Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Ripster42]

I already did. Police are not the only means of law enforcement.

The person implied that not having law enforcement wouldn't lead to the collapse of society.

Let's work out how we get there:

Your quibble is that police aren't the only form of law enforcement. The only other option given was military enforcement of the law, which both of us have now said is worse than our current system of law enforcement. So given that they said police, and the only other option is worse, which is presumably not what that commenter was going for (a worse solution than the status quo), we're left with what I said they implied: That having edit: no law enforcement (and here's the implication, neither police nor the worse option), wouldn't lead to the collapse of society.

[Egomaniac]

The person implied that not having law enforcement wouldn't lead to the collapse of society.

From what I read the person said that not having POLICE wouldn't lead to the collapse of society.

You INFERRED that a lack of police is a lack of law enforcement.

You state that military is the Only alternative to police because it was the one presented. But it is not the only alternative.

[Shadowferal]

Pfft what's to stop a person from going on a shoplifting spree?
Or for that matter, a killing spree?

[Ripster42]

From what I read the person said that not having POLICE wouldn't lead to the collapse of society.

You INFERRED that a lack of police is a lack of law enforcement.

You state that military is the Only alternative to police because it was the one presented. But it is not the only alternative.

Fine, give me the alternative, because there were no other options given when I asked. The only thing given was reducing the need for police/military police (and again, I agree with this approach), not eliminating the need.

[kail]

We are taking about whether a police officer should pull you over or just log his photo and send you a ticket in the nail. You invented the cameras everywhere idea.

I mean, if someone is speeding it would be nice if highway patrol/police pulled him/her over instead of letting it be. Cameras can hit those who run a red light or have an expired plate but it won't stop reckless/drunk drivers active on the street.

[Ripster42]

Pfft what's to stop a person from going on a shoplifting spree?
Or for that matter, a killing spree?

Most people? Their sense of morals and having their needs fulfilled. A minority of people? Nothing. Which is why you need police. Sociopaths exist, as we're forced to observe every day in the US currently.

[Egomaniac]

Pfft what's to stop a person from going on a shoplifting spree?
Or for that matter, a killing spree?

Another person making the assumption that "no police" means "no "law enforcement".

[Shadowferal]

Another person making the assumption that "no police" means "no "law enforcement".

Explain how you imagine such a process works

[Themius]

Pfft what's to stop a person from going on a shoplifting spree?
Or for that matter, a killing spree?

Do you think people are just inherently bad?

Also stores often have their own security. Most people don't want to go around killing people..

Given your far right ideation, and your jump to assuming people must often feel the need to kill people...

[Egomaniac]

Fine, give me the alternative, because there were no other options given when I asked. The only thing given was reducing the need for police/military police (and again, I agree with this approach), not eliminating the need.

Restorative justice.
Civilian Patrols.

Most people? Their sense of morals and having their needs fulfilled. A minority of people? Nothing. Which is why you need police. Sociopaths exist, as we're forced to observe every day in the US currently.

Sociopaths do exist. And they keep getting employed by Police Departments.

[Ripster42]

Do you think people are just inherently bad?

Some people are. Most aren't. Sociopaths exist. We have one as president. It's not far right ideation.

- - - Updated - - -

Restorative justice.
Civilian Patrols.

Restorative justice isn't law enforcement.

Civilian patrols are just police with zero accountability, as opposed to the limited accountability we have now. I don't know about you, but I don't really want a "civilian patrol" of 40 racist white dudes out on patrol. The goal is progress, not regression.

[kail]

Lawmakers pass resolution, Mississippi state flag expected to come down.

The Governor has stated he will sign the bill. Huge victory for BLM and changing viewpoints. Good job Mississippi!

I personally can't wait for more whining from the usual folks that want to "retain history" and claim the confederate flag doesn't support slavery/racist ideals.

Civilian Patrols.

That is not a viable answer if we want law enforcement to require better training and held to a higher accountability.

[Shadowferal]

Restorative justice.
Civilian Patrols

I asked for a process and this is all you can come up with?
Lol..good luck with that!

I recall someone posting that people breaking quarantine should be shot. Had that person been at the park he could have unloaded on everyone there without any consequences.

[Ripster42]

I recall someone posting that people breaking quarantine should be shot. Had that person been at the park he could have unloaded on everyone there without any consequences.

Not zero consequences. That civilian patrol would either shoot him or give him high fives depending on their outlook. Which is why civilian patrols are a terrible fucking idea.

[Themius]

Some people are. Most aren't. Sociopaths exist. We have one as president. It's not far right ideation.

- - - Updated - - -



Restorative justice isn't law enforcement.

Civilian patrols are just police with zero accountability, as opposed to the limited accountability we have now. I don't know about you, but I don't really want a "civilian patrol" of 40 racist white dudes out on patrol. The goal is progress, not regression.

It is far right ideation.

95% of people arrested aren't being arrested for murders and rapes and the like.

[Ripster42]

It is far right ideation.

95% of people arrested aren't being arrested for murders and rapes and the like.

Okay, so what about that 5%? Again, this conversation isn't about reallocating funds to other services like housing, job training, health care, social workers, or food pantries. That has already been agreed to by me. I am in full support of that initiative. This conversation is about that last 5%. The realization that police are needed, just to a much lesser degree than they currently are.

[Themius]

Okay, so what about that 5%? Again, this conversation isn't about reallocating funds to other services like housing, job training, health care, social workers, or food pantries. That has already been agreed to by me. I am in full support of that initiative. This conversation is about that last 5%. The realization that police are needed, just to a much lesser degree than they currently are.

What about that 5%? Generally what happens is a report is made and then an investigation the fuck is a cop doing on the scene besides taking a report AND THEN REQUIRING ACTUAL INVESTIGATORS to come?

[cubby]

I personally can't wait for more whining from the usual folks that want to "retain history" and claim the confederate flag doesn't support slavery/racist ideals.

Their arguments are equally pathetic and transparent in their attempts to avoid the obvious racism they still harbor. I saw a message on Facebook earlier today, "gay marriage has been legal longer than the Confederacy lasted - where are the statues and memorials to that?".

I am very glad that Mississippi has reacted the way they did. The fact that they are moving forward in the right direction should be celebrated.

[Ripster42]

What about that 5%? Generally what happens is a report is made and then an investigation the fuck is a cop doing on the scene besides taking a report AND THEN REQUIRING ACTUAL INVESTIGATORS to come?

Making arrests, securing the scene, dealing with situations with active violence. As well, once you've done your investigation, do you want the social worker/investigator to go out and arrest the person? That's just what we currently have for cops with a different title.

I also believe cops should be responsible for traffic enforcement. See post

Would is not the same as need. I'd rather have traffic stops than a zillion more cameras. Though, I refer back to previous post, ameliorating the disparity in enforcement for race/class should definitely be a priority. This includes things like reviewing common patrol routes (one of the large factors in both race and class disparity), racial statistics under constant review, or moving things like malfunctioning tail lights and expired tags off the probable cause for a stop list.

for my acknowledgment that changes need to be made to traffic policing (non-exhaustive list).

[cubby]

Just to add to the idiocy of those arguing in favor of keeping Confederate statues up, while paraphrasing Jon Stewart, I don't recall seeing the GOP complaining when the Saddam Hussein statues were torn down.