Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Egomaniac]

I think it's important to distinguish between public and private employees in America here. Pubic employees have more protections, and there's good reason for that because (unlike the private sector) governments aren't in business to earn money, so there are all sorts of things politicians would do that would destabilize the profession if it weren't for union protections (for example, superintendents have noted in the past that they don't mind high employee turnover because it allows them to hire cheap replacements - which has long term negative effects that a current superintendent or politician won't likely be held liable for). Also, public jobs are heavily underpaid for the first few years with the expectation that you make it up later - stability is a big draw for the profession because you're there's not much upside to it.

So the net result is the public union employees tend to have more rights (that they've bargained for) than private employees.

Lol, freudian slip.

In general, yes, unions provide more protections from firing...but accusations of sexual assault on children can be considered "just cause" for firing them anyway.

[Endus]

You should search about the Outreau trial in France. Everything was based on testimonies of children and the inability of adults to "explain" themselves.

Again, I don't know why you keep insisting on standards of evidence from court trials​ when we aren't talking about legal matters to begin with.

[Specialka]

Again, I don't know why you keep insisting on standards of evidence from court trials​ when we aren't talking about legal matters to begin with.

Ok, maybe we should talk about the voice actor that was fire from Overwatch a while ago for sexual harassment (if I remember well) and in the end, there was nothing ?
Does that sound fair to you ?

[Egomaniac]

Ok, maybe we should talk about the voice actor that was fire from Overwatch a while ago for sexual harassment (if I remember well) and in the end, there was nothing ?
Does that sound fair to you ?

If you're talking about Jesse McCree... you don't remember well at all.

[Specialka]

They’re talking about the guy who voiced Kael-Thas

Ah yes, I guess that is the one, so it was the wow team. The guy was fired, was cleared because he did not do anything.

[Endus]

Ok, maybe we should talk about the voice actor that was fire from Overwatch a while ago for sexual harassment (if I remember well) and in the end, there was nothing ?
Does that sound fair to you ?

Which actor?

And probably. Employers aren't obliged to take on that kind of risk. I really don't know where the hell you're getting this shit.

Edit; Googling to find what you're on about. I'm only finding references to McCree being fired (not a VA, plenty of cause), and Jennifer Hale facing issues after attacking Blizzard on social media (so not what you're talking about, and even though I agree with Hale, it's cause to fire her.)

Edit edit; the Quinton Flynn thing? Yeah, legitimate firing: an employer won't take that risk/bad press. Being cleared means there's an opportunity to rehire, in theory, but no obligation to.

[Orange Joe]

They’re talking about the guy who voiced Kael-Thas

Even then. There wasn't nothing. He won a harassment claim against her. It didn't disprove anything she said.


Not saying if she or he is right or wrong. Just explaining more detail.

Which actor?

And probably. Employers aren't obliged to take on that kind of risk. I really don't know where the hell you're getting this shit.

Edit; Googling to find what you're on about. I'm only finding references to McCree being fired (not a VA, plenty of cause), and Jennifer Hale facing issues after attacking Blizzard on social media (so not what you're talking about, and even though I agree with Hale, it's cause to fire her.)

See above.

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Ah yes, I guess that is the one, so it was the wow team. The guy was fired, was cleared because he did not do anything.

False. He was a voice actor that was already paid and did his job. He no longer worked for blizzard.

[Endus]

Even then. There wasn't nothing. He won a harassment claim against her. It didn't disprove anything she said.


Not saying if she or he right or wrong. Just explaining more detail.




See above.

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False. He was a voice actor that was already paid and did his job. He no longer worked for blizzard.

As I edited in. Even if he were on staff, it's a legitimate firing, with cause. Being cleared at trial MIGHT provide grounds to rehire, but can easily leave questions/concerns that justify not doing so.

It's just not a counterpoint to my case, at all.

[Orange Joe]

Yes, next time, cops should ask politely if they will rebel or shoot at them.

Cause unarmed people are never shot by police right?

[Egomaniac]

Ah yes, I guess that is the one, so it was the wow team. The guy was fired, was cleared because he did not do anything.

https://digiskygames.com/news/report...nor-into-kiss/

In the video, Flynn clearly places his hand behind the cosplayer’s neck and rests it in the nape of her neck. He then pulls her face towards his for the uninvited and unexpected kiss. When asked if it felt like Flynn grabbed and pulled her in, LalaKosply replied, “yes, actually.”

The contents of the video are alarming for many reasons. Flynn was a 44-year-old adult man in the heyday of his career; LalaKosply was a 17-year-old fan and cosplayer. There is an unbalanced power dynamic at play during this video, one which the actor actively nurtures and cultivates during the brief exchange. This falls in line with previous accusations, which have claimed the actor is willing to exploit his fanbase for personal gratification.

This is just the latest story to come out of Flynn’s interactions with fans. Yesterday, a cosplayer shared a photo of Flynn licking her thigh during a Kingdom Hearts photoshoot. This was not a consensual act according to the cosplayer.

So far, six people have stepped forward to accuse Flynn of misconduct. In addition, twenty anonymous reports have been submitted to Twitter user BewareQFlynn. They have compiled these accusations, along with other information, in a public Google Drive. You can read and archive them here.

I can see why Blizzard may not want to continue a professional relationship with this human being.

[Endus]

https://digiskygames.com/news/report...nor-into-kiss/

I can see why Blizzard may not want to continue a professional relationship with this human being.

It's really pretty tellng the caliber of people they end up defending, isn't it?

[gondrin]

And now you're sealioning. Yep, bad faith posting.

But fine; https://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ne...red-educator?r

There's a case of a predatory teacher who, despite the allegations being unproven, was still fired from his position in the Ontario education system. That's literally from just a few days ago, so the College disciplinary review hasn't met yet, but it will almost certainly cancel his license to teach and his membership in the College.

Here's the OCT page on complaints and discipline; https://www.oct.ca/members/know-your...and-discipline

Specifically, scroll down to the bits where it puts the burden of avoiding consequences on the teacher to not put themseslves into a situation that could "reasonably raise concerns as to their propriety". That meetings with students should always be open-door and that a third party is present or aware of the meeting. That you're never alone with a student outside of emergency situations. Exactly like I said.

This shit isn't arcane nonsense. It's standard practice.

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There's always an investigation, officially, even if the conclusion ends up obvious. But again; if a union is protecting members behaving unethically, that union is corrupt and no longer serving its purpose as a union. The first responsibility a union has is to the profession, and only secondarily to the individual members.

Here is an article from May of this year of a middle school teacher that is in an area around me. This man was busted for soliciting a prostitute at the end of April. Biggest thing was he was placed on leave and told he was not allowed onto any school premises. However, he was not fired outright as they do not do that before an investigation in most US jurisdictions.

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/cr...4-d2c26f86e9f4

They may fire people before an investigation is up in Canada, however, outside of massive public outrage or evidence that is released that substantial publicly, most US jurisdictions will not outright fire someone until an investigation is finished. Person is suspended with or without pay and then fired after the investigation.

[Endus]

Here is an article from May of this year of a middle school teacher that is in an area around me. This man was busted for soliciting a prostitute at the end of April. Biggest thing was he was placed on leave and told he was not allowed onto any school premises. However, he was not fired outright as they do not do that before an investigation in most US jurisdictions.

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/cr...4-d2c26f86e9f4

They may fire people before an investigation is up in Canada, however, outside of massive public outrage or evidence that is released that substantial publicly, most US jurisdictions will not outright fire someone until an investigation is finished. Person is suspended with or without pay and then fired after the investigation.

I mean, that's not a case where any students are put at risk. I never argued you should be fired for all misconduct.

[Egomaniac]

It's really pretty tellng the caliber of people they end up defending, isn't it?

And it's just going to continue.

They'll be back with another example of an "innocent man" that "didn't do anything" but still got fired.

[Endus]

And it's just going to continue.

They'll be back with another example of an "innocent man" that "didn't do anything" but still got fired.

I mean, it's always that way. They show off the best example they can think of, and it's always "this guy? The guy with multiple complaints from multiple independent sources? This is the worst example you can find to condemn this?"

You'd think if it were a real problem, they'd have actual examples of actual abuse. But no, it's always this kind of shit.

[Coniferous]

I mean, it's always that way. They show off the best example they can think of, and it's always "this guy? The guy with multiple complaints from multiple independent sources? This is the worst example you can find to condemn this?"

You'd think if it were a real problem, they'd have actual examples of actual abuse. But no, it's always this kind of shit.

I would suspect it’s because the standard isn’t as tight as you want it to be, so it’s hard to find examples of a guy who got fired on limited evidence.

[Endus]

I would suspect it’s because the standard isn’t as tight as you want it to be, so it’s hard to find examples of a guy who got fired on limited evidence.

Y'know, if you're failing to find cases that back up your claims, maybe it's time to realize that you don't really have an argument.

[Orange Joe]

I would suspect it’s because the standard isn’t as tight as you want it to be, so it’s hard to find examples of a guy who got fired on limited evidence.

What a glorious self own....

[Egomaniac]

I would suspect it’s because the standard isn’t as tight as you want it to be, so it’s hard to find examples of a guy who got fired on limited evidence.

"We can't prove this is a real problem...but that's only because there isn't really any evidence" is certainly a take.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Standard operating procedure;

This is one of the smarter videos I've watched in awhile, holy crap it's so true. And it's not just true for politics. General forum of MMOC is filled with this posturing shit of constantly attacking and never offering defense.



But anyway, cops continue to shoot minorities. They cite "reaching for a weapon" as an excuse when sometimes they were literally just putting their hands over their head. It's been clear as crystal glass that cops in the US are overly jumpy.

They get to murder some minority, the press gets all over it, the police department suspends the officer (with pay) for like a month. The officer often doesn't even go to trial, and when he does it's a quick "not guilty". Cop is reinstated after a long paid vacation. Police continue to kill minorities for dumb reasons, and the alt-right continues to make excuses for why it's justified. Mostly because they know that their white ass is never going to get shot at for putting their hands on their head.

Meanwhile, these shootings are happening all the time. Every time a cop gets away with murder, the black communities lose more and more trust in the institution that's supposed to protect them and instead see it as a force looking for an excuse to execute them.

AND THE ALT RIGHT WONDERS WHY THESE PEOPLE PROTEST.

Then a bunch of proud boys show up with guns, they start shouting at the protestors and egging them on, violence happens, protest turns into a riot, Proud Boys (or whoever tf) play the victim card and use it as an excuse to use deadlier and deadlier force at subsequent protests. This is what the alt right wants. They're escalating the stakes. They want a war. And it's all part of the fascist playbook. Paint your enemies as violent. Provoke the left and protestors into violence because they know they'll get a response. Cry the victim card, then use it as some excuse for heavy handed fascist laws.