Why aren't Tauren and Draenei just Neutral?

[Blackmist]

Why aren't Draenei neutral? Well let me see now...



Ah yes, that would be why.

[Ielenia]

a coward would do that yes, also, a coward would not ACT, against the warchief, that is simple

And Baine did act against the warchief, therefore proving he is not a coward. We're getting somewhere, finally.

there is nothing saying they were training soldiers, isn't like a militar based of training to raise more kor'kron

Other than training and outfitting warriors and hunters for the Horde.

there was no threat and they never did a thing, they attack literally because the intel was wrong about it

It's an outpost training and outfitting soldiers for the Horde, and that it could be used as staging grounds for an incursion into Durstwallow Marsh. Everything you're using to disqualify Taraujo as a valid military target also disqualifies Theramore.


they aren't and again, is dishonest to say that, theramore was sending resources and reinforcements to attack the horde, directly, and acted as a main alliance base to attack the horde, taurujo never done such thing[/QUOTE]

[Syegfryed]

And Baine did act against the warchief, therefore proving he is not a coward. We're getting somewhere, finally.

is like "a guy killed people before, but now he didn't, so he isn't a murderer"


my dude, you can't erase Baine past of cowardice because he did something sneaky in the end of the expansion, no matter how you try

Other than training and outfitting warriors and hunters for the Horde.

ergo, not a threat to the alliance

It's an outpost training and outfitting soldiers for the Horde

they were just trainers there, they were not "outfitting soldiers" any city have hunter of warriors trainers, those trainers were mostly defending their own people against quilboars, not a threat to the alliance in any way

and that it could be used as staging grounds for an incursion into Durstwallow Marsh. Everything you're using to disqualify Taraujo as a valid military target also disqualifies Theramore.

it could be is different than it was

they aren't and again, is dishonest to say that, theramore was sending resources and reinforcements to attack the horde, directly, and acted as a main alliance base to attack the horde

why is dishonesty when its the truth?

taurujo never done such thing

and they did not

lets see how you can distort more things to fit this narrative

[Ielenia]

is like "a guy killed people before, but now he didn't, so he isn't a murderer"

Only it's nowhere near the same thing as you're, once again, equating a crime to being a coward. Apples and oranges, dude.

my dude, you can't erase Baine past of cowardice because he did something sneaky in the end of the expansion, no matter how you try

He questioned Garrosh as well, and joined the rebellion against him. Once again, those aren't the actions of a coward.

ergo, not a threat to the alliance

That's like saying me pointing a gun in your direction is not a threat to you.

they were just trainers there, they were not "outfitting soldiers" any city have hunter of warriors trainers, those trainers were mostly defending their own people against quilboars, not a threat to the alliance in any way

Oh, please, don't try to imply that those soldiers were being trained solely to fight the quilboar, especially when there are Alliance outposts near it. They were training soldiers. And that's it. Any sort of military outpost, is a valid military target.

it could be is different than it was

The same thing could be said about Theramore.

why is dishonesty when its the truth?



and they did not

lets see how you can distort more things to fit this narrative

... Did you honestly never realize that in your your last two quotes you were literally arguing against yourself?

they aren't and again, is dishonest to say that, theramore was sending resources and reinforcements to attack the horde, directly, and acted as a main alliance base to attack the horde, taurujo never done such thing

That says a lot, really.

[sam86]

Or better solution, no garrosh

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Burning Legion would of invaded Dreanor eventually regardless and the Orcs made a road of thier skulls so......even i guess?

in Rise of the Horde, they made it very clear that BL didn't want to invade Dreanor and considered it low priority planet, Archimonde even scolded Kil'jaiden for checking it (before they know it had the hidden draenei)
So a big clear fat no, if it wasn't for draenei, BL wouldn't touched that planet in a million year, not before love-to-rape-lolis Sargeras penetrated every plant that had a loli titan soul first
Also orcs slaughtered their own kind, not just draenei, with bloodlust and prior to dark portal creation the horde turned on each other, and even before that they killed any tribe that refused the blood offering like white claw alongside the draenei

[fwc577]

Baine is, at worst, already neutral. The draenei kind of already had their arc with Legion and are rolling with the story at this point it seems. Their whole thing was returning home to defeat the Legion, job done, thanks Alliance.

Heck, if you want a headcanon, they might just be chilling in the Exodar for the forseeable future working on their ship to get off this planet. There was an Anduin comic that seemed to imply the Exodar was fixed in the distant future.

Shadowlands time skip feature confirmed.

[cirdanx]

He questioned Garrosh as well, and joined the rebellion against him. Once again, those aren't the actions of a coward.

HE declared Vol´Jin a traitor when questioning Garosh, the question alone being a death sentence by his own words he is a traitor.
Fucking Bane is not only a traitor to the horde as a whole, no matter the warchief but to his own people. Cairne is turning in his grave.

[Ielenia]

HE declared Vol´Jin a traitor when questioning Garosh, the question alone being a death sentence by his own words he is a traitor.
Fucking Bane is not only a traitor to the horde as a whole, no matter the warchief but to his own people. Cairne is turning in his grave.

"Traitor". Good job writing a lot but saying nothing, since "being a traitor" was never part of what I'm discussing.

[Powerogue]

Even with Baine single-hoofedly being responsible for uniting the Horde and Alliance against Sylvanas with his act of courage we still get the thread degrading into hating on him. Good grief, I swear the guy could have died this expansion saving a hundred horde orphanages from Sylvanas setting them on fire and we'd still have people here wanting to hunt him into the Shadowlands to dig up this dead horse and continue beating it.

As far as I"m concerned with the faction war declared over, they are neutral.

Why aren't Draenei neutral? Well let me see now...

[img]https://i.imgur.com/WnMcKgQ.png[img]

Ah yes, that would be why.

...HOWEVER my lightforged will still gladly join the crusades if Yrel comes a'knockin'. :P

[Syegfryed]

Only it's nowhere near the same thing as you're, once again, equating a crime to being a coward. Apples and oranges, dude.

its the same damn scenario, you are excuing and ignoring the past for something recent "he isn't a coward because even if he was a damn coward before now he did something, so automatically erase his past cowardice!1!!!""

He questioned Garrosh as well, and joined the rebellion against him. Once again, those aren't the actions of a coward.

the actions of a no-coward, would be challenge his warchief and either start the rebellion, or join before garrosh had kicked out everyone else

he was a coward for not facing garrosh

That's like saying me pointing a gun in your direction is not a threat to you.

talk alot about comparing apples to orages

the weapon, isn't pointing to you, youa re just afraid of it, if you were in my house trying to kill me

Oh, please, don't try to imply that those soldiers were being trained solely to fight the quilboar, especially when there are Alliance outposts near it. They were training soldiers. And that's it. Any sort of military outpost, is a valid military target.

"the alliance outpost is near then, invading their lands and assassin their people, of course they are a threat to the alliance"

jesus, do you even read yourself

The same thing could be said about Theramore.

it could not

... Did you honestly never realize that in your your last two quotes you were literally arguing against yourself?

ima arguing with someone who don't even know what he is doing here, you are nitpicking and read hearing the entire conversation, and now want to paint theramore at the same as taurujo to improve your nonsense narrative

[Ielenia]

the actions of a no-coward, would be challenge his warchief and either start the rebellion, or join before garrosh had kicked out everyone else

he was a coward for not facing garrosh

He did face Garrosh. Because he joined the rebellion. A coward would not.

talk alot about comparing apples to orages

the weapon, isn't pointing to you, youa re just afraid of it, if you were in my house trying to kill me

Alright. Let me rephrase: "that's like as if your drunkard of a neighbor who has tendencies to lash out and physically assault random people now owns a gun."

it could not

It can, yes. And I've explained that. Civilians? Check. "Non-threatening"? Check.

ima arguing with someone who don't even know what he is doing here

Considering you were literally arguing against yourself, I tend to agree. You were indeed "arguing against someone who don't even know what he is doing here."

you are nitpicking and read hearing the entire conversation, and now want to paint theramore at the same as taurujo to improve your nonsense narrative

That's because they are. Both are "valid military targets". And any argument used to disqualify one from being a military target, also disqualifies the other.

[vilememory]

The Draenei are neutral, they are just sticking with the Alliance until they can bail on Azeroth. The only thing that matters to the Draenei is themselves and their Naaru masters. As for the Tauren, they go neutral the first thing that will happen is Magatha takes over and the tauren become the new orcs genociding everything in Kalimdor because tauren supremacy.

[Syegfryed]

He did face Garrosh. Because he joined the rebellion. A coward would not.

Again, not in mak'gora, not the way he should have done, he spend cataclysm till the last patch of mop in cowardice until he had a rebelion to stand, exactly what cowards do

Things are straight forward, Baine could have faced Garrosh in mak'gora, but he was too much of a coward to do so, you can't argue with that because the reelion came up later

Baine in another reality was not a coward, he faced Garrosh and took the Warchief position

It can, yes. And I've explained that. Civilians? Check. "Non-threatening"? Check.

Are you sure saying with a straight up face that theramore was "non-threatening" the horde? are you joking?

Considering you were literally arguing against yourself, I tend to agree. You were indeed "arguing against someone who don't even know what he is doing here."

did you just went back to the kindergarten years of argumentation?

That's because they are. Both are "valid military targets". And any argument used to disqualify one from being a military target, also disqualifies the other.

one isn't a valid target

they literally only attacked because they received false information saying it was a valid target

if false information, said it was a valid target, obviously in truth, it was not, pretty straight forward.

[Raisei]

Again, not in mak'gora, not the way he should have done, he spend cataclysm till the last patch of mop in cowardice until he had a rebelion to stand, exactly what cowards do

Things are straight forward, Baine could have faced Garrosh in mak'gora, but he was too much of a coward to do so, you can't argue with that because the reelion came up later

Baine in another reality was not a coward, he faced Garrosh and took the Warchief position

Of course he could have. Not like he witnessed a mak'gora with Garrosh where his dad was killed by cheating or anything. Wait. That happened? Oh damn Baine would have to be a blithering idiot to trust that Garrosh would fight fair when he challenged him. Circumstances might not exist in your black and white worldview but for most people they do.

Also, challenging someone that you know you cannot beat is not brave but stupid. Neither Saurfangs nor Baines suicide in mak'gorah would have changed anything at that point in time. Sylvanas would have just kept killing anyone that became a threat to her rule, like she tried with Thrall.

Are you sure saying with a straight up face that theramore was "non-threatening" the horde? are you joking?

Jaina only became a threat to the Horde AFTER her city was bombed. She was one of the biggest advocates for peace on the planet. Garrosh had loudly declared his intentions for Kalimdor, so of course the Alliance fortified one of their major outposts there. Again, you just pick whatever detail you like and dismiss everything around it.

did you just went back to the kindergarten years of argumentation?

Considering your argumentation is baiscally "lalala Baine is a coward lalala" this is an amusing line.

one isn't a valid target

they literally only attacked because they received false information saying it was a valid target

if false information, said it was a valid target, obviously in truth, it was not, pretty straight forward.

The false information was only that they were preparing an attack. The threat of training soldiers remains. Baine sanctioned the attack afterwards. No matter what you say about him, he is the authority and his word counts.

[Ielenia]

he spend cataclysm till the last patch of mop in cowardice until he had a rebelion to stand, exactly what cowards do

No. That is not what cowards do. Cowards do not join rebellions.

Things are straight forward, Baine could have faced Garrosh in mak'gora, but he was too much of a coward to do so, you can't argue with that because the reelion came up later

Yes, I can argue against that. Because the mak'gora is useless for Baine if he has no chance of winning, and Baine is nowhere near the fighter that Garrosh was. Challenging Garrosh would have resulted in nothing, at best.

Are you sure saying with a straight up face that theramore was "non-threatening" the horde? are you joking?

Why would it be threatening?

did you just went back to the kindergarten years of argumentation?

You're one who literally argued against yourself. That shows a lot about how you much (or little) you try to understand what it's written on other people's post if you couldn't even recognize something you wrote and immediately argued against it as if it was me who wrote it.

one isn't a valid target

they literally only attacked because they received false information saying it was a valid target

if false information, said it was a valid target, obviously in truth, it was not, pretty straight forward.

Yes, both were valid military targets, false information or not. The "false information" was about regarding an incoming Horde attack coming from Taraujo, not that Taraujo was a valid military target.

[owbu]

No. That is not what cowards do. Cowards do not join rebellions.

Wait, what? Could you ellaborate on that :>? Looks quite .... wrong.

[Raisei]

Baine only did what any honorable warrior would do when faced with a warchief like Sylvanas, who also ended up being the biggest traitor to the Horde.

100% true, but people will now bombard you with reasons why honor does not matter for the Horde and why Baine is a coward and traitor. Be prepared.

On Argus it was kinda important to not kill the Horde, seeing as they were faced with Sargeras and his minions. As for Velen and the faction war, you could ask the same thing about many other leaders. What about Mekkatorque? What about the Dwarven council? When did Vol'jin participate in the faction war? I don't know why Velen sticks out, but he certainly does not like orcs any more than anybody else in the Alliance, considering what they did to the Draenei.

Mekkatorque actually personally helped in attacking Dazar'alor and squished some Hordes with his mech suit. Velen I think only showed up during the pre-Darkshore discussion in the SW Keep to show you the cutscene and was gone from the story afterwards.

[Raisei]

It's so funny, because if you wanna be a hero, going against your warchief is probably the most courageous thing you could do. He was almost executed for what he did. That's not the act of a coward.

Absolutely, but as you can see in this thread the hatred towards Baine makes some Horde players go nearly incoherent. Facts do no longer matter at this point. They would rather be lead by a psychopathic banshee Facist that is actively trying to kill them, then follow a well-meaning guy that still upholds the ideals of Thrall's Horde. I don't know when the Horde lost all reasonable thinking but by now they definately went over the deep end.

Oh yeah I guess. I guess Velen is a bit more reserved when it comes to that, maybe because of his role as a prophet and a priest. He doesn't seem like the bloodthirsty type. Not that it wouldn't make sense for him to participate more actively, but I guess they want to highlight his more peaceful side.

Also the thing is, you can say that about Mekkatorque now, but that happened only recently. Before then you could also say, well he hasn't really participated in the faction war much. I think it just has to do with how screentime for characters is allocated, and we had major amounts of Velen screentime in WoD and Legion. If you use Velen for everything Draenor, Light, Burning Legion etc. related, do you wanna use him for the faction war as a character? People will just get Velen fatigue, and there are maybe other characters better suited for that.

Ye, I also think they cut back on Velen a bit to not have him central in another expansion. It does not make much sense, since you would assume that after Teldrassil he is incredibly worried about the future of the Azuremist Isles and the Exodar but it's okay.

[Ielenia]

Wait, what? Could you ellaborate on that :>? Looks quite .... wrong.

The kind of coward Syegfryed is implying Baine is would not dare join a rebellion because of fear of reprisal.

[Syegfryed]

No. That is not what cowards do. Cowards do not join rebellions.

lol? why not? when you have a rebelion to back up that cowardice you can do anything

like i said, cowards with money can do a lot of things, because they have something to back that up, your baine defenses are getting worse and worse

first cowards don't badmouth, now cowards don't rebel, stop thinking this is a matter of 8 or 80, baine did acts of cowardice, that is just a fact

Yes, I can argue against that. Because the mak'gora is useless for Baine if he has no chance of winning, and Baine is nowhere near the fighter that Garrosh was. Challenging Garrosh would have resulted in nothing, at best.

and we know this is damn wrong, since Baine have completely chances of winning and even on against him in other timelines

Why would it be threatening?

i dunno, by ltierally attacking durotar and reinforcing northwatch hold?

You're one who literally argued against yourself. That shows a lot about how you much (or little) you try to understand what it's written on other people's post if you couldn't even recognize something you wrote and immediately argued against it as if it was me who wrote it.

blablabla

Yes, both were valid military targets, false information or not. The "false information" was about regarding an incoming Horde attack coming from Taraujo, not that Taraujo was a valid military target.

both were not militar targets, you can't distort that too

one was supposed to be a valid target by false information

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The kind of coward Syegfryed is implying Baine is would not dare join a rebellion because of fear of reprisal.

"the kind of cward i imply to be" no friend, this is you projecting

Baine is a coward, i said

you said no, he isn't one

now you are going to say me he isn't the worst coward, just a bit coward, or what? this is getting pathetic

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Of course he could have. Not like he witnessed a mak'gora with Garrosh where his dad was killed by cheating or anything. Wait. That happened? Oh damn Baine would have to be a blithering idiot to trust that Garrosh would fight fair when he challenged him. Circumstances might not exist in your black and white worldview but for most people they do.

It was not Garrosh who cheated, it was a Tauren

Also, challenging someone that you know you cannot beat is not brave but stupid.

he could beat both Sylvanas and Garrosh, but he did not by cowardice

Jaina only became a threat to the Horde AFTER her city was bombed.

did i said Jaina anywhere? i said theramore

Again, you just pick whatever detail you like and dismiss everything around it.

and where is the detail you dismissed that i didn't say shit about jaina, and just theramore, and how it acted as alliance foothold in Kalindor sending resources and reiforcements in the alliance campaign to attack the horde in the barrens and in durotar

Considering your argumentation is baiscally "lalala Baine is a coward lalala" this is an amusing line.

considering he indeed is a coward, who didn't act by fear, and people are pretending the apst didn't happen ibecause onee vent in bfa who is questionable at best, indeed is amusing

The false information was only that they were preparing an attack. The threat of training soldiers remains. Baine sanctioned the attack afterwards. No matter what you say about him, he is the authority and his word counts.

therefore, the false information said taurujo was a threat