1. #6821
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Grow up and get some balls.
    Says the guy who has a pair of blue ones slapping against his chin.

    You're just justify use of force where none is necessary. You keep making up story after story as to why the cops were giving the orders they were giving, and behaving the way they were behaving, but it is all speculation to justify their actions.

    Pretty sad how quickly you're willing to give away your right to peacefully assemble/get pulled over by a police officer and not get shot but not at all too shocking.
    [Infraction]
    Last edited by Rozz; 2020-06-14 at 07:39 PM. Reason: Minor Trolling

  2. #6822
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Eh, I'd rather get on with my life. I agree the killing of Floyd was bad. The Atlanta killing was borderline - but to me the real issue is, why do we have some many fucked up people who don't know how to interact with police? Seriously, you pass out drunk in your car, get arrested, steal the cop's tazer and start shooting it at him? That's fucking crazy. I don't get it. That's something you do if you have a death wish, or else you're just clueless.
    People get killed by the police for complying with the police. That is the real issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  3. #6823
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Eh, I'd rather get on with my life. I agree the killing of Floyd was bad. The Atlanta killing was borderline - but to me the real issue is, why do we have some many fucked up people who don't know how to interact with police? Seriously, you pass out drunk in your car, get arrested, steal the cop's tazer and start shooting it at him? That's fucking crazy. I don't get it. That's something you do if you have a death wish, or else you're just clueless.
    I find it's more telling that people have to learn how to interact with police and not that the police need to do better at interacting with people.

    Why shouldn't we hold police to a higher standard? They shot a man who was running away, he had taken a non-lethal weapon from the officer. Was he wrong for resisting arrest? Yes, no one is saying he shouldn't be arrested. But resisting arrest is also not a crime punishable by death unless the officer's life was in danger.

    Even the absolute worst case scenario wouldn't justify shooting that man as he was running away. That being if he managed to hit the cop with the taser, run back to steal his gun, then use the gun to kill him. Except that wouldn't happen since there was a second fully armed officer there with both a taser and a firearm.

    People wouldn't have to learn how to interact with police if the police were competent.

    Also like many above me have said, there are people who comply and still get killed or injured.
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  4. #6824
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Eh, I'd rather get on with my life. I agree the killing of Floyd was bad. The Atlanta killing was borderline - but to me the real issue is, why do we have some many fucked up people who don't know how to interact with police? Seriously, you pass out drunk in your car, get arrested, steal the cop's tazer and start shooting it at him? That's fucking crazy. I don't get it. That's something you do if you have a death wish, or else you're just clueless.
    Isn't that telling of the problem, though? That people need to know how to interact with police, rather than police knowing how to deal with people? I mean, obviously there are extreme examples - if you're trying to kill a police officer, we shouldn't expect the police to just fall over and take it. But these protests aren't about the extremes. They're about a guy kneeling on a guy's neck for 8 minutes while he's already been made harmless, and they're about this kind of behavior being normal. They're about the fact that every person in America has to know how to not spook a cop so that they don't get shot.

    Just take a minute and think about that. You have to treat a police officer - the person trained to protect you and your community, someone you should trust the most - like a rabid bulldog that could flip at any wrong move. How have we normalized this?

  5. #6825
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Ok, where’s the example of that? I give you Philando Castile, but that’s the only one I can think of.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver

  6. #6826
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Ok, where’s the example of that? I give you Philando Castile, but that’s the only one I can think of.
    Daniel Shaver - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...apply-n1028981 The cop responsible for his death not only walked, he was rehired to receive a pension, and now gets $30k a year instead of a prison sentence.

    And that's if we're talking strict, did exactly as the officer said. Then there are all of the people injured or killed for not complying with police officer's unlawful orders.
    Last edited by Not A Cat; 2020-06-14 at 07:29 PM.
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  7. #6827
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Ok, where’s the example of that? I give you Philando Castile, but that’s the only one I can think of.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoo...Charles_Kinsey
    https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justi...ing/index.html
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoo..._Daniel_Shaver

  8. #6828
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    How about killing unarmed people who are asleep in their bed at night?

    https://www.npr.org/2020/05/13/85570...=1592163046961
    Yeah, then there are those like Breonna Taylor that didn't even get a chance to comply before being shot and killed. Her murderers also aren't charged, hopefully they will be, but it's not looking promising.
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  9. #6829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not A Cat View Post
    Yeah, then there are those like Breonna Taylor that didn't even get a chance to comply before being shot and killed. Her murderers also aren't charged, hopefully they will be, but it's not looking promising.
    Tamir Rice would be another case for not even getting a chance at complying.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  10. #6830
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    How about killing unarmed people who are asleep in their bed at night?

    https://www.npr.org/2020/05/13/85570...=1592163046961
    First, I am against no-knock raids and I believe that they should go deeply through what lead them to do the raid because if anything was falsified then they should be charged with a crime and go to jail.

    But, to make your statement ignoring that it happened in a gun fight between the cops and her boyfriend (Who did hit one of the cops) seems like a stretch.

    It is horrible that she died. If they did anything wrong with the process or identifying themselves, then hold them accountable. But stating the truth "killing an unarmed person asleep in their bed" and leaving out "while in a gun fight with the other person in their bed" twists what happened.

  11. #6831
    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    First, I am against no-knock raids and I believe that they should go deeply through what lead them to do the raid because if anything was falsified then they should be charged with a crime and go to jail.

    But, to make your statement ignoring that it happened in a gun fight between the cops and her boyfriend (Who did hit one of the cops) seems like a stretch.

    It is horrible that she died. If they did anything wrong with the process or identifying themselves, then hold them accountable. But stating the truth "killing an unarmed person asleep in their bed" and leaving out "while in a gun fight with the other person in their bed" twists what happened.
    The problem is the cops fired first, they saw her boyfriend holding a gun and started shooting. So there still wasn't a chance to comply as the cops started the firefight almost immediately after seeing them. Not for nothing, they also weren't in uniform, didn't identify themselves, and bust through the door in the middle of the night.
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  13. #6833
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    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    First, I am against no-knock raids and I believe that they should go deeply through what lead them to do the raid because if anything was falsified then they should be charged with a crime and go to jail.

    But, to make your statement ignoring that it happened in a gun fight between the cops and her boyfriend (Who did hit one of the cops) seems like a stretch.

    It is horrible that she died. If they did anything wrong with the process or identifying themselves, then hold them accountable. But stating the truth "killing an unarmed person asleep in their bed" and leaving out "while in a gun fight with the other person in their bed" twists what happened.
    There's an interview on youtube with the mother of the deceased. They had been questioning her about reasons for why the police could have been there before telling her that her daughter was dead.

    They were trying to find reasons for why the police may have been right to go in before even telling her that her daughter was killed.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  14. #6834
    Stacey Abrams: 'False' to say police departments either need to be defunded or reformed

    “We are being drawn into a false choice idea,” Abrams said when asked about choosing between reforming police departments or defunding them.
    “The reality is we need two things,” she said.

    “We’ll use different language to describe it, but fundamentally, we must have reformation and transformation,” she added later.

    ---------

    Not surprising on Abrams' careful language.

  15. #6835
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Ok, where’s the example of that? I give you Philando Castile, but that’s the only one I can think of.
    People shared the link but it's worth watching what happened. They give weird, confusing instructions - can't even clearly communicate with their fellow officers - and shoot the clearly compliant victim for trying to obey in a slightly incorrect way.

    Last edited by Zaktar; 2020-06-14 at 08:24 PM.

  16. #6836
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not A Cat View Post
    The problem is the cops fired first, they saw her boyfriend holding a gun and started shooting. So there still wasn't a chance to comply as the cops started the firefight almost immediately after seeing them. Not for nothing, they also weren't in uniform, didn't identify themselves, and bust through the door in the middle of the night.
    In any reasonable justice system, cops not in uniform would never be executing a warrant, ever, under any circumstances. They would never enter a location without announcing themselves; a "no-knock" warrant should mean you ram down the door and shout your announcement into the building, and then enter. Not following those rules, and the entry should be treated as a normal B&E, the homeowner should be entirely and lawfully entitled to respond to that B&E with force, and any violence used by the officers should be treated as criminal, even if they're returning fire to a homeowner who fired first.

    And I really don't see anything about that position that is remotely fringe or extreme. It's common fucking sense. Otherwise, you're arguing that cops get to slaughter innocent civilians for the "crime" of not having psychic foreknowledge.


  17. #6837
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Listen to what's actually being said by the cops - they're telling people to stay on the right side of the road. This is for the safety of everyone. The guy is going out of his way to be confrontational and cross the line and go to the left side while walking about 6 inches behind the cop. And he doesn't stop, say "Excuse me", whatever - he tries to push his way by on the wrong side of the road.

    It sounds like your issue here is that the cops shouldn't be responsible for regulating protests - people should just be able to go wherever they want, close down roads, blockade stores, etc. Because that's all they were doing - attempting to keep the protesters on one side of the street.

    And how many hundreds of cops are out there regulating protests, and this is one of the worst things they can find - cops tackling a guy who breaks the rules? Come on. This is nothing. Grow up and get some balls.
    [Infraction]
    I suggest you take some time and read this thread. Should be enough to just skim over it and look at the posted links.
    Also... Others already were way too nice and linked you enough cases.
    You CAN get shot by police even when complying. So maybe think once more.
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  18. #6838
    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    First, I am against no-knock raids and I believe that they should go deeply through what lead them to do the raid because if anything was falsified then they should be charged with a crime and go to jail.

    But, to make your statement ignoring that it happened in a gun fight between the cops and her boyfriend (Who did hit one of the cops) seems like a stretch.

    It is horrible that she died. If they did anything wrong with the process or identifying themselves, then hold them accountable. But stating the truth "killing an unarmed person asleep in their bed" and leaving out "while in a gun fight with the other person in their bed" twists what happened.
    Uh, it wasn't a gun fight. They broke the door down without announcing themselves (cops often "meet the threshold" of what's required by saying they're police in a low voice while battering the door down, so no reasonable person can hear them unless they're literally on the other side of the door. The boyfriend, thinking robbers had broken into the house, fired his legally owned and carried gun at the officers once, and then they put 28 bullets in Taylor, with no shots seemingly hitting him, and instead hit Taylor.

    Then they arrested him for assaulting a police officer, and, importantly, the charge was so flimsy it had to be dropped, BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HE WAS DEFENDING HIS HOME LEGALLY.

  19. #6839
    We were talking about police shootings of co-operative people. Justine Damond is one I've had a bit of an eye on.

    In regards to this Atlanta shooting, the most egregious part of it to me is that the police feel the need to handcuff the guy. I would personally expect if you've just blown over the limit (and you've not been drinking for what must be around an hour, by that point) you'd have the sense to realize that the best possible outcome is to present as little trouble as possible, admit you've done the wrong thing, etcetc. This might just be a cultural thing and it's not fair to compare rural Australia to urban America so forgive me if my perspective isn't entirely accurate.
    Last edited by LilSaihah; 2020-06-14 at 10:30 PM.
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  20. #6840
    Quote Originally Posted by Not A Cat View Post
    I find it's more telling that people have to learn how to interact with police and not that the police need to do better at interacting with people.

    Why shouldn't we hold police to a higher standard? They shot a man who was running away, he had taken a non-lethal weapon from the officer. Was he wrong for resisting arrest? Yes, no one is saying he shouldn't be arrested. But resisting arrest is also not a crime punishable by death unless the officer's life was in danger.

    Even the absolute worst case scenario wouldn't justify shooting that man as he was running away. That being if he managed to hit the cop with the taser, run back to steal his gun, then use the gun to kill him. Except that wouldn't happen since there was a second fully armed officer there with both a taser and a firearm.

    People wouldn't have to learn how to interact with police if the police were competent.

    Also like many above me have said, there are people who comply and still get killed or injured.
    Tasers aren't non-lethal, they're less-lethal.

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/po...ers-since-2000

    You're asking an officer to take a hit, that could possibly kill him.

    And no, there wasn't a second officer with taser, that's the officer that had his taser stolen. So if Brooks had successfully tasered the pursuing officer the other officer's only recourse would also have been to shoot him.

    The shooting officer had his taser and was attempting to use to subdue Brooks, either because he missed or because Brook's intoxication caused it to fail to affect him. He only drew and fired his gun when Brooks shot the taser at them.

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