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  1. #1

    Why aren't Tauren and Draenei just Neutral?

    I mean every other race has a reason to hate the other faction. Orc has hatred from the second war, Undead has hatred from the Scarlet Crusade and general rejection of undeath, Trolls probably aren't too happy about having their siblings be genocided and be used as target practice, Blood elves are still pissed about Garithos and Goblins do whatever, Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes probably still have hatred from the second war, Night elves are pissed for Ashenvale and Teldrassil and Worgen are still angry about Gilneas.

    Then what about Tauren and Draenei? Why do they participate in the faction war? The Tauren specifically Baine is basically an alliance puppet and constantly undermines and works against his own faction. Draenei on the other hand never participate in anything. I don't think I have ever seen Velen in a faction war setting. They didn't help at Teldrassil and are just very neutral, just look at Argus. Do Tauren feel the need to repay the orcs for saving them from the centaurs? Cairne is dead and Thrall was out of the picture of many years. Draenei supposedly joined because of the orcs, but the Draenei are at fault themselves for bringing the Burning Legion to Draenor in the first place, in fact, Draenei should apologise for what they did to the orcs

    Gameplay reasons maybe?
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  2. #2
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    one word: Stonespire

    But I would've preferred a better Cataclysm where Cairne and Vol'jin bailed out of the Horde when Garrosh took over since their blood oath is for Thrall himself
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  3. #3
    Baine is, at worst, already neutral. The draenei kind of already had their arc with Legion and are rolling with the story at this point it seems. Their whole thing was returning home to defeat the Legion, job done, thanks Alliance.

    Heck, if you want a headcanon, they might just be chilling in the Exodar for the forseeable future working on their ship to get off this planet. There was an Anduin comic that seemed to imply the Exodar was fixed in the distant future.
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  4. #4
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Both Tauren and Draenai doesn't really need to exist, they contribute nothing to the overall story.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Both Tauren and Draenai doesn't really need to exist, they contribute nothing to the overall story.
    To “add” Let’s just make it orcs and humans only. The rest are just fodder might as well just take them out too.

    Wait! I have an even better idea! Make
    it just human vs human.
    Now that’s some good fantasy story right there.
    Just humans.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    one word: Stonespire

    But I would've preferred a better Cataclysm where Cairne and Vol'jin bailed out of the Horde when Garrosh took over since their blood oath is for Thrall himself
    Or better solution, no garrosh

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    Burning Legion would of invaded Dreanor eventually regardless and the Orcs made a road of thier skulls so......even i guess?

  7. #7
    For the Draenei, see the Path of Glory, a road paved with the bones of Draenei. The Orcs were merciless to the Draenei on the world they shared. The Draenei can forgive a lot, and have allied themselves with the Horde to defeat the Burning Legion many times, but on a personal level it may be hard for Draenei who have suffered genocide to put it past the Orcs - even if they were corrupted by demon blood at the time. Eredar who gave into the Legion and suffer demon blood may be less sympathetic to these atrocities unrelated to them, and they may even condone or relish in the Orcs' old decimation of the fleeing Draenei who didn't bend the knee to Sargeras.

    For the Tauren, see the desecration of their ancestral lands by the Dwarves in Mulgore, and more recently the Alliance's massacre at Camp Taurajo specifically cited as being done by a firebombing by the Wildhammer Clan, which resulted in the rise of the Great Gate that closes off Mulgore. The Stonespire tribe was also wiped out by by dwarves of Bael'dun keep. The tauren see the Dwarfs' digging as hallowing, scarring, and defiling of the Earth Mother (1, 2, 3). Back during the War of the Ancients, Desdel Stareye regarded the Tauren as barbaric and uncivilized, though in more recent times Varian recounted that the Tauren were the only ones among the Horde that didn't make him want to draw his sword. While the Humans seem to get along well enough with Tauren in general, and the Tauren have a steady relationship with the Night Elf sentinels after the War of the Ancients, the dwarves keep ruining relations with the Tauren over and over again.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    I mean every other race has a reason to hate the other faction. Orc has hatred from the second war, Undead has hatred from the Scarlet Crusade and general rejection of undeath, Trolls probably aren't too happy about having their siblings be genocided and be used as target practice, Blood elves are still pissed about Garithos and Goblins do whatever, Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes probably still have hatred from the second war, Night elves are pissed for Ashenvale and Teldrassil and Worgen are still angry about Gilneas.

    Then what about Tauren and Draenei? Why do they participate in the faction war? The Tauren specifically Baine is basically an alliance puppet and constantly undermines and works against his own faction. Draenei on the other hand never participate in anything. I don't think I have ever seen Velen in a faction war setting. They didn't help at Teldrassil and are just very neutral, just look at Argus. Do Tauren feel the need to repay the orcs for saving them from the centaurs? Cairne is dead and Thrall was out of the picture of many years. Draenei supposedly joined because of the orcs, but the Draenei are at fault themselves for bringing the Burning Legion to Draenor in the first place, in fact, Draenei should apologise for what they did to the orcs

    Gameplay reasons maybe?
    At least originally the taurens and dwarves were fighting each other and the taurens hated what the dwarves were doing to the planet, which is a big plot hole since the NE never seemed to care. Baine is a dogshit leader though and you can see that entire race becoming more directionless with him at the helm. Draenei are very much like the BE or NE they participate in as few things as they possibly can while still getting the benefits of being in the larger group. Ultimately we only have various races to check boxes for gameplay since the lore is pretty chewed up at this point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    Or better solution, no garrosh

    - - - Updated - - -

    Burning Legion would of invaded Dreanor eventually regardless and the Orcs made a road of thier skulls so......even i guess?
    Many of the orcs that did that too them are not the same orcs you see in game now. The races of Azeroth don't hold Dreanei responsible for what Archi or Kil'jaeden did or the throngs of followers he had that were spacegoats. Even at the best of times the lore doesn't hold up if you do the tiniest bit of digging.
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  9. #9
    Because Blizzard did not think ahead when introducing them.

    Same reason why Blood elves are still horde, Nightborn are still Horde and the Vindicar still exists. They all served one purpose at some point but now cause lore inconsistencies. Because despite what they are claiming, Blizzard does not think two or even one expansion ahead.

    Besides: After MoP the faction war should have ended anyway. Blizz just doesn't have the balls (or lack vision) to unite the factions. Because it would require them to think of a meaningful alternative to world PvP; something they are already struggle to do right.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    At least originally the taurens and dwarves were fighting each other and the taurens hated what the dwarves were doing to the planet, which is a big plot hole since the NE never seemed to care. Baine is a dogshit leader though and you can see that entire race becoming more directionless with him at the helm. Draenei are very much like the BE or NE they participate in as few things as they possibly can while still getting the benefits of being in the larger group. Ultimately we only have various races to check boxes for gameplay since the lore is pretty chewed up at this point.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Many of the orcs that did that too them are not the same orcs you see in game now. The races of Azeroth don't hold Dreanei responsible for what Archi or Kil'jaeden did or the throngs of followers he had that were spacegoats. Even at the best of times the lore doesn't hold up if you do the tiniest bit of digging.
    Still reason for the dreani to be wary of orcs
    Last edited by WonderZebra; 2020-05-24 at 10:51 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    Still reason for the dreani to be aware of orcs
    But...they are aware of them. They both know the other lives on Azeroth.

    Come to think of it, I can't even remember seeing in-game an orc or draenei even interacting(excluding WoD). It would be nice just to see some talking.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mungho View Post
    But...they are aware of them. They both know the other lives on Azeroth.

    Come to think of it, I can't even remember seeing in-game an orc or draenei even interacting(excluding WoD). It would be nice just to see some talking.
    I meant wary......

    Not really sure why i typed aware.....

  13. #13
    The Draenei appear neutral because Blizzard did an awful job developping them and also refused the make use of the Horde in Legion. The Draenei have no reason to like the Orcs, especially after the War of Thorns, they all lost loved ones to the Orcs and it was stated that they joined the Alliance to fight the Burning Legion and avenge the crimes committed by the Orcs in the TBC Manual...

  14. #14
    It is about the same reason druids and to a certain degree shamans are actually fighting in the wars, or the same reasons guild halls just stopped existing with BfA because everyone was suddenly going to their factions - forced conflict.
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  15. #15
    Old God Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Not all taurens are spineless cowards like Baine

    this is their quote in wc3:
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2020-05-25 at 09:40 AM.

  16. #16
    The Draenei share a religion with Humans (and a lot of other Alliance races that are Light followers), they specifically came to Azeroth to find the Alliance and join it, they also happen to be a very small faction lore wise which can't really realistically survive without assistance and protection on Azeroth between the major factions. They also have a substantial racial trauma concerning the Orcs (that whole highway paved with their bones in Hellfire Peninsula and the butchery in Black Temple). Also, as all Light worshipers they tend to abhor the Undead, abhor being an understatement. Add the triple extra layer of the Belfs whole Fel Crack addiction situation around the time they got to Azeroth.

    They have a religious, cultural and political affinity towards the Alliance, more specifically and specially the Humans, with whom they furthermore share a lot of racial trauma and animosity towards the Orcs. Their affiliation is simply natural, adding the military realities it was automatic.

    The Tauren is a bit more diffuse and has a lot to do with concepts of honor and a sense of owing their survival to the Horde combined with the geographical and military realities of them living literally next to Orgrimmar. There are also elements of cultural affinity. Tho they don't have any specific racial animosity towards the Alliance, share some commonalities and history with the Night Elves and could fairly easily co-exist with the Alliance or be even part if it.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2020-05-25 at 10:26 AM.
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  17. #17
    The answer for both is simple. Orcs.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    To “add” Let’s just make it orcs and humans only. The rest are just fodder might as well just take them out too.

    Wait! I have an even better idea! Make
    it just human vs human.
    Now that’s some good fantasy story right there.
    Just humans.
    Yeah, you're right, Game of Thrones was really only popular because of the dragons and white walkers. /s

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    I mean every other race has a reason to hate the other faction. Orc has hatred from the second war, Undead has hatred from the Scarlet Crusade and general rejection of undeath, Trolls probably aren't too happy about having their siblings be genocided and be used as target practice, Blood elves are still pissed about Garithos and Goblins do whatever, Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes probably still have hatred from the second war, Night elves are pissed for Ashenvale and Teldrassil and Worgen are still angry about Gilneas.

    Then what about Tauren and Draenei? Why do they participate in the faction war? The Tauren specifically Baine is basically an alliance puppet and constantly undermines and works against his own faction. Draenei on the other hand never participate in anything. I don't think I have ever seen Velen in a faction war setting. They didn't help at Teldrassil and are just very neutral, just look at Argus. Do Tauren feel the need to repay the orcs for saving them from the centaurs? Cairne is dead and Thrall was out of the picture of many years. Draenei supposedly joined because of the orcs, but the Draenei are at fault themselves for bringing the Burning Legion to Draenor in the first place, in fact, Draenei should apologise for what they did to the orcs

    Gameplay reasons maybe?
    Going out on a limb and saying Tauren=blood debt for the Orcs saving their race while the Alliance did nothing to help them, and Draenai=not trusting Orcs as they were used/allied with the Burning Legion who tried to genocide/imprison those that didn’t join them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Laubman View Post
    The answer for both is simple. Orcs.
    This is definitely the short, easy answer for what I just stated. Well played.

  20. #20
    Tauren and Draenei are both too small factions to be able to protect themselves so need alliances.

    The Centaur almost wiped out the Tauren to extinction so being allies with the Orcs & Trolls (and now goblins) was essential to their survival. That goes two ways - they get aid but then have to aid the other races.

    Same goes for Draenei. They need allies on Azeroth. The Night Elve lands are nearby as an ally, and the Orcs used to genocide them and allied with their greatest enemies so they're not big fans.

    The outlier now are Blood Elves. Now that Alliance has reclaimed Arathi and rebuilt Stormgarde, are rebuilding Gilneas and sacked Undercity, Blood Elves are tactically in an INCREDIBLY bad place to stay allied with the Horde. This should have been a bigger point in BFA imo. They became completely isolated against the Alliances largest forces.
    Last edited by rogueMatthias; 2020-05-25 at 11:34 AM.
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