1. #23021
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuujin View Post
    The exception to the exception to the exception applied.

    Edit: My favorite part was him saying any system that incentivizes rule by the last person standing, that is killing anyone that might dispute your claims of self defense, seems suboptimal. Vigilantism is bad.
    Like, what this decision means is that Grosskreutz shouldn't have held his fire. He should've shot Rittenhouse. He had far more cause than Rittenhouse did, as Rittenhouse had actually shot and killed someone already. And then Huber might still be alive and he might not have lost his bicep.

    Is that "better"? Is the ideal society one where you pre-emptively shoot threats "just in case"? Seems like it shouldn't be.

    To be clear; I'm not myself suggesting Grosskreutz should've just unloaded on Rittenhouse. Or that Rittenhouse deserved that. I'm pointing out that's the corollary of this legal decision. That's why I disagree with the decision.


  2. #23022
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Like, what this decision means is that Grosskreutz shouldn't have held his fire. He should've shot Rittenhouse. He had far more cause than Rittenhouse did, as Rittenhouse had actually shot and killed someone already. And then Huber might still be alive and he might not have lost his bicep.

    Is that "better"? Is the ideal society one where you pre-emptively shoot threats "just in case"? Seems like it shouldn't be.

    To be clear; I'm not myself suggesting Grosskreutz should've just unloaded on Rittenhouse. Or that Rittenhouse deserved that. I'm pointing out that's the corollary of this legal decision. That's why I disagree with the decision.
    Which is an argument the "reviewer" presents. A reasonable person could also believe that Grosskreutz felt his life was in danger because he believed Kyle was an active shooter, and he just witnessed him fire his weapon at two different people.

  3. #23023
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Legal Eagle pretty much discrediting 95% of the screeching on both sides in two videos, got to love it lol.
    As a Layman, I super appriciate his knowledge of stuff like this and ability to parse all these different laws into normal-person speak, and it really clarifies a lot of questions I had about the laws that were being applied to the case and the grounds for the appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Like, what this decision means is that Grosskreutz shouldn't have held his fire. He should've shot Rittenhouse. He had far more cause than Rittenhouse did, as Rittenhouse had actually shot and killed someone already. And then Huber might still be alive and he might not have lost his bicep.

    Is that "better"? Is the ideal society one where you pre-emptively shoot threats "just in case"? Seems like it shouldn't be.

    To be clear; I'm not myself suggesting Grosskreutz should've just unloaded on Rittenhouse. Or that Rittenhouse deserved that. I'm pointing out that's the corollary of this legal decision. That's why I disagree with the decision.
    Yeah, pretty much what the lot of us where saying for the last few pages: That the same law that let Rittenhouse off scott free would have allowed -anyone else- who took him down with lethal force after the first shooting get off scot free as well. As Yuujin - and the video - points out, whoever's the last man standing gets to be legally right. Which kinda mirrors how the Trayvon Martin case panned out.
    Last edited by Xyonai; 2021-11-26 at 03:55 AM.

  4. #23024
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Legal Eagle pretty much discrediting 95% of the screeching on both sides in two videos, got to love it lol.
    Still here desperately trying to let us all know you're so super-cool and above it all? Find a better place to get your validation. This is just sad.
    Last edited by s_bushido; 2021-11-26 at 05:56 AM.

  5. #23025
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    The jury instructions were very complicated and a lot of the prosecutions case rested on flimsy video evidence they claim showed provocation. I was expecting two days or more.
    The video evidence showed that Kyle pointed his gun at the people he shot before they ever made an aggressive move towards him. So yeah.

    I'd say right wingers should know what pointing your gun at someone means, but I'm quickly finding that gun safety isn't really common knowledge among the right. Just guns. It's no wonder accidental discharges lead to death so much in the US. With so many guns out there just laying around and certain "people" waving them around without even knowing basic gun safety.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
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  6. #23026
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    The video evidence showed that Kyle pointed his gun at the people he shot before they ever made an aggressive move towards him. So yeah.

    I'd say right wingers should know what pointing your gun at someone means, but I'm quickly finding that gun safety isn't really common knowledge among the right. Just guns. It's no wonder accidental discharges lead to death so much in the US. With so many guns out there just laying around and certain "people" waving them around without even knowing basic gun safety.
    The height of this was the whole debacle with Alec Baldwin.

    Right wingers stormed in to condemn liberal Baldwin with their supposed "superior knowledge" of gun safety, only to find that no, they didn't actually know anything about gun safety procedures on movie sets, and that Baldwin did not act in any way out of the ordinary in his role as an actor holding a gun when the shooting occurred.

    You could probably count the number of accidental shootings in the past decade on film sets on one or two hands; meanwhile, hundreds of people die every year from accidental firearm discharges in the US; guns that supposedly belong to or are being handled by "responsible gun owners."
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2021-11-26 at 05:57 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #23027
    I mean, I think the Alec Baldwin thing was purely, naked self-serving "owning" of an actor who is famously liberal and did a satirical impression of their God-president for four years on the national lampoon of record.

    Not an ignorance of how guns on a movie set work. No one blamed the actor who shot Brandon Lee for killing him - they blamed the prop guy. Here, they simply wanted to blame Baldwin.

  8. #23028
    Pandaren Monk Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I mean, I think the Alec Baldwin thing was purely, naked self-serving "owning" of an actor who is famously liberal and did a satirical impression of their God-president for four years on the national lampoon of record.

    Not an ignorance of how guns on a movie set work. No one blamed the actor who shot Brandon Lee for killing him - they blamed the prop guy. Here, they simply wanted to blame Baldwin.
    That must have homething to do with Baldwin being the director of the film and therefore being responsible for everything that happens on site and he didnt bother to hire a gun specialist for the film. But nice tribal thinking
    Lives matter

  9. #23029
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    That must have homething to do with Baldwin being the director of the film and therefore being responsible for everything that happens on site and he didnt bother to hire a gun specialist for the film. But nice tribal thinking
    You can't even get what position Baldwin had right, why would anyone seriously consider what you had to say on the topic?

    He is/was an Executive Producer, which means basically nothing in terms of his own responsibilities. Just that he gets better credits and, likely, more money from the movie.

  10. #23030
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    That must have homething to do with Baldwin being the director of the film and therefore being responsible for everything that happens on site and he didnt bother to hire a gun specialist for the film. But nice tribal thinking
    This is two lies.

    First, almost all those people were trying to blame him as the shooter.

    Secondly, they hired a firearms expert.

    Third... look at that, there were more than two. He was also a producer, not the director. I'll just chalk that one up as a mistake whilst trying to make the previous two lies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  11. #23031
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Like, what this decision means is that Grosskreutz shouldn't have held his fire. He should've shot Rittenhouse. He had far more cause than Rittenhouse did, as Rittenhouse had actually shot and killed someone already. And then Huber might still be alive and he might not have lost his bicep.

    Is that "better"? Is the ideal society one where you pre-emptively shoot threats "just in case"? Seems like it shouldn't be.
    Its better then one where you wait to be killed just in case. And yes Grosskreutz totally would get off free too, as far i know he didnt get any charges himself for any of that. The other people that attacked him first when hes running away probably not. Grosskreutz even spoke to him minutes earlier and when kyle said im going to the police, he let him go. Realisticly it should have been the end of it for him, going back was a mistake, but its not one a reasonable person wouldnt make. So if he shot first, id say he was fine too. Both case of vigilantism. Attacking someone running away towards police is vigilantism too. The idea anyone there was some kind of hero is stupid to begin with. Just a bunch of people that tried to do shit they shouldnt have, kyle included.

  12. #23032
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    But nice tribal thinking
    oh please. Anyone with two functional brain cells saw that the attacks on Baldwin were partisan because of his mockery of their orange diety. Why even pretend otherwise? It's stupid.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  13. #23033
    Pandaren Monk Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    almost all those people were trying to blame him as the shooter.
    Agreeing with the rest of your criticism, I must say that according to my own observation, almost all those people were ironising over the situation because of Baldwin being a huge anti-gunist. It had nothing to do with him cosplaying Trump or being liberal. And of course no sane person would blame him seriously
    Lives matter

  14. #23034
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    Agreeing with the rest of your criticism, I must say that according to my own observation, almost all those people were ironising over the situation because of Baldwin being a huge anti-gunist. It had nothing to do with him cosplaying Trump or being liberal. And of course no sane person would blame him seriously
    You literally got caught lying, and now just tried to justify your lie.

    Sorry, bro... not happening.

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...inematographer
    Last edited by Machismo; 2021-11-26 at 12:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  15. #23035
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    Agreeing with the rest of your criticism, I must say that according to my own observation, almost all those people were ironising over the situation because of Baldwin being a huge anti-gunist. It had nothing to do with him cosplaying Trump or being liberal. And of course no sane person would blame him seriously
    Yeah, nobody knows Baldwin as an “anti-gunist”. Everyone who jumped on this know him for his Trump impression they hated.

  16. #23036
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    I must say that according to my own observation, almost all those people were ironising over the situation because of Baldwin being a huge anti-gunist.
    Then your observations are incredibly flawed. Even if he is "anti-gunist," as you put it, being against guns and using one for a movie are hugely different things.

    It had nothing to do with him cosplaying Trump or being liberal.
    It 100% did, I assure you.

    And of course no sane person would blame him seriously
    Nobody ever accused the right win gun nuts of being sane.

  17. #23037
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    It had nothing to do with him cosplaying Trump or being liberal.
    Anytime you want to stop lying would be great.

    https://www.blackenterprise.com/cand...cism-of-trump/
    https://www.wptv.com/news/political/...s-people-shirt
    https://www.the-sun.com/entertainmen...-alec-baldwin/

    I can find more if you'd like.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  18. #23038
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    The video evidence showed that Kyle pointed his gun at the people he shot before they ever made an aggressive move towards him. So yeah.

    I'd say right wingers should know what pointing your gun at someone means, but I'm quickly finding that gun safety isn't really common knowledge among the right. Just guns. It's no wonder accidental discharges lead to death so much in the US. With so many guns out there just laying around and certain "people" waving them around without even knowing basic gun safety.
    It was the weakness of that video evidence to show he was aiming his gun at people prior to them attacking that made it not murder.

    If you want a real example of poor gun safety, watch the prosecutor point the gun at the jury with finger on the trigger.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Nothing threatening about people like this. Took place just the other day.
    https://www.blackenterprise.com/blac...house-protest/


    Just a black father and 16 year old daughter exercising their constitutional rights. Sad to see people like yourself want to tear up the constitution.
    They better watch out if a protest develops, or half the thread will say they’re provoking attacks on themselves and deny them self defense.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  19. #23039
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    It was the weakness of that video evidence to show he was aiming his gun at people prior to them attacking that made it not murder.

    If you want a real example of poor gun safety, watch the prosecutor point the gun at the jury with finger on the trigger.

    - - - Updated - - -


    They better watch out if a protest develops, or half the thread will say they’re provoking attacks on themselves and deny them self defense.
    Nah, we’ve seen how this works. They get to shoot three people each.

  20. #23040
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    They better watch out if a protest develops, or half the thread will say they’re provoking attacks on themselves and deny them self defense.
    Are they pointing their weapons at people? Because that's what people were arguing was provocation.


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