1. #9441
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Yeah, okay.



    But yeah, @Paranoid Android is right - the tell was the getting miffed about speaking poorly of cosplayers rather than there being actual gestapo in Portland.
    Wow, what a solid comeback. You you ran out of articles citing more totally unbiased and trustworthy "studies" - I'm sold. And again, I'm not miffed, I'm amused - by seeing a term getting turned into a buzzword, and by you claiming that there's "actual gestapo" (sic) in Portland.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    I'm getting infracted by an American moderator on an American topic promoting/advocating weapons on a childrens forum, what else to expect on an American forum. I'm done here and i'm going to leave you one thing to remember:
    [extremely graphic picture of dead children]
    Hope you sleep well. With the lack of empathy the majority of you show i guess that won't be a problem. BB

  2. #9442
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Late Capitalism
    Posts
    50,400
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    Wow, what a solid comeback. You you ran out of articles citing more totally unbiased and trustworthy "studies" - I'm sold. And again, I'm not miffed, I'm amused - by seeing a term getting turned into a buzzword, and by you claiming that there's "actual gestapo" (sic) in Portland.
    Nah, I just stopped bothering looking for more when it became abundantly clear you were going to reject any evidence out of hand in favor of ancedotes based what you personally have observed and how you personally feel, which is that there isn't a problem. Because reasons. And yeah I was around for the "I'm not mad I was just trolling all along" phase of Reddit, too.

    Anyway, the one in which Trump regime forces in Portland have been using pepper spray against medical supplies to render them unusable by protestors.

    Reminder that violence against medical personnel and destruction of medical supplies is, in fact, a war crime.
    This website is not a place of honor. No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here. Nothing valued is here. What is here is dangerous and repulsive to us. The danger is in a particular location. The danger is still present in your time as it was in ours.

    Get in loser, we're saving the USPS.

  3. #9443
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    15,786
    Completely disregarding someone as being pointless to talk to is not a "solid comeback". Nobody is interested in your witless exchanges.
    /s

  4. #9444
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Nah, I just stopped bothering looking for more when it became abundantly clear you were going to reject any evidence out of hand in favor of ancedotes based what you personally have observed and how you personally feel, which is that there isn't a problem. Because reasons. And yeah I was around for the "I'm not mad I was just trolling all along" phase of Reddit, too.

    Anyway, the one in which Trump regime forces in Portland have been using pepper spray against medical supplies to render them unusable by protestors.

    Reminder that violence against medical personnel and destruction of medical supplies is, in fact, a war crime.
    I'm not mad, and neither did I claim to be trolling, but I understand your need to put words in my mouth - your ultra-polemic narrative wouldn't hold, even in appearance, without that kind of expedient, or without unconfirmed Twitter posts from a guy who probably hallucinates Nazis everywhere given his handle, and ridiculous hyperboles ("gestapo", really).
    That wasn't an official "first aid tent" by the way, it was a makeshift installation set up by protesters with medical knowledge. I'm pretty sure there's a substantial legal difference from dispersing those and covering the Red Cross in pepper spray (which didn't happen). Needless to say, the reports about police targeting those "street medics" are unilateral and while I certainly wouldn't expect the police to admit to doing such a thing, I don't trust whatever comes out of the mouth of some randoms either. Give me irrefutable video proof that it happened as those people described it, and I might change my stance. Otherwise it's the word of a side against the other, and I'm not prone to blindly trust either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    I'm getting infracted by an American moderator on an American topic promoting/advocating weapons on a childrens forum, what else to expect on an American forum. I'm done here and i'm going to leave you one thing to remember:
    [extremely graphic picture of dead children]
    Hope you sleep well. With the lack of empathy the majority of you show i guess that won't be a problem. BB

  5. #9445
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    36,435
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    I'm not mad, and neither did I claim to be trolling, but I understand your need to put words in my mouth - your ultra-polemic narrative wouldn't hold, even in appearance, without that kind of expedient, or without unconfirmed Twitter posts from a guy who probably hallucinates Nazis everywhere given his handle, and ridiculous hyperboles ("gestapo", really).
    That wasn't an official "first aid tent" by the way, it was a makeshift installation set up by protesters with medical knowledge. I'm pretty sure there's a substantial legal difference from dispersing those and covering the Red Cross in pepper spray (which didn't happen). Needless to say, the reports about police targeting those "street medics" are unilateral and while I certainly wouldn't expect the police to admit to doing such a thing, I don't trust whatever comes out of the mouth of some randoms either. Give me irrefutable video proof that it happened as those people described it, and I might change my stance. Otherwise it's the word of a side against the other, and I'm not prone to blindly trust either.
    Um... most hospital areas and medical tents are makeshift...there are few fucking "official" medic stations in unrest, yet it remains a war crime to attack them

    I don't think you're doing much critical thinking.

    Was it okay for Russia to bomb makeshift medical stations in Syria because they were only makeshift???
    Last edited by Themius; 2020-07-22 at 11:01 PM.

  6. #9446
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Late Capitalism
    Posts
    50,400
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    I'm not mad, and neither did I claim to be trolling, but I understand your need to put words in my mouth - your ultra-polemic narrative wouldn't hold, even in appearance, without that kind of expedient, or without unconfirmed Twitter posts from a guy who probably hallucinates Nazis everywhere given his handle, and ridiculous hyperboles ("gestapo", really).
    I mean what else would you call police that keep their identities and operations a secret?

    That wasn't an official "first aid tent" by the way, it was a makeshift installation set up by protesters with medical knowledge. I'm pretty sure there's a substantial legal difference from dispersing those and covering the Red Cross in pepper spray (which didn't happen).
    Only that the latter is generally considered a war crime whereas the form is legally protected by virtue of the US' legalisation of police brutality.

    If you're seriously retreating back to "well it doesn't matter because it's legal" stance, you've already lost the argument. We get that fascism is usually legal in a fascist state.

    Needless to say, the reports about police targeting those "street medics" are unilateral and while I certainly wouldn't expect the police to admit to doing such a thing, I don't trust whatever comes out of the mouth of some randoms either. Give me irrefutable video proof that it happened as those people described it, and I might change my stance. Otherwise it's the word of a side against the other, and I'm not prone to blindly trust either.
    In which the chief of Asheville PD confirmed they destroyed water and medical supplies of protesters. Both are considered war crimes.

    The one in which police across the country have been targeting marked medical personnel pretty much across the country.

    Oh, you're also talking to one of those "protesters with medical knowledge" that got tear gassed, by the way. Mine was at Capitol Hill, while most of us were in scrubs to boot!

    My badge:

    This website is not a place of honor. No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here. Nothing valued is here. What is here is dangerous and repulsive to us. The danger is in a particular location. The danger is still present in your time as it was in ours.

    Get in loser, we're saving the USPS.

  7. #9447
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Um... most hospital areas and medical tents are makeshift...there are few fucking "official" medic stations in unrest, yet it remains a war crime to attack them

    I don't think you're doing much critical thinking.

    Was it okay for Russia to bomb makeshift medical stations in Syria because they were only makeshift???
    You have to be a medic to set up a medical station. A medical student or even just some random guy with basic medical knowledge doesn't qualify. Hell, I have first-aid knowledge and training, it came with from the instructor scuba diving license. Hardly makes me a medic. Also, are you seriously comparing urban guerrilla with the Syrian war? I mean, I shouldn't be surprised, there's people who literally see the Gestapo out there, but come on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I mean what else would you call police that keep their identities and operations a secret?



    Only that the latter is generally considered a war crime whereas the form is legally protected by virtue of the US' legalisation of police brutality.

    If you're seriously retreating back to "well it doesn't matter because it's legal" stance, you've already lost the argument. We get that fascism is usually legal in a fascist state.



    In which the chief of Asheville PD confirmed they destroyed water and medical supplies of protesters. Both are considered war crimes.

    The one in which police across the country have been targeting marked medical personnel pretty much across the country.

    Oh, you're also talking to one of those "protesters with medical knowledge" that got tear gassed, by the way. Mine was at Capitol Hill, while most of us were in scrubs to boot!

    My badge:

    First link:
    451: Unavailable - The page you are attempting to access is not available in your country. - can't be bothered to swap VPN node, sorry (is that Fox though?)
    Second link: regrettable stuff, but that's what happens when protests turn violent - or I might speculate, disregard any social distancing measures, how is that not concerning? Also, I recognize that picture of your badge, because you posted it in an instance in which you made an outlandish claim for a someone who's supposed to have medical training. Perhaps you're not concerned about this protests and the impact they'll have on COVID spread because, and I quote, "there are no 'COVID particles'"? Do you still maintain the view that there are no COVID particles, or did you go back on your medical books, the link I provided (which you conveniently ignored) in that thread, or even just wikipedia?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    I'm getting infracted by an American moderator on an American topic promoting/advocating weapons on a childrens forum, what else to expect on an American forum. I'm done here and i'm going to leave you one thing to remember:
    [extremely graphic picture of dead children]
    Hope you sleep well. With the lack of empathy the majority of you show i guess that won't be a problem. BB

  8. #9448
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    36,435
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    You have to be a medic to set up a medical station. A medical student or even just some random guy with basic medical knowledge doesn't qualify. Hell, I have first-aid knowledge and training, it came with from the instructor scuba diving license. Hardly makes me a medic. Also, are you seriously comparing urban guerrilla with the Syrian war? I mean, I shouldn't be surprised, there's people who literally see the Gestapo out there, but come on.
    Gestapo is little more than secret police... a force of military that is unidentifiable and beholden to a few people. This falls under that... or are you not aware of reality right now?

    the situation in Syria is a domestic one. One with a government going after people who are rising up against that government.

    With is a protest but people rising up peacefully against their government? Let's recall how scandalised the world was when peaceful protest in Syria were met with violence.

  9. #9449
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    You have to be a medic to set up a medical station. A medical student or even just some random guy with basic medical knowledge doesn't qualify. Hell, I have first-aid knowledge and training, it came with from the instructor scuba diving license. Hardly makes me a medic. Also, are you seriously comparing urban guerrilla with the Syrian war? I mean, I shouldn't be surprised, there's people who literally see the Gestapo out there, but come on.


    First link:
    451: Unavailable - The page you are attempting to access is not available in your country. - can't be bothered to swap VPN node, sorry (is that Fox though?)
    Second link: regrettable stuff, but that's what happens when protests turn violent - or I might speculate, disregard any social distancing measures, how is that not concerning? Also, I recognize that picture of your badge, because you posted it in an instance in which you made an outlandish claim for a someone who's supposed to have medical training. Perhaps you're not concerned about this protests and the impact they'll have on COVID spread because, and I quote, "there are no 'COVID particles'"? Do you still maintain the view that there are no COVID particles, or did you go back on your medical books, the link I provided (which you conveniently ignored) in that thread, or even just wikipedia?
    It’s a Fox affiliate.

    Transparency and accountability is what our community expects and deserves. As the Chief of Police I understand the concern has been raised over the destruction of water, food, and medical supplies. The Asheville Police Department (APD) would always prefer confiscation over destruction. We apologize for not being able to confiscate these supplies last night.

    Over the past three days APD has tried to eliminate objects that can be thrown at protesters and law enforcement. Because water bottles, in particular, have been continuously used over the last three nights, officers destroyed them. Officers also searched for potentially dangerous objects, such as explosives.

    The supply station was not permitted by the City of Asheville and was located on private property, without the permission of the property owner. The actions involving the supply station occurred following multiple warnings, and after the 8:00 p.m. city-wide curfew.
    From the link.

  10. #9450
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Gestapo is little more than secret police... a force of military that is unidentifiable and beholden to a few people. This falls under that... or are you not aware of reality right now?

    the situation in Syria is a domestic one. One with a government going after people who are rising up against that government.

    With is a protest but people rising up peacefully against their government? Let's recall how scandalised the world was when peaceful protest in Syria were met with violence.
    I could ask of you the same. "Little more than secret police"? Oook, I believe we're done here. History lessons are in order it seems. In this case, too, wiki would suffice, but you're clearly unable to say anything without resorting to such hyperboles. Free hint: if the Gestapo was actually out there, you wouldn't be posting right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    It’s a Fox affiliate.

    From the link.
    Amusing he had to resort to a Fox affiliate. Thanks for the quote, it confirms what I thought was happening. I suppose I'll save the outrage for when official medics will be prevented from doing their job, seeing as how the protests didn't turn to be exactly peaceful.
    Last edited by Coolthulhu; 2020-07-22 at 11:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    I'm getting infracted by an American moderator on an American topic promoting/advocating weapons on a childrens forum, what else to expect on an American forum. I'm done here and i'm going to leave you one thing to remember:
    [extremely graphic picture of dead children]
    Hope you sleep well. With the lack of empathy the majority of you show i guess that won't be a problem. BB

  11. #9451
    Legendary! unfilteredJW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Seagrove Beach, FL
    Posts
    6,037
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    I could ask of you the same. "Little more than secret police"? Oook, I believe we're done here. History lessons are in order it seems. In this case, too, wiki would suffice, but you're clearly unable to say anything without resorting to such hyperboles. Free hint: if the Gestapo was actually out there, you wouldn't be posting right now.
    You want to talk history and ignore the lead up.

    Toss less stones.
    Wall of LOLs
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulla View Post
    Yeah I know. It'll take another 2 years + to knock Rozz and Flarelane down to size as Endus eventually was. Not worth the effort. My lack of posting here recently has been sort of 2-fold. One is because it's extremely boring watching the crazies come to the inevitable conclusion that they've failed. TDS seems to be an awfully persistent disease. Two is because I'm saving my infraction points to unleash unholy Hell when Trump wins re-election.

  12. #9452
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    I could ask of you the same. "Little more than secret police"?
    Armed men with covered faces in tactical gear rush up to you. They have no identifying insignia to let you know who they are, refuse to tell you who they are or who they work for, or why they're approaching you. They grab you, zip-tie your hands (or hold them behind your back), and march you to an unmarked van.

    Who are these people if not the "secret police"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    Oook, I believe we're done here. History lessons are in order it seems. In this case, too, wiki would suffice, but you're clearly unable to say anything without resorting to such hyperboles. Free hint: if the Gestapo was actually out there, you wouldn't be posting right now.
    Oh boy.

    The force was created by Hermann Göring in 1933 by combining the various security police agencies of Prussia into one organisation.
    DHS is combining the forces of CBP, ICE and other agencies who are deployed in Portland.

    On 20 April 1934, oversight of the Gestapo passed to Schutzstaffel (SS) national leader, Heinrich Himmler, who was also appointed Chief of German Police (Chef der Deutschen Polizei) by Hitler in 1936.
    DHS is currently run by multiple "acting" directors/deputies who have not been approved by the Senate as required, and they are currently in charge of a domestic federal police force. They are all hardcore Trump loyalists, and acting Director Wolf has openly discussed "proactive arrests", which blatantly violate the Fourth Amendment.

    I don't think you want the comparisons to continue, because they're not gonna look good for the Gestapo out there in Portland.

  13. #9453
    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    You want to talk history and ignore the lead up.

    Toss less stones.
    Throw less tones? Such as claiming that the Gestapo's out there and the US plunged into full-blown fascism? I believe that qualifies. Not only that, but if people actually believe it which seems to be the case in a number of posts, that's no longer hyperbolic language, that's buying into a literal ideology-driven conspiracy theory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    I'm getting infracted by an American moderator on an American topic promoting/advocating weapons on a childrens forum, what else to expect on an American forum. I'm done here and i'm going to leave you one thing to remember:
    [extremely graphic picture of dead children]
    Hope you sleep well. With the lack of empathy the majority of you show i guess that won't be a problem. BB

  14. #9454
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    Such as claiming that the Gestapo's out there and the US plunged into full-blown fascism?
    Is plunging*

    We're not there yet. Fascism rarely occurs overnight unless you elect a Republican Fascist Party like Italy did with Mussolini.

  15. #9455
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    36,435
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    I could ask of you the same. "Little more than secret police"? Oook, I believe we're done here. History lessons are in order it seems. In this case, too, wiki would suffice, but you're clearly unable to say anything without resorting to such hyperboles. Free hint: if the Gestapo was actually out there, you wouldn't be posting right now.
    History lessons are in order? That's hilarious, I take it you decided to ignore history. You decided to ignore the political landscape, and the laws, and the movement of all the pieces that culminated in the ultimate evil.
    The force was created by Hermann Göring in 1933 by combining the various security police agencies of Prussia into one organisation.
    In portland, we have a mishmash of various security agencies from the fed. all merged together into a single paramilitary under the direction of 1-2 people... did you skip this bit?

    It did not answer to judicial oversight. that was a major component. Tell me WHO THE FUCK IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE OVERSIGHT of this paramilitary? Because it isn't Congress, it's some fucking guy appointed by some other guy.

    The Gestapo distinguished itself from other police in that it functioned not just as a police force but as a force inseparable from the Nazi Party. It had a mandate to operate outside the law or judicial review to combat legal activity deemed unacceptable by the Party.
    So we have a force of secret police being wielded by 1-2 people with the president directing them to invade cities that are democrat and he doesn't like because they do not align with republican values.

    One of the most effective weapons of the Gestapo was Schutzhaft or “protective custody.” Unlike its use in democratic countries, where a witness or other individual is taken into custody to protect them from a real threat, the Nazis used the concept very differently. Because enemies of the state were so hated, the Nazis argued, it was necessary to confine them in protective custody to protect them from the righteous anger of good German citizens.
    So our paramilitary is kidnapping people off the streets, not arresting them for anything.. and detaining them... because... of wrong think and their loss told them to. And trump says it is to protect Portland where the citizens and mayor want them out.


    Tell me do you consider the lead up to the formation or action to be part of the thing or not?

    Because this is the lead up to it

  16. #9456
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    I could ask of you the same. "Little more than secret police"? Oook, I believe we're done here. History lessons are in order it seems. In this case, too, wiki would suffice, but you're clearly unable to say anything without resorting to such hyperboles. Free hint: if the Gestapo was actually out there, you wouldn't be posting right now.


    Amusing he had to resort to a Fox affiliate. Thanks for the quote, it confirms what I thought was happening. I suppose I'll save the outrage for when official medics will be prevented from doing their job, seeing as how the protests didn't turn to be exactly peaceful.
    It’s local news and has little to do with Faux News. And the protests have been overwhelmingly peaceful. You really need to educate yourself, as evidenced by the rest of the thread’s responses to you not knowing history.

  17. #9457
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    36,435
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    It’s local news and has little to do with Faux News. And the protests have been overwhelmingly peaceful. You really need to educate yourself, as evidenced by the rest of the thread’s responses to you not knowing history.
    In Coolthulhu world, one day 11 million people died in concentrations camps. Totally not a rapid though methodical change in laws and such over several years, nope that didn't happen.

  18. #9458
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Late Capitalism
    Posts
    50,400
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    It’s local news and has little to do with Faux News. And the protests have been overwhelmingly peaceful. You really need to educate yourself, as evidenced by the rest of the thread’s responses to you not knowing history.
    And I mean I deliberately picked out Faux News to forestall the obvious "Lamestream Media" deflections at any recorded instance of police brutality, as bootlickers are wont to do. Like we aren't nearly 500 pages on in a thread of videos and articles full of said recorded instances.
    This website is not a place of honor. No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here. Nothing valued is here. What is here is dangerous and repulsive to us. The danger is in a particular location. The danger is still present in your time as it was in ours.

    Get in loser, we're saving the USPS.

  19. #9459
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Armed men with covered faces in tactical gear rush up to you. They have no identifying insignia to let you know who they are, refuse to tell you who they are or who they work for, or why they're approaching you. They grab you, zip-tie your hands (or hold them behind your back), and march you to an unmarked van.

    Who are these people if not the "secret police"?
    In which context? Is there actual proof they arrested people who were doing nothing wrong? No stone-throwing, no setting cars on fire, no looting, no massive violations of anti-COVID measures? If so, they people, possibly police (contractors are a thing too, if they had zero IDs they could've been private contractors, which doesn't excuse them, but still) abusing their power. Hardly "secret" if everyone witnessed it and seems to well informed about it though, wouldn't you agree?

    And how is it weird for them to combine forces as the protests grow both in number and violence? See, you can make all the Gestapo comparisons you want, but they won't look good when the hysteria is gone. They'll look like conspiracy theories. Besides, if this is so evident, we'd know. European media have always been keeningly observing the US' internal matters, even more so ever since the I Can't Breathe protests started. Guess what... there are no Nazi alarms going off in Europe. Only on internet forums and Twitter. Everything else, the way the US can't handle the pandemic &c., it's all there. Trump's ridiculous Tweets, everything gets covered extensively. But again - no Gestapo. No Nazis. Not even self-styled communist (European communist, not watered-down American "communist") papers that date back to the post WWII great divide have gone so far as to say that the US turned Nazi overnight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    I'm getting infracted by an American moderator on an American topic promoting/advocating weapons on a childrens forum, what else to expect on an American forum. I'm done here and i'm going to leave you one thing to remember:
    [extremely graphic picture of dead children]
    Hope you sleep well. With the lack of empathy the majority of you show i guess that won't be a problem. BB

  20. #9460
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    I'm totally chill, I just find the processes of how new uses for words are created, and this is a rather surreal one. As to why they wear that camo thing, I don't know, though I doubt it's out of a shared hive-minded military fetish, and it's still better than nothing in urban guerrilla/combat contexts.


    See above for the first question. As to the other point, I could ask you in return if you really think that them being in a military uniform instead of a police one would make that much of a difference. I think that's even more futile to discuss how they're dressed than the terminology. Or perhaps not - anti-riot police uniforms are scarier than military ones. They're designed to be scary in order to disperse the crowds. I've been charged once (by accident I might add, I exited from the wrong subway exit and found myself getting charged), the whole "black wall of doom marching towards you" and banging on their shields is really scary. So yeah, the more I think seriously of it, the more I'm convinced that riot control uniforms are more intimidating than guys in camo w/o shields to bang on.
    It is and that is the point of the tweet. You are totally lost it seems to me in this subject. The police since this has begun and before have a heavy military presence on their force. From the gear they wear, to weapons and vehicles. Police forces have been arming and actually been given military hardware since 9/11. It seems they are of the motto "use it or lose it", since most have demonstrated an over zealous use of strong arm tactics.

    So yeah, if you don't get that police are not here as a military occupying force and a civil branch that is suppose to help the community and defuse situations instead of escalating them, then I can't help you.
    “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States…. [It is] nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’”

    -Isaac Asimov

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •