1. #8541
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    You're saying the public shouldn't have any anonymity..?
    And yet here you are...anonymous.
    Ah, name a more iconic duo, Shadowferal and grossly misrepresenting context in arguments.

    1) There's a difference between the internet and going outside.
    2) There's a difference between normal citizens and the police, the latter of which seems to have carte blanche to decide any bodily movement, even so much as an bodily twitch, as valid grounds for executing people.
    3) Contrary to your authoritarian stance, people with additional authority should be subject to significantly more oversight, so that they do not abuse their power over others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Define terrorism.
    https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/terrorism

    It definitely becomes you to ask for definitions to words that are already amply defined in dictionaries, though.
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  2. #8542
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Using either threat of violence, or violence, to force a political outcome.
    Like rioting and looting.

  3. #8543
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Like rioting and looting.
    Strange you would give a pass to the police doing the same.

    But then again, you were also the same bad faith actor who unironically believes that it's not possible for people to treat humans on another continent as humans.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

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  4. #8544
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Like rioting and looting.
    No because rioting and looting are both chaotic events that lack an actual directive. Disorder, is not terrorism, and there has been far far far more police breaking the law to protect their political position, than there have been riots or looting.

    Also how foolish, to lump "theft" into "terrorism" are you even bother to think before you press post?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    Strange you would give a pass to the police doing the same.

    But then again, you were also the same bad faith actor who unironically believes that it's not possible for people to treat humans on another continent as humans.
    Bad faith, or just simply that xenophobic and racist or bigoted. Those are the only excuses, either bad faith or just a bigot.

  5. #8545
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    Strange you would give a pass to the police doing the same.
    And here you are doing just that.
    You can't pretend to be pro-violence and then bitch when it happens to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    But then again, you were also the same bad faith actor who unironically believes that it's not possible for people to treat humans on another continent as humans.
    "Bad faith?" Just fucking stop.
    If someone shows himself to be a monster I've never had an issue with treating him as such.
    So stop using terms that you clearly don't know the meaning of.

  6. #8546
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    And here you are doing just that.
    You can't pretend to be pro-violence and then bitch when it happens to you.

    "Bad faith?" Just fucking stop.
    If someone shows himself to be a monster I've never had an issue with treating him as such.
    So stop using terms that you clearly don't know the meaning of.
    You probably shouldn't respond to people if you don't understand the terms.

  7. #8547
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    No because rioting and looting are both [B]chaotic events that lack an actual directive[/B
    So cute...why not just say that such events had nothing to do with Floyd's death too...because if you're into denial you might as we dive off into idiocy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Bad faith, or just simply that xenophobic and racist or bigoted. Those are the only excuses, either bad faith or just a bigot.
    Always bigoted against people who give a pass to child porn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    You probably shouldn't respond to people if you don't understand the terms.
    Oh please...you barely understand English half the time.

    Infracted - Trolling
    Last edited by Jester Joe; 2020-07-02 at 08:36 PM.

  8. #8548
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    So cute...why not just say that such events had nothing to do with Floyd's death too...because if you're into denial you might as we dive off into idiocy.

    Always bigoted against people who give a pass to child porn.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Oh please...you barely understand English half the time.
    Again descending into ad hominem. Don't you realize that all it does is make your own position seem that much weaker?

  9. #8549
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    So cute...why not just say that such events had nothing to do with Floyd's death too...because if you're into denial you might as we dive off into idiocy.

    Always bigoted against people who give a pass to child porn.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Oh please...you barely understand English half the time.
    Well done, you are truly a master of whataboutism.

    It went from police use of force can be seen as terrorism to but what about rioters and looters within 4 posts. I am impressed.

    Why are people even engaging with you?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  10. #8550
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Again descending into ad hominem. Don't you realize that all it does is make your own position seem that much weaker?
    Has he ever had a position that seemed anything but weak? Still, guess it can always get weaker.

  11. #8551
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    So cute...why not just say that such events had nothing to do with Floyd's death too...because if you're into denial you might as we dive off into idiocy.

    Always bigoted against people who give a pass to child porn.

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    Oh please...you barely understand English half the time.
    Literally a riot is defined as a violent disturbance, as riots are not targeted or direct attacks, they are not terrorist attacks. I'm diving into idiocy you say?

    A pass? seems you can't read, you never have seemed able to.

    I understand English very well. you though...

  12. #8552
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuujin View Post
    Has he ever had a position that seemed anything but weak? Still, guess it can always get weaker.
    Yeah, using personal attacks just draws more attention to how weak the argument is. And it shows that he knows it as well.

  13. #8553
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    And here you are doing just that.
    You can't pretend to be pro-violence and then bitch when it happens to you.
    Oh fun, a strawman. Like I didn't expect it from a bad faith actor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    "Bad faith?" Just fucking stop.
    Truth hurts I guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    If someone shows himself to be a monster I've never had an issue with treating him as such.
    I am a monster because I treat humans like humans? I wonder what does it make you, when you don't see other humans...as humans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    So stop using terms that you clearly don't know the meaning of.
    So you are not aware dictionaries exist?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Oh please...you barely understand English half the time.
    At least by your claim he "barely understands" the language, in the meantime, you don't even seem to know that dictionaries exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Bad faith, or just simply that xenophobic and racist or bigoted. Those are the only excuses, either bad faith or just a bigot.
    It's both. Anyone who defends bigots, are bigoted themselves by association.
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  14. #8554
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Police officer on your property and blocking your way? Honk them and they get out and point a gun at you..

    Watch this video and tell me this guy isn’t anything but a thug.



    And this officer is involved in other shooting instances
    Last edited by Themius; 2020-07-04 at 12:21 PM.

  15. #8555
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    And the fact that filming isn't mutually exclusive to institutional reform.
    Indeed, that's the point--what we have now is filming without reform.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's one step in an issue that should be multifaceted in its approach; I'm not pretending that body cams are a one-step fix.

    And maybe there's significantly better approaches, but I'm focusing on changes that could be made with minimal adjustments.

    It's also very much not about preventing abuse, but just trying to ensure we can garner evidence to prosecute that abuse. Your article makes the point that surveillance doesn't actually reduce bad behaviour, but that's not what I think it would help with.

    A much bigger component should be the ethical reforms I've discussed elsewhere; a duty to protect, a duty to to report malfeasance by colleagues, etc.
    Agreed.

    /10 char
    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    Until then, I honestly don't care about anything else much. Until then it can all burn down to the ground for all I care.
    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    Yeah, I think it's fair to conclude that "Fuck the poor" "Arch-angel of Riots" is just in it with the hope of inflicting maximum harm for maximum chaos, and since they've shown no particular attachment to any guiding moral, ideological, or political principle, it seems to be for the sake of maximum fun.

  16. #8556
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Police officer on your property and blocking your way? Honk them and they get out and point a gun at you..

    Watch this video and tell me this guy isn’t anything but a thug.



    And this officer is involved in other shooting instances
    Man, props to that doctor for being so chill despite a cop sticking a fucking gun in his face.

    Seriously, fuck that cop and fuck his buddies. Doctor has every right to be fuckin miffed at them after that behavior.

    Aurora seems like it's got cops that are almost as bad as Buffalo's.

  17. #8557
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/07/healt...ess/index.html

    It's an interview with DeiAngelo, not an opinion piece.

    And it also pretty extensively goes into her views and why she believes this. But sniping with a single sentence without any of that context makes it really easy to frame her as some random nutter and CNN as awful.

    It's also dishonest as fuck, dude. If you wanna have a discussion on her views, discuss her views.
    Alright, I shall take you up on that offer.

    The issue with Robin DiAngelo, and indeed the whole pantheon of Human Resources Anti-Racism trainers is that its all a scam. The whole reason for her writing the book White Fragility is to justify her industry and grift. She creates these grand problems via establishing an essentialist worldview (Some categories are inherently racist and biased and this is a permanent almost spiritual corruption they all have) and the only solution she offers is lifelong anti-bias diversity training (offered by her and her friends at $20,000 per corporate session, how convenient!). Her book hilariously enough is an admission that her own HR Training seminars don't work because they make people uncomfortable and angry, and DiAngelo, being a bloodless ghoul who doesn't explain too well the CONTEXT of her series of anecdotes that prove "White Fragility" even exists. The context being mandatory Human Resources Training Seminars, where of course no sane person wants to open up and let some ghoul psychoanalyze them in front of their boss whom could have them fired or pour their intimate thoughts out to be put on a file by some corporate lackey whose only mission is to protect the boss. To paraphrase Matt Taibbi, Her work is the intellectual equivalent of the “ordeal by water” witchcraft trial in which if you float, you’re a witch if you drown you aren't guilty, and tragically this is orthodoxy across much of the Human Resources world.

    As Matt Taibbi summarized the books central point well:
    White Fragility has a simple message: there is no such thing as a universal human experience, and we are defined not by our individual personalities or moral choices, but only by our racial category.
    (source)

    More importantly, the problem of Racism according to these Corporate consultants is something that cannot ever be solved by material policy as Tim Wise scolded Bernie Sanders about during the campaign trail. Thus for the DiAngelo's, Crenshaws, Coates, and Wise's of the world, it is instead a spiritual corruption that more importantly needs people to shell out lots of money to a new priestly caste of Anti-Racism activists whose constant sinecures are a necessary thing for them to fight Racism, which DiAngelo lets slip is impossible to actually fight, only manage. How is it managed? By giving DiAngelo lots of money.

    Also, there is a growing body of literature and research suggesting that the entire industry doesn't actually work and curbing racism and instead enhances it. Which is a fact Robin DiAngelo, indeed all the authors in this industry, admit to in their own books, that this stuff doesn't actually work. Much like any good grift, you have an invisible set of demons inside you, let us call them Thetans and only experts like DiAngelo, for sometimes thousands of dollars apiece can help you manage them, and if you cannot perceive your spiritual corruption, well that is just proof its there, double so if you are unwilling to confess to your spiritual pollution in front of the petty tyrants of HR who are recording all that you say at this mandatory training exercise and putting it on file to discipline you later, or you know straight fire you. Which is good news for them, because they've convinced people to keep giving them money to browbeat employees at various corporations and aide HR in its eternal quest to have ever more petty technicalities to discipline workers. No wonder then that Ibram Kendi wants a Federal Department of Anti-Racism, an HR Department for all, and importantly sinecures and secure work for Anti-Racism activists to monitor our thetans... I mean Racism.

    Robin DiAngelo exists within an industry, she is a corporate consultant as is the entire pantheon of professional Anti-Racism activists. Her entire schtick, as is all of theirs really, is that racism is a personal, internal corruption that we are basically born with and need these experts to help manage and fight it for the rest of our lives. My critique of her ideas is that they are fraudulent and more importantly that they are entirely self-serving.

    Again, closing with Taibbi:
    One of the central tenets of DiAngelo’s book (and others like it) is that racism cannot be eradicated and can only be managed through constant, “lifelong” vigilance, much like the battle with addiction. A useful theory, if your business is selling teams of high-priced toxicity-hunters to corporations as next-generation versions of efficiency experts — in the fight against this disease, companies will need the help forever and ever.
    (source)
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
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  18. #8558
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Notice how there’s a whole lot of “talk shit about the author” rather than actually disputing whether or not White Fragility is a thing, lol.

    It’s also amusing as hell because it tries to ignore that DiAngelo did not originate the concept, either. And using fucking Matt Taibbi as a source, to boot.

    Reminder that Taibbi continues to claim the Russia investigation was a witch hunt and openly endorsed the No True Whistleblower argument.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2020-07-04 at 08:47 PM.
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  19. #8559
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Again, closing with Taibbi:
    One of the central tenets of DiAngelo’s book (and others like it) is that racism cannot be eradicated and can only be managed through constant, “lifelong” vigilance, much like the battle with addiction. A useful theory, if your business is selling teams of high-priced toxicity-hunters to corporations as next-generation versions of efficiency experts — in the fight against this disease, companies will need the help forever and ever.
    (source)
    It's like crime, or ethics, or any other code of conduct. They exist because people will not naturally do the right thing every time, and need to have guidelines set out to define the limits they must stay within. Racism is just a component along those lines. Anyone thinking you can "fix" racism doesn't understand what racism is, and just wants those fighting for social justice to stop doing so, because they like the current levels on injustice how they are, thanks.

    This is blatantly obvious to anyone approaching the issue with any honesty at all. Among whom I do not include Taibbi.

    All you and Taibbi are doing is supporting and fostering racist prejudices as if they're acceptable and normal. You're being racist, yourself, in doing so. But I'm sure you'll complain that this is unfair, even though you won't have an argument to actually present.

  20. #8560
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's like crime, or ethics, or any other code of conduct. They exist because people will not naturally do the right thing every time, and need to have guidelines set out to define the limits they must stay within. Racism is just a component along those lines. Anyone thinking you can "fix" racism doesn't understand what racism is, and just wants those fighting for social justice to stop doing so, because they like the current levels on injustice how they are, thanks.

    This is blatantly obvious to anyone approaching the issue with any honesty at all. Among whom I do not include Taibbi.

    All you and Taibbi are doing is supporting and fostering racist prejudices as if they're acceptable and normal. You're being racist, yourself, in doing so. But I'm sure you'll complain that this is unfair, even though you won't have an argument to actually present.
    Being critical of a single book is not being critical of social justice in its entirety. I've perused it, and if you haven't read it yourself I can give a pretty brief summary. It is corporation style diversity training tailored towards risk aversion. Holding this book as a pillar for establishing peaceful cooperation with others of different races is like using a workplace conduct video on sexual harassment as a guideline for how to interact with people of the opposite gender. You can draw some insights, but identifying differences and how to politely navigate them only gets you so far.

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