What's the exact reason why WW monks are not high on DPS meters

[epigramx]

It's at least Blizzard's official intent that all DPS specs should be somewhat competitive (regardless of whether they have multiple DPS specs or not).
Problem being that if they intentionally nerfed some specs just because they're not "pure DPS" (the old hybrid discussion), the non-pure specs would see even less representation because the game has become more competitive and players sometimes (depending on content/difficulty/gear) can't even drag someone along who performs worse than others (even if they wanted to).

However, the main reason that "pure DPS" *still* tend to perform better than "hybrid DPS" is that they have more options/flexibility to switch to different specs or talents per encounter. If one of their DPS specs is bad (which will always be the case), they can simply switch to the one that is currently the best option for the given content. While the "hybrid DPS" specs don't have that luxury because they only have 1 option... and that option needs to be decent in all current encounters. Which is unlikely.

Yeah I mean I had complex thoughts like that but to be honest at the end of the day BLIZZARD DOES IT ON PURPOSE. The proof is the obvious common sense that if they wanted to nerf ALL THREE SPECS of mage (example) they would do it.
Since I see this trend for many years I believe it's basically "this dude only plays dps and has no other specs so he MUST not be below some other dude that has tank and healing specs too (or at least not noticeably)" and it's kinda fair to some limited extend.

[Amenethor]

Because juggling energy, combo points, and being able to hit rising sun kick and fists of fury just as they come off cd and not wait for energy and/or combo points, is very complicated over the duration of a long fight such as a raid boss, and obviously a whole bunch of people can't keep up with it.

In PVP this is much less of an issue, as you're not required to have a perfect rotation over a long time in order to win a PVP encounter.

[epigramx]

Because juggling energy, combo points, and being able to hit rising sun kick and fists of fury just as they come off cd and not wait for energy and/or combo points, is very complicated over the duration of a long fight such as a raid boss, and obviously a whole bunch of people can't keep up with it.

In PVP this is much less of an issue, as you're not required to have a perfect rotation over a long time in order to win a PVP encounter.

It has nothing to do with it. One odd moon I was playing arcane mage and it was literally 1 button and 1 extra button for a proc and an extra for a cooldown. It's pretty obvious if you play a dps-only class the chance at least one of the specs not being god-like is almost zero.

[xtramuscle]

I'm returning to shadowlands and considering a reroll to melee. I've often enjoyed ww alt since mop, and at the beginning og expansions they've always felt very strong. (setting realm best cm times, and then later selling boosts). Will this not be the case in sl? (no beta and really out of touch info wise).

The reasons behind going melee, is I hope I can raid, but if thay doesn't pan out and I'm forced into playing m+ (I want hardcore content, but have limited time to commit) I'd rather have a tank os so I can make my own groups, rather than sit in a queue for an hour as dps hoping to be picked.

With that in mind, and not enjoying warrior, I'm left with dk, paladin, dh or monk.

I love paladins, but I don't see how prot will compete in m+, they're slower in sl than they are now, avengers shield only silences the first target (outside of traits etc, I believe) so allows limited stacking on mobs, Compared to the other tanks.

I don't enjoy vengeance tanking, so really it's down to dk/monk (druids don't exist).

With either of the dk dps specs being solid, and bringing a single grip as dps, amz, or mass grip as tank, is there a reason to play a monk instead?

As I said, in the past, ww has been STRONG for the first expansion, as others have said, there spec plays the same with limited to stats as is does with more, that's why they don't scale well.

But would I be risking too much to go ww/bm os as a main in sl?

Thoughts please.

[Puri]

Currently they simply suffer from not having a single strong well scaling secondary stat.
Recommended (passive) corruption is versatility, which does absolutely nothing than the base damage increase, which means currently PVE ww monks are among the very few specs that still use direct damage corruptions like TA or IS (which have scaling issues).

You can see it very clearly in the logs, where they started the patch in the middle of the field getting slowly lower, and quickly hitting rock bottom when the corruption vendor came in June.

[Squigglyo]

What's the exact reason why WW monks are not high on DPS meters

Because the other classes have higher dps?

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

Yeah it's mostly just stat scaling. Would be nice if rising sun kick crits or fists of fury crits did something special. Also touch of karma is just ass, i get it's place in pvp but it's so annoying to use optimally and still be doing subpar damage compared to other classes in the game.

[epigramx]

Just saying don't expect the technical reason (whatever that is (stats scaling or otherwise)) to be unknown to Blizzard. Those things are done on purpose. If you roll a tank/healer/dps class the dps spec is not going to be god-like because in that case it would severely diminish the point of dps-only classes because they haven no other roles at all so they should do good dps.

[Revamp Man]

1. some abilities are bugged
2. our scaling is garbage
3. they will never buff us

[Heavens Night]

1. some abilities are bugged
2. our scaling is garbage
3. they will never buff us

I mean, the simple fact that some abilities are bugged is criminal. The disregard Blizzard have shown Monks/ WW Monks over the last few years is completely unacceptable.

They have said they are working on improving it and even fixing the bugged abilities that they are apparently very well aware of. But do we actually believe they will?

[Revamp Man]

I mean, the simple fact that some abilities are bugged is criminal. The disregard Blizzard have shown Monks/ WW Monks over the last few years is completely unacceptable.

They have said they are working on improving it and even fixing the bugged abilities that they are apparently very well aware of. But do we actually believe they will?

nah

even the discord is well aware
if you play WW its not for the numbers

[unlockedz]

duno...i would 100% go range if i were you. i've never played it but speaking from a melee perspective raid spots are tight, decent guilds are rarely recruiting but they are on the lookout for ranged more often.
not to mention almost every try hard m+ stream has 2 ranged+1 melee so it will not be a cakewalk there either.
play what you want but expect a more difficult road as melee than if you were ranged.

[VinceVega]

They are god-like for soling in the world. In my general experience about this game is that if you're into PvE do not pick a DPS that it has only one spec in its class. It comes to reason and it's logical and somewhat fair that if a class can not heal and can not tank it would do more DPS (so mages and hunters and locks good luck ever seeing them being beaten by a tank/healer's' only dps spec (in most bosses at least(I mean sure I was god-like with a cat in a few bosses but those were niche cases))).

I will never understand that mindset. If i can heal/tank/dps at the same time as a druid i would understood you. But i can't.
There is only one spec in the game that can reliable go a bit into anther role and that is Disc.

Making EVERY DPS Spec of Druid, Paladin, Monk, Priest, Warrior, DH, DK useless in comparison to the others brings you what?
It is not even, that the pure specs don't get taken.... they have a place in every piece of content. From World first guilds to LFR Raiders PvE and PvP

[epigramx]

I will never understand that mindset.

It's not a mindset but the official (unspoken) design. It's been like that consistently (to some good extend) since WotLK (or even further back) and since there must be a reason the only logical conclusion is "if mage/lock/hunter can NEVER do ANYTHING other than DPS then their dps must never be too bad on all their specs" because it does make some sense (call it unfair or whatever but the other side could also call very unfair having a multi-role class beating them).

PS To that guy that said never pick melee: absolutely wrong: rogue since it's a dps-only class will have at least one great spec and in various cases and some bosses it will be clearly the best class for the boss (also there are some nuances like warriors were on and off great at dps but guess what they have 2 specs of dps and no healing so they get to be great at dps every other patch or so).