Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Edge-]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-drowns...posts_card_hed

Cops attempt to pull man over for minor traffic violation.

He flees.

Swims into the water.

Cops watch as he drowns, claiming he's faking struggling and wants to pull them down underwater as well.

Over a minor traffic violation.

[Endus]

I never said it would be instant, but I do have a dim view of the average human, no matter their country. However, it does not take a significant number of criminals to wreak havoc. Most people may be sheep (on sooooo many levels...), but it only takes one wolf to decimate an entire flock over time.

We don't even really have to hypothesize. Look at the rest of the developed world. Pretty much without exception, they;

1> Have less police and police funding per capita than the USA,
2> Have lower prison populations per capita than the USA, and
3> Have lower crime rates than the USA.

Do those other countries still have crime, and organized crime? Sure. Italy in particular is famously the origin of the Mafia. Is it as big a problem as the USA? Nooope.

Because the USA has an entire culture based on creating an internal war on crime, and that necessitates a strong crime industry to be attacked. The entire system is meant to prop that up, not end it. America's high levels of crime and high prison populations are a desired outcome of policy, not something you're trying to tamp out. It's been created out of nothing, because a lot of wealthy people can make a lot of money off A> supplying police with weapons for the "fight against crime", and B> running for-profit prisons that use prisoners as effectively slave labour.

You could just, like, stop it. You're literally creating these problems for yourselves, because profits for shareholders are more important to policymakers than the lives of innocent black people in America. Which shouldn't be surprising, since that's been the status quo for longer than you've been America.

The stuff you're talking about is myth. It isn't reality.

[Kellhound]

In short; you believe humans have an inclination towards local warlordism and seem to be advocating that is a preferable state of affairs given all of your policy arguments.



Yeah yeah, warrior culture and all that. It's as much a social construct as gender and, fortunately, would be covered under Medicare for All.



This is a strawman. No one is saying "no law enforcement".



Nah. We've just decided to cut the bullshit and call out a rigged game for what it is.

- - - Updated - - -



Again, this is not a reflection of reality; this is a reflection of your beliefs which as demonstrated can and are inculcated and maintained by the training and culture of American law enforcement and the armed forces.

In short; they're being called out on their toxicity. It's a menace to national security and national economic health because it just leads to senseless forever wars of sending poor Black men and women to die fighting even poorer foreign people, and a culture of violence and intimidation by what are supposed to be approachable public servants to protect the peace and fix disputes which just ends up creating more disorder, more poverty, and more crime.

And let's not even get started on the fact that for all intents and purposes America has yet to find a way to sustain itself economically without exploiting an enslaved population for free labor.

You are either okay with that and by extension complicit in it, or see it as the social cancer it is.

So believing in representative democracy is the same as supporting warlords...

You have so engorged yourself with the kool-aid of the idea of human greatness you think the reality of the human condition that has existed longer than recorded history can be solved by just having a big hugfest. Basically, you are incapable of having a logical discussion because you are incapable of accepting that evil will ALWAYS exist and a segment of the population will ALWAYS attempt to gain power. Until such time as you become educated enough to understand how humans actually are instead of the fantasy of how you want them to be, responding to you further is pointless.

[Crissi]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-drowns...posts_card_hed

Cops attempt to pull man over for minor traffic violation.

He flees.

Swims into the water.

Cops watch as he drowns, claiming he's faking struggling and wants to pull them down underwater as well.

Over a minor traffic violation.

while making fun is shitty and sounds like the cops are just assholes, unless you are specifically trained in how to rescue a drowning person, its extremely risky to save a drowning person as often enough you die with them.

Could have at least attempted assistance form the shore like tossing a branch or something though...

[Captain N]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-drowns...posts_card_hed

Cops attempt to pull man over for minor traffic violation.

He flees.

Swims into the water.

Cops watch as he drowns, claiming he's faking struggling and wants to pull them down underwater as well.

Over a minor traffic violation.

A police officer that can't swim? Seriously? I drive train and that's one of the requirements for the job...in the rare case a locomotive enters a washed out stretch of rail.

Sounds like more poor excuses from another terrible police force.

[Edge-]

Could have at least attempted assistance form the shore like tossing a branch or something though...

Very much this. He was apparently around 10 feet out, and I imagine they have some rope or could have tried to find a branch or something. Agreed that they shouldn't have gone in after him if they weren't trained for water rescue and didn't have anything like a life vest to help provide safety, but the fact that they thought he was faking it to pull them under for a minor traffic violation is absolutely appalling to me. Do cops really view every person with a minor infraction of the law as out to kill them?


https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/wit...-the-wrong-way

Also, local police aggressively arrested a black Amazon delivery driver for...parking the wrong way on a street while making deliveries. A "crime" that at most warrants a warning, or a citation, but ended in the driver being held face down in the grass while handcuffed. Neighbors tried to dissuade the cop, confirming that the man was a delivery driver who had just made a delivery and was as polite as can be.

Cops don't care. Because these cops aren't there for the community, apparently. If they were, they might have listened.

- - - Updated - - -

A police officer that can't swim? Seriously? I drive train and that's one of the requirements for the job...in the rare case a locomotive enters a washed out stretch of rail.

Sounds like more poor excuses from another terrible police force.

Crissi is right on this - if the cops weren't trained for water rescue, trying to save someone who is drowning puts yourself at considerable risk as well (especially if they didn't take off all their gear first...they'd sink like a rock).

But at the same time, there were alternatives to help the man (toss him a rope so they can pull him in, find a large branch to toss that he can grab ahold of to keep his head above water etc.), but to me it was their behavior while he was struggling that sets me the fuck off.

[Crissi]

oh yeah, Im very much against cops at the moment. Just saying, dont physically go in to save drowning people if you dont have prep or water rescue training unless you're prepared to drown yourself

[Kellhound]

We don't even really have to hypothesize. Look at the rest of the developed world. Pretty much without exception, they;

1> Have less police and police funding per capita than the USA,
2> Have lower prison populations per capita than the USA, and
3> Have lower crime rates than the USA.

Do those other countries still have crime, and organized crime? Sure. Italy in particular is famously the origin of the Mafia. Is it as big a problem as the USA? Nooope.

Because the USA has an entire culture based on creating an internal war on crime, and that necessitates a strong crime industry to be attacked. The entire system is meant to prop that up, not end it. America's high levels of crime and high prison populations are a desired outcome of policy, not something you're trying to tamp out. It's been created out of nothing, because a lot of wealthy people can make a lot of money off A> supplying police with weapons for the "fight against crime", and B> running for-profit prisons that use prisoners as effectively slave labour.

You could just, like, stop it. You're literally creating these problems for yourselves, because profits for shareholders are more important to policymakers than the lives of innocent black people in America. Which shouldn't be surprising, since that's been the status quo for longer than you've been America.

The stuff you're talking about is myth. It isn't reality.

Less is significantly different than "abolish the police!".
Partial list of countries with more police per capita than the US: Italy, France, Germany, Austria, Singapore, Spain, the Baltics, Belgium, Scotland.

[Endus]

Less is significantly different than "abolish the police!".

Do we really have to repeat why this is deliberately malicious propaganda every 15 posts or so?

"Defund" is not a synonym for "Abolish". It would help if you took 2 minutes to figure out what the movement was about before deciding to express an opinion.

Again, this is right up there with "Black lives matter? Why not say all lives matter?" for deliberately misconstruing the point.

[Elegiac]

Less is significantly different than "abolish the police!".
Partial list of countries with more police per capita than the US: Italy, France, Germany, Austria, Singapore, Spain, the Baltics, Belgium, Scotland.

If they meant "abolish" they'd say "abolish"; weren't you lot complaining about "Abolish ICE" for this exact reason?

[Captain N]

Crissi is right on this - if the cops weren't trained for water rescue, trying to save someone who is drowning puts yourself at considerable risk as well (especially if they didn't take off all their gear first...they'd sink like a rock).

But at the same time, there were alternatives to help the man (toss him a rope so they can pull him in, find a large branch to toss that he can grab ahold of to keep his head above water etc.), but to me it was their behavior while he was struggling that sets me the fuck off.

I don't doubt that that if they're not properly trained that they should not do it. I was more shocked at a job that requires a physical abilities test does not include swimming.

[Kellhound]

Do we really have to repeat why this is deliberately malicious propaganda every 15 posts or so?

"Defund" is not a synonym for "Abolish". It would help if you took 2 minutes to figure out what the movement was about before deciding to express an opinion.

Again, this is right up there with "Black lives matter? Why not say all lives matter?" for deliberately misconstruing the point.

I have seen just about as many calls to abolish as to reduce in size. There is also no mention of what level of policing the protesters want. 3/4? 1/2? 1/4? Token number of polite greeters?

Plus, seeing as how many European countries have more police per capita than the US, the number of police does not appear to be the determiner of the amount of crime.

[Cinnamilk]

I don't doubt that that if they're not properly trained that they should not do it. I was more shocked at a job that requires a physical abilities test does not include swimming.

Swimming by yourself and swimming with a panicked drowning guy pushing you under so he can get some air are two different scenarios.

[Captain N]

Swimming by yourself and swimming with a panicked drowning guy pushing you under so he can get some air are two different scenarios.

The article states the officer could not swim.

One of those officers could not swim, Lewis told ABC News, and the second officer was taking off his gear to get in, but the first Winchester officer stopped him.

[Crissi]

The article states the officer could not swim.

One of those officers could not swim, Lewis told ABC News, and the second officer was taking off his gear to get in, but the first Winchester officer stopped him.

Well that's beyond dumb. All first responders should at the very least know how to swim.

[Cinnamilk]

The article states the officer could not swim.

One of those officers could not swim, Lewis told ABC News, and the second officer was taking off his gear to get in, but the first Winchester officer stopped him.

Oh yikes. I don't have really much to add to this, Crissi already covered my thoughts.

[Egomaniac]

Well that's beyond dumb. All first responders should at the very least know how to swim.

I'm more interested in why the Winchester officer stopped the guy that was going to go in and help.

[Elegiac]

This happened a few days ago, but the statue of Winston Churchill in Parliament Square was defaced with graffiti, coming amidst a wave of petitions to remove statues of controversial figures throughout both the UK and the US.

Personally? I'd be for it. Remove the statue and replace it with an allegorical memorial to the victims of the Bengal Famine of '43. Maybe include the others, as well (because fuck the British Raj).

[Trassk]

https://twitter.com/samanthamarika1/...07379721908227

As she said, people haven't been able to arrange funerals for their own family members who died to covid, and yet george flyod's funeral was this grand open service with politicans there and broadcast to the world.
They used his death and arranged his funeral for a political stunt, they couldn't give two shits about george flyod.

[Elegiac]

https://twitter.com/samanthamarika1/...07379721908227

As she said, people haven't been able to arrange funerals for their own family members who died to covid, and yet george flyod's funeral was this grand open service with politicans there and broadcast to the world.
They used his death and arranged his funeral for a political stunt, they couldn't give two shits about george flyod.

You mean exactly like you're doing here with COVID victims?

It's whataboutism, plain and simple. Here's hoping they pull the Union Jack off the Australian flag, too!