cCQUlrI.png
13
https://i.imgur.com/pjal6rz.png
14
https://i.imgur.com/593h0gt.png
15
https://i.imgur.com/5flhGEu.png
16
https://i.imgur.com/rBVFKnW.png
17
https://i.imgur.com/fVTbgZL.png
18
https://i.imgur.com/o2CQ8Aj.png
19
https://i.imgur.com/A8OAGsi.png
20
https://i.imgur.com/iJIKtGq.png
21
https://i.imgur.com/g8aro1k.png
22
and i might have lost a few in all these screencaps.

oh got more coming
https://i.imgur.com/eu8hxVO.png
23


Alright i think i got you 3 i think, i am not good at counting. Maybe you are big "superior progressed"



and that is on quick notice, its abit early for people to chat with.

(Took awhile to edit out the names cause im tired, i also started getting a ton so i just had to speed it up)

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You say that, but you would be surprised how many times we get "I dont play wow but this is really interesting im gunna try it"

do you really think you know what the world thinks of the game mate?

.... I am actually kinda speechless here.

Not only did you fail to get the answer to the question I asked (you did fail though I know you want to argue that in your bones give me a second) you think this is a rebuttal?

First off we are not talking about specs so lets dumpster...ooo roughly 90% of your examples. Lets cut away another 9% when we remove gear and trinkets...

You have a singular example and that person using beam beyond a simple blank yes or no.

I can't begin to understand wanting to win a argument so badly only to lose so brutally...

[Maruka]

I came back in the last patch and it was quite overwhelming. I had a ton of stuff done from the start of the xp like pathfinder 1 and it still was miserable.

Honestly it took me about a month to get up to speed and it was pretty shitty. Doing pathfinder 2 crap was awful, with the cloak shit was just too much stuff to do every day. I suppose a counter argument is that you dont HAVE to do it everyday.

I think my least favorite part was the time gating aspect of everything, they clearly do it to make you have to play everyday and have to be subbed for longer. It is so unenjoyable to only be able to do a little bit everyday instead of just grind something out when you are in the mood. It becomes a daily chore that they love for their activity numbers. I fear shadowlands will be the same.

[FelPlague]

.... I am actually kinda speechless here.

Not only did you fail to get the answer to the question I asked (you did fail though I know you want to argue that in your bones give me a second) you think this is a rebuttal?

First off we are not talking about specs so lets dumpster...ooo roughly 90% of your examples. Lets cut away another 9% when we remove gear and trinkets...

You have a singular example and that person using beam beyond a simple blank yes or no.

I can't begin to understand wanting to win a argument so badly only to lose so brutally...

Wow i prove you wrong and you move the goal posts. let me qoute you.

I want you to find me the player who honestly says " I don't want to do as well as I could" instead.

And singular example?
ok let me fucking go back
Cause since you cant read mate






8 right there all of these are in the above screenshots, but since you cant ******* read they suddenly dont exist.


your literally 100% wrong, so you revert to just right out ******* lying, holy shit.
pathetic mate, if your gunna try to get by a bald face lie, maybe dont do it when i literally have buckets of evidance?
These are JUST the "Essences one" but your argument was people DO NOT play for fun they will ALWAYS pick BIS, you said.

I want you to find me the player who honestly says " I don't want to do as well as I could" instead.

and i found tomns, who play specs, who use trinkets, and who use azerite traits/essences all that are not BIS.
Most of the playerbase does not play with BIS in mind, or even care.

[Adamas102]

You say that, but you would be surprised how many times we get "I dont play wow but this is really interesting im gunna try it"

do you really think you know what the world thinks of the game mate?

Apparently YOU think you know what “the world” thinks after hearing a small handful of people saying they might try something with no follow through on whether they stuck around.

I know plenty of people who tried WoW back when it was a new and wildly popular game and still quit before lvl10. The fact is that this game is over a decade and a half old. Games like this stick around because they have an established player base, not because they attract sizable numbers of new players. The downward trend that was clearly seen while sub numbers were still reported was indicative of this.

The overhaul of the starting player experience is also a good indication that Blizzard recognized the issues inherent with having a long slog through over 100 irrelevant and disjointed levels. Even for veteran players with heirlooms and knowledge of the leveling flow it’s still a frustrating mess. I can’t even imagine how daunting that would be for a brand new player.

Do some people stick it out? Sure, I’d imagine those players exist. However, if you think this game attracts AND MAINTAINS a large number of new players you’re delusional.

[Laughingjack]

Wow i prove you wrong and you move the goal posts. let me qoute you.

And singular example?
ok let me fucking go back
Cause since you cant read mate






8 right there all of these are in the above screenshots, but since you cant ******* read they suddenly dont exist.


your literally 100% wrong, so you revert to just right out ******* lying, holy shit.
pathetic mate, if your gunna try to get by a bald face lie, maybe dont do it when i literally have buckets of evidance?
These are JUST the "Essences one" but your argument was people DO NOT play for fun they will ALWAYS pick BIS, you said.

and i found tomns, who play specs, who use trinkets, and who use azerite traits/essences all that are not BIS.
Most of the playerbase does not play with BIS in mind, or even care.

Here is the thing about being deceptive on the internet... we can all see you doing it. It was clear essences were the topic being discussed you trying desperately to move that onto talents and specs shows a extremely immature mindset. If you open the floor to everything then yes. There will be people who won't want to use active over passive talents or prefer one spec over the other more.

When you talk about passive bonus like minor essences you know you don't have a leg to stand on so you try to change the topic like you just did.

[FelPlague]

Apparently YOU think you know what “the world” thinks after hearing a small handful of people saying they might try something with no follow through on whether they stuck around.

1. I mean its pretty obvious im a talkitive person, you dont think in my...
5 years of being here with 21,000 posts ive talked with COUNTLESS people about it?

2. yeah no, ive only hear the opinion of a small handful of people... only a tiny handful...

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Here is the thing about being deceptive on the internet... we can all see you doing it. It was clear essences were the topic being discussed you trying desperately to move that onto talents and specs shows a extremely immature mindset. If you open the floor to everything then yes. There will be people who won't want to use active over passive talents or prefer one spec over the other more.

When you talk about passive bonus like minor essences you know you don't have a leg to stand on so you try to change the topic like you just did.

I love how you say im changing the topic and all this and that, when thats literally all you fucking do.
grow up mate, you were wrong, get over it, i showed you hard concrete proof that you were so cocky i couldnt even get 1, (And then 3 when you realized how easy 1 would be) and i showed you twenty fucking three.
End of story.

[Laughingjack]

1. I mean its pretty obvious im a talkitive person, you dont think in my...
5 years of being here with 21,000 posts ive talked with COUNTLESS people about it?

2. yeah no, ive only hear the opinion of a small handful of people... only a tiny handful...

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I love how you say im changing the topic and all this and that, when thats literally all you fucking do.
grow up mate, you were wrong, get over it, i showed you hard concrete proof that you were so cocky i couldnt even get 1, (And then 3 when you realized how easy 1 would be) and i showed you twenty fucking three.
End of story.

You finding people who pick different specs and talents sure proved me wrong in our discussion on essences...

[FelPlague]

You finding people who pick different specs and talents sure proved me wrong in our discussion on essences...

Do you share your account with someone?

I want you to find me the player who honestly says " I don't want to do as well as I could" instead. Everyone works to improve at nearly every level beyond those who quit at level cap.

I don't think you really understand the game your playing or perhaps you just don't really understand people. No one looks at the first set of essences they scrounge together and say " This is good".

They don't consider the grind done till its full bis so that is easily a month for most classes. More if you add the cape and corruption. Call it the one percent if you must but its how the majority operates.

[Daedius]

Being a collector is literally the pinnacle of RNG, why would they complain about something they actively strife for?

It's fine if you've been keeping on top of it throughout the numerous expansions till now, someone starting fresh will be beyond overwhelmed with all the low drop rates and long respawn times, the grinds for rep for them paragon mounts, etc. etc. etc. etc. Blizzard giving horrid drop rates for things that you've spent an entire patch with no luck, for more to accumulate rolling on in with the next batch of content. I honestly wouldn't bother at all, to be a collector, if you're new -- just go with what looks neat.

[deenman]

PvP is generally a shitfest if you don't have the right gear loadout. I don't envy anyone grinding for C&S at the moment as you're going to get slaughtered over and over by anyone who already grinded their gear/essences.

locking the best pve essence behind competitive ranked pvp is one of the worst things blizz has ever done,the cloak in mop was annoying to so many people,i dont understand how there wasnt riots over THIS,granted its not difficulty,specialy with all the pve people that dont have to much experience doing arenas at those lower ratings,but still...to force people in doing what they dont want...i quit doing arenas after cata for a reason,trying to force me in to it just sucks

[lollerlaban]

It's fine if you've been keeping on top of it, someone starting fresh will be beyond overwhelmed with all the low drop rates and long respawn times, the grinds for rep for them paragon mounts, etc. etc. etc. etc. Blizzard giving horrid drop rates for things that you've spent an entire patch with no luck, for more to accumulate rolling on in with the next batch of content. I honestly wouldn't bother at all, to be a collector, if you're new -- just go with what looks neat.

It has always been like that though, why is this new?

[Daedius]

It has always been like that though, why is this new?

There's a massive difference starting from WotLK, and accumulating everything since then till now... and someone starting now with all prior content they have to do that you've done over the past decade if they plan to be a collector... they'd have to be an absolute no-lifer playing 24/7 to get even a third of the stuff.