Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Edge-]

I hate this bullshit naming - military style this and that. It does not work like that. It is a surveilance plane. It could be used by FBI to spy on narco cartels - would that make it a military purpose? No of course. Same crap as "military style assault rifle".

It's military, because it's an Air Force plane. And surveilling nacro cartels would happen in another country, which is different than deploying military assets in the US.

Add military to anything to get a stronger reaction, welcome to journalism. So simple, so effective.

Again, it's literally an Air Force plane. It's the military. It's not an FBI plane, nor is there any evidence the FBI has requested use of it.

Gestapo? Urgh.... And yes, blaming it on someone else doing it first still does not excuse it. But if you want to escalate (as that's what it is), go ahead. If USA want's to burn, then have fun burning.

They showed up without the state requesting them and some of their first actions were to disappear people off the streets into unmarked vans, without identifying themselves. That's Gestapo tactics.

Also, buildings have people in them. If you set one on fire, well...

Ah yes, the empty police association building that suffered singed paperwork. Won't anyone think of the children. Not defending singing some paperwork, but that's also not lighting a building on fire with people on it.

[Hilhen7]

They showed up without the state requesting them and some of their first actions were to disappear people off the streets into unmarked vans, without identifying themselves. That's Gestapo tactics.

Kidnapping US citizens, classy.

[Edge-]

Relevant, because Republicans have no shame and have no qualms lying and taking things out of context to support their jackbooted thugery.

[Easo]

It's military, because it's an Air Force plane. And surveilling nacro cartels would happen in another country, which is different than deploying military assets in the US.

Again, it's literally an Air Force plane. It's the military. It's not an FBI plane, nor is there any evidence the FBI has requested use of it.

They showed up without the state requesting them and some of their first actions were to disappear people off the streets into unmarked vans, without identifying themselves. That's Gestapo tactics.

Ah yes, the empty police association building that suffered singed paperwork. Won't anyone think of the children. Not defending singing some paperwork, but that's also not lighting a building on fire with people on it.

You can survey them inside USA too, you know?
And it still does not matter to whom it belongs to. I fail to see what is the problem of using purpose built hardware for monitoring protests.

Yes yes, Gestapo. And fascists. And what not else. USA is the most backwards of all Western nations, but that does not make it having Gestapo. The real Gestapo would be much more horrible and you would have all those arrested people die, be tortured, etc.

Just because you showed one picture with little damage does not make shooting fireworks anywhere else but in the air less dangerous.
And once more, lasers, remember those?
I could not give a fuck who started what first, violence is violence, no matter which side commits it.

[Edge-]

You can survey them inside USA too, you know?
And it still does not matter to whom it belongs to. I fail to see what is the problem of using purpose built hardware for monitoring protests.

Under specific circumstances, but as a rule no. Just like, as a rule, the US Army is not deployed within the USA.

https://www.wired.com/2012/05/air-fo...-domestic-spy/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/u...-protests.html

Yes yes, Gestapo. And fascists. And what not else. USA is the most backwards of all Western nations, but that does not make it having Gestapo. The real Gestapo would be much more horrible and you would have all those arrested people die, be tortured, etc.

Sorry if I'm calling a spade a spade before it gets to that point?

Just because you showed one picture with little damage does not make shooting fireworks anywhere else but in the air less dangerous.
And once more, lasers, remember those?

Again, those all occurred after the Gestapo showed up. The Gestapo escalated, the protesters responded in kind. If the Gestapo hadn't shown up, no lasers or fireworks would be there.

I could not give a fuck who started what first, violence is violence, no matter which side commits it.

You may not, but it matters.

If someone punches you in the face and you punch them back, you're not both equally in the wrong.

[Dadwen]

You can survey them inside USA too, you know?
And it still does not matter to whom it belongs to. I fail to see what is the problem of using purpose built hardware for monitoring protests.

Yes yes, Gestapo. And fascists. And what not else. USA is the most backwards of all Western nations, but that does not make it having Gestapo. The real Gestapo would be much more horrible and you would have all those arrested people die, be tortured, etc.

Just because you showed one picture with little damage does not make shooting fireworks anywhere else but in the air less dangerous.
And once more, lasers, remember those?
I could not give a fuck who started what first, violence is violence, no matter which side commits it.

Body found in Minneapolis pawnshop that was torched in George Floyd protests

keep trying to burn stuff down and you're going to get someone.

[Elegiac]

As opposed to what, spy plane designed NOT for warzones? xD This looks like a reaching, Edge.
If they had done that via some helicopter, would that be a problem? Why would they not be allowed to monitor masses of people during protests? Emphasis on the word monitor, obviously, before someone else starts screaming something.
I highly recommend you to take a look at mirror, right now.
Fireworks ARE fucking dangerous. Everyone should know that. Same goes for the lasers, remember that story? One thing does not excuse another, it does not, for fucks sake, it DOES NOT.

Why’d they name it Target if they didn’t want people looting it?

[lockedout]

You are unironically wrong in fact and law but I'd be happy to see you meet your assertion.

Arson

Arson is defined as the willful and malicious burning of the property of another. It is considered a violent crime and is treated as a felony in most states. According to the National Fire Incident Reporting System, almost 17,000 acts of arson occur annually in the United States, leading to over half a million dollars in property losses each year.


https://www.justia.com/criminal/offe...-crimes/arson/

[Elegiac]

Arson

Arson is defined as the willful and malicious burning of the property of another. It is considered a violent crime and is treated as a felony in most states. According to the National Fire Incident Reporting System, almost 17,000 acts of arson occur annually in the United States, leading to over half a million dollars in property losses each year.

https://www.justia.com/criminal/offe...-crimes/arson/

America law also considers pizza a vegetable. Congratulations on successfully identifying that the country that is in the throes of a cargo cult values property more than people.

[lockedout]

I hate this bullshit naming - military style this and that. It does not work like that. It is a surveilance plane. It could be used by FBI to spy on narco cartels - would that make it a military purpose? No of course. Same crap as "military style assault rifle".
Add military to anything to get a stronger reaction, welcome to journalism. So simple, so effective.

Gestapo? Urgh.... And yes, blaming it on someone else doing it first still does not excuse it. But if you want to escalate (as that's what it is), go ahead. If USA want's to burn, then have fun burning.



I was talking about fireworks exploding in faces, in hands, etc. You might be surprised, but that small rocket you shoot at New Year's eve can tear your face off.
Also, buildings have people in them. If you set one on fire, well...

Friend of mine lit a rocket out of a tube staked in the floor it traveled into a neighbors yard where they had a barbecue and hit His daughter in the eye, she has problems to this day with her eye and a permanent scar.

- - - Updated - - -

America law also considers pizza a vegetable. Congratulations on successfully identifying that the country that is in the throes of a cargo cult values property more than people.

So when presented with facts discount them instead of admitting you're wrong.

Of course you'll share a link to this law correct?

[Thee ANCOM]

Ammon Bundy comes out in support of BLM and defunding the Police.

that's some libertarianism for ya.

don't mistake this as an endorsement of Bundy.

[Elegiac]

So when presented with facts discount them instead of admitting you're wrong.

I mean the fact still remains that property damage is not violence, either in ethical parlance or in most legal jurisdictions; pointing that a country in the throes of a crony capitalist death cult considers arson 'a violent crime' isn't a supporting argument for the same reason that I'd be hesitant to make the argument that animal rights legislation is a good thing because a country that promoted it was helping clean the environment through ethnic cleansing.

Of course you'll share a link to this law correct?

American lawmakers have ruled that the amount of tomato paste in pizza sauce means that pizzas can be counted as a vegetable.

The bizarre move, which was decided in a vote on the annual spending bill for the Department of Agriculture, happened for purely political reasons.

The crucial bill had oversight over subsidised school meals, and the department was seeking to restrict pizza, chips and starchy vegetables from the menu for school children in a bid to combat child obesity.

MSNBC reports that politicians had been lobbied heavily by the frozen food industry who didn’t want to see a major revenue stream cut off given how often pizza is found on the menus of school canteens in the US.

All you're really doing here is underlining that the American legal system is set up to protect wealthy interests and that the problem isn't just with "a few bad cops".

[Edge-]

Ammon Bundy comes out in support of BLM and defunding the Police.

that's some libertarianism for ya.

He may be a lunatic nutter, but he's at least a consistent lunatic nutter.

[Saltysquidoon]

Arson

Arson is defined as the willful and malicious burning of the property of another. It is considered a violent crime and is treated as a felony in most states. According to the National Fire Incident Reporting System, almost 17,000 acts of arson occur annually in the United States, leading to over half a million dollars in property losses each year.]

So a few things
1. The source you posted has no sources, and when you go to the arson section of 'violent crime' you get this gem.

Although property crimes are generally considered to be a separate category of offenses, criminal laws have designated the crime of arson as one type of property crime that is so harmful as to constitute a violent crime.

So basically your source's source is not only "dude but trust me" but also recognises that property damage is not a violent crime (except possibly in good ol' 'murica).

2. In Oregon a "violent felony" is defined thusly

(a)Involves actual or threatened serious physical injury to a victim; or

(b)Is a sexual offense. As used in this paragraph, "sexual offense" has the meaning given the term "sex crime" in ORS 181.594.

So, in the circumstances we're discussing it's not.

3. IF there are US laws that considers property damage as 'violent' all that does is go to show that you live in an objectivist oligarchy where property rights are considered on par or superior to human rights. That's nothing to be proud of.

[jonnysensible]

Ammon Bundy comes out in support of BLM and defunding the Police.

that's some libertarianism for ya.

don't mistake this as an endorsement of Bundy.

ill plug bundyville again here give it a listen and youll understand why. Him and his followers call the police 'blue ISIS' lol

[Elegiac]

ill plug bundyville again here give it a listen and youll understand why. Him and his followers call the police 'blue ISIS' lol

I mean broken clock and all that but he ain't wrong.

[lockedout]

I mean the fact still remains that property damage is not violence, either in ethical parlance or in most legal jurisdictions; pointing that a country in the throes of a crony capitalist death cult considers arson 'a violent crime' isn't a supporting argument for the same reason that I'd be hesitant to make the argument that animal rights legislation is a good thing because a country that promoted it was helping clean the environment through ethnic cleansing.



American lawmakers have ruled that the amount of tomato paste in pizza sauce means that pizzas can be counted as a vegetable.

The bizarre move, which was decided in a vote on the annual spending bill for the Department of Agriculture, happened for purely political reasons.

The crucial bill had oversight over subsidised school meals, and the department was seeking to restrict pizza, chips and starchy vegetables from the menu for school children in a bid to combat child obesity.

MSNBC reports that politicians had been lobbied heavily by the frozen food industry who didn’t want to see a major revenue stream cut off given how often pizza is found on the menus of school canteens in the US.

All you're really doing here is underlining that the American legal system is set up to protect wealthy interests and that the problem isn't just with "a few bad cops".

Thanks for the link.
What wealthy interests are protected by making arson a violent crime?

[Dadwen]

So when presented with facts discount them instead of admitting you're wrong.

Of course you'll share a link to this law correct?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...gmhN_blog.html

Congress passed a revised agriculture appropriations bill last week, essentially making it easier to count pizza sauce as a serving of vegetables. The move has drawn widespread outrage from consumer advocates and pundits, who see “pizza is a vegetable.” as outlandish.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...-school-lunch/

He sent us a CBS News/Associated Press article from Nov. 15, 2011, "Congress pushes back on healthier school lunches." The topic? A spending bill that forces the U.S. Department of Agriculture to ignore a proposed change from the Obama administration about how to credit tomato paste. (Congress simply won't fund implementation of the new rule.) The House and Senate both approved the bill Nov. 17, and the president signed it the next day.

The new law doesn't mention pizza.

What it does is allow just two tablespoons of tomato paste to continue to count as a serving of vegetables. The USDA had proposed requiring a full half-cup of the concentrated tomato spread before it would count as a fruit or veggie — a standard "serving" by volume — far more than you'd find slathered on a slice o' school cafeteria pizza. He sent us a CBS News/Associated Press article from Nov. 15, 2011, "Congress pushes back on healthier school lunches." The topic? A spending bill that forces the U.S. Department of Agriculture to ignore a proposed change from the Obama administration about how to credit tomato paste. (Congress simply won't fund implementation of the new rule.) The House and Senate both approved the bill Nov. 17, and the president signed it the next day.

[Elegiac]

Thanks for the link.
What wealthy interests are protected by making arson a violent crime?

Y'all seriously asking which rich people are protected by enabling harsh reprisal against people that damage their property, huh.

[Edge-]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...gmhN_blog.html

Go just a bit further beyond what you bolded.

Do you think that the reduction in the amount of concentrated tomato spread from a full half-cup down to two tablespoons, which is easily what you find in a slice of pizza, was just a totally weird coincidence or something?