1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Ardenaso's Avatar
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    What are the "Humans" in the Tomb of Sargeras supposed to be?

    Just saw this chapter (never played WC2 or BTDP) and it made me think, why are there humans here? I don't see any reference about the Alliance of Lordaeron chasing Gul'dan and Cho'gall here so I thought they might be something else.

    Are they actually representing the Nightfallen? Court of Farondis ghosts? Stormheim Vry'kul? Sentinel/Highborne/Priestess ghosts? or are they the Val'sharah Sentinels?

    Here's the chapter overview for reference:

    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  2. #2
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I guess that is what the story was back then, Alliance going after Gul'dan in some capacity. I assume Blizzard overlooked this/forgot.
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  3. #3
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Likely the defensive system constructed by Aegywnn on the occasion of the Avatar of Sargeras' defeat - built to keep everyone away from the Tomb of Sargeras in perpetuity. There are no Human forces listed as belligerents for this mission in WC2: ToD. It's just the Doomhammer loyalists consisting of the Blackrock clan and Black Tooth Grin clan as well as Gul'dan's loyalists consisting of the Stormreavers and Twilight's Hammer.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  4. #4
    In Wowpedia it's cited as an engine limitation. But for clarification more constructive, the humans are listed as citizens of Lordaeron (Nation of Dalaran, Kingdom of Azeroth). It would be reasonable to assume that it could be there just as a way for the campaign to load, as the game may only register a match occurring if there's an enemy to fight - even if you practically can't fight them. It may also be mandatory to have a force to be in control of the daemons for the map as they may not be recognized as their own faction by the game even if they are considered part of the Burning Legion at the time. For the purposes of an adventure map, a custom win condition may have been utilized as a work-around.

  5. #5
    I think this little adventure for the Scepter was described in one of the books. Maybe there are more "lore" expalanations what the orcs have fought?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    In Wowpedia it's cited as an engine limitation. But for clarification more constructive, the humans are listed as citizens of Lordaeron (Nation of Dalaran, Kingdom of Azeroth). It would be reasonable to assume that it could be there just as a way for the campaign to load, as the game may only register a match occurring if there's an enemy to fight - even if you practically can't fight them. It may also be mandatory to have a force to be in control of the daemons for the map as they may not be recognized as their own faction by the game even if they are considered part of the Burning Legion at the time. For the purposes of an adventure map, a custom win condition may have been utilized as a work-around.
    A map with less than 2 players has no enemies in WC2. The game had no such thing as hostile neutrals. They did use custom win conditions all the time in the campaign, though.

    Also, the demon is the only non-aligned unit that isn't a critter in the game. Everything else is either Horde or Alliance. Without Alliance troops, enemy diversity in the map would have taken a nosedive.

    This map actually features 5 factions - blue, violet and white are Alliance(cross shaped starting points), black and turquoise are Horde(circle), with turquoise being a non-combatant that automatically joins black when units come near.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Likely the defensive system constructed by Aegywnn on the occasion of the Avatar of Sargeras' defeat - built to keep everyone away from the Tomb of Sargeras in perpetuity. There are no Human forces listed as belligerents for this mission in WC2: ToD. It's just the Doomhammer loyalists consisting of the Blackrock clan and Black Tooth Grin clan as well as Gul'dan's loyalists consisting of the Stormreavers and Twilight's Hammer.
    But shouldn't we have seen some references of them in WC3 when Maiev chases Illidan there?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Devonitar View Post
    I think this little adventure for the Scepter was described in one of the books. Maybe there are more "lore" expalanations what the orcs have fought?
    I wish we have seen of them as well in Legion
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  8. #8
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    But shouldn't we have seen some references of them in WC3 when Maiev chases Illidan there?
    Presumably at that point they were destroyed by Gul'dan and his Stormreavers so he could make his way into the tomb's depths. The only security left in the Tomb would've been the demons drawn to Sargeras' lingering essence and whatever traps were left inside the tomb (e.g. what we see in place in the Legion raid).
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I guess that is what the story was back then, Alliance going after Gul'dan in some capacity. I assume Blizzard overlooked this/forgot.
    Makes me wish that Blizzard North would come back and perhaps make WoW 2 to satisfy the Warcraft 2/3 purists

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Presumably at that point they were destroyed by Gul'dan and his Stormreavers so he could make his way into the tomb's depths. The only security left in the Tomb would've been the demons drawn to Sargeras' lingering essence and whatever traps were left inside the tomb (e.g. what we see in place in the Legion raid).
    I thought Aegwynn's defenses were only destroyed recently in Legion?
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  10. #10
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I thought Aegwynn's defenses were only destroyed recently in Legion?
    The interior defenses, yes. Gul'dan never got the Eye of Sargeras, though; he died en route. You can actually find his corpse in the Tomb in Legion as well as the runes where he recorded his journey and death there.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  11. #11
    Legendary! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    You can actually find his corpse in the Tomb in Legion as well as the runes where he recorded his journey and death there.
    Come to think of it, Guldan's corpse and its associated runes was one of the coolest bits of lore in the otherwise heavily retconned Legion expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danuser
    we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took (...). These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries.

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