1. #8401
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    It is far right ideation.

    95% of people arrested aren't being arrested for murders and rapes and the like.
    Okay, so what about that 5%? Again, this conversation isn't about reallocating funds to other services like housing, job training, health care, social workers, or food pantries. That has already been agreed to by me. I am in full support of that initiative. This conversation is about that last 5%. The realization that police are needed, just to a much lesser degree than they currently are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  2. #8402
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Okay, so what about that 5%? Again, this conversation isn't about reallocating funds to other services like housing, job training, health care, social workers, or food pantries. That has already been agreed to by me. I am in full support of that initiative. This conversation is about that last 5%. The realization that police are needed, just to a much lesser degree than they currently are.
    What about that 5%? Generally what happens is a report is made and then an investigation the fuck is a cop doing on the scene besides taking a report AND THEN REQUIRING ACTUAL INVESTIGATORS to come?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  3. #8403
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    I personally can't wait for more whining from the usual folks that want to "retain history" and claim the confederate flag doesn't support slavery/racist ideals.
    Their arguments are equally pathetic and transparent in their attempts to avoid the obvious racism they still harbor. I saw a message on Facebook earlier today, "gay marriage has been legal longer than the Confederacy lasted - where are the statues and memorials to that?".

    I am very glad that Mississippi has reacted the way they did. The fact that they are moving forward in the right direction should be celebrated.

  4. #8404
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    What about that 5%? Generally what happens is a report is made and then an investigation the fuck is a cop doing on the scene besides taking a report AND THEN REQUIRING ACTUAL INVESTIGATORS to come?
    Making arrests, securing the scene, dealing with situations with active violence. As well, once you've done your investigation, do you want the social worker/investigator to go out and arrest the person? That's just what we currently have for cops with a different title.

    I also believe cops should be responsible for traffic enforcement. See post

    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Would is not the same as need. I'd rather have traffic stops than a zillion more cameras. Though, I refer back to previous post, ameliorating the disparity in enforcement for race/class should definitely be a priority. This includes things like reviewing common patrol routes (one of the large factors in both race and class disparity), racial statistics under constant review, or moving things like malfunctioning tail lights and expired tags off the probable cause for a stop list.
    for my acknowledgment that changes need to be made to traffic policing (non-exhaustive list).
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  5. #8405
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Just to add to the idiocy of those arguing in favor of keeping Confederate statues up, while paraphrasing Jon Stewart, I don't recall seeing the GOP complaining when the Saddam Hussein statues were torn down.
    Last edited by cubby; 2020-06-28 at 01:37 AM.

  6. #8406
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Just to add to the idiocy of those arguing in favor of keeping Confederate statues up, and paraphrasing Jon Stewart, I don't recall seeing the GOP complaining when the Saddam Hussein statues were torn down.
    I don't even understand the point of their sophistry. It's not like they're convincing any non-racist people. "We put up a statue of Lee! You know, the guy who said he didn't want statues of himself."
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  7. #8407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    I don't even understand the point of their sophistry. It's not like they're convincing any non-racist people. "We put up a statue of Lee! You know, the guy who said he didn't want statues of himself."
    And because there really is no logical point to their public arguments, the only rational conclusion is deep seated racism.

  8. #8408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Making arrests, securing the scene, dealing with situations with active violence. As well, once you've done your investigation, do you want the social worker/investigator to go out and arrest the person? That's just what we currently have for cops with a different title.

    I also believe cops should be responsible for traffic enforcement.
    Most traffic violations can simply be mailed citations.

    You said active violence. Which isn’t very common. Most crimes aren’t that active and ongoing for arrests. And when it comes to arresting did you forget county police. State police. Marshall’s. Federal police. The fbi. Like.. do you think your local department are the only people that can arrest?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  9. #8409
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Most traffic violations can simply be mailed citations.
    And there are a lot that can't. Reckless and drunk driving definitely come to mind. And again, I don't want additional incentive to put in more cameras.

    You said active violence. Which isn’t very common. Most crimes aren’t that active and ongoing for arrests. And when it comes to arresting did you forget county police. State police. Marshall’s. Federal police. The fbi. Like.. do you think your local department are the only people that can arrest?
    So your answer for why we don't need police is because there's police?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  10. #8410
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    There has been a mass shooting in Louisville, Kentucky at a BLM protest there. Someone was livestreaming the protests to Facebook and managed to catch the gunman and the moment he opened fire on video.

    Careful what you click on, because the video is horrific and heart breaking.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  11. #8411
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    There has been a mass shooting in Louisville, Kentucky at a BLM protest there. Someone was livestreaming the protests to Facebook and managed to catch the gunman and the moment he opened fire on video.

    Careful what you click on, because the video is horrific and heart breaking.
    It honestly sounds like there's more than one gunman, and the one you do see is very white and deliberately aiming at people.

  12. #8412
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    And there are a lot that can't. Reckless and drunk driving definitely come to mind. And again, I don't want additional incentive to put in more cameras.



    So your answer for why we don't need police is because there's police?
    This whole thing has focused on getting my rid of and scaling back local police. Not literally all police. Scaling back beat cops and scaling backs cops for calls they shouldn’t be handling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  13. #8413
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    This whole thing has focused on getting my rid of and scaling back local police. Not literally all police. Scaling back beat cops and scaling backs cops for calls they shouldn’t be handling.
    Apparently you've missed this digression. This specific part has been about society collapsing with no police presence, and me calling bullshit. Not scaling back, none. No, I'm not the one who brought it up. It's why I've been clear, this whole time, that I agree police should be scaled back, because that's not what people have been arguing for. One person's explanation for why we needed no police was "community patrols" (which, I'm sure you don't need to be told how awful those can be) and restorative justice as if that wasn't a substitution for our court system and not our police.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  14. #8414
    Gotta say, "community patrols" as replacement for police is one of the most ridiculous ideas I have heard of. I don't even want to argue about it, it is so out of touch with reality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  15. #8415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Apparently you've missed this digression. This specific part has been about society collapsing with no police presence, and me calling bullshit. Not scaling back, none. No, I'm not the one who brought it up. It's why I've been clear, this whole time, that I agree police should be scaled back, because that's not what people have been arguing for. One person's explanation for why we needed no police was "community patrols" (which, I'm sure you don't need to be told how awful those can be) and restorative justice as if that wasn't a substitution for our court system and not our police.
    Um I've been reading the same thread and have been in this conversation for a couple hundred pages.

    The argument has mostly been against police departments and abolishing of dismantling to reallocating funding.

    Local police departments aren't all that important...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Gotta say, "community patrols" as replacement for police is one of the most ridiculous ideas I have heard of. I don't even want to argue about it, it is so out of touch with reality.

    Why though?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  16. #8416
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Um I've been reading the same thread and have been in this conversation for a couple hundred pages.
    That's great. You must have missed the statement that I was replying to.

    Police, like capitalism, have existed for a fraction of human history and yet we're told that society would crumble into the dust without either. For reasons.

    Why though?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Civilian patrols are just police with zero accountability, as opposed to the limited accountability we have now. I don't know about you, but I don't really want a "civilian patrol" of 40 racist white dudes out on patrol. The goal is progress, not regression.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  17. #8417
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    That's great. You must have missed the statement that I was replying to.
    Why would you assume there would be no accountability.... especially when this whole thing is about accountability.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  18. #8418
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Why would you assume there would be no accountability.... especially when this whole thing is about accountability.
    Because of the history of community patrols, which has been even more abysmal than the history of our police. The other name for 'community patrol' is 'lynch mob' if you live in a racist community. You don't get more accountability from less oversight. Again, the goal is progress, not regression.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  19. #8419
    The "United Constitutional Patriots" laughs at what you imagine as accountability.

  20. #8420
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    The "United Constitutional Patriots" laughs at what you imagine as accountability.
    Basically, this. If you people think that the "community patrols" would be good at keeping order and following the law, not their own interpretation of both of those things, think again.
    There is the whole question about training them, overseeing them, etc., unless someone thinks that those things are not needed xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

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