Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[postman1782]

Maybe, but once the guy starts running without firing, why pursue him while shouting : "shoot me, nigga !" ?

As I said, very muddy situation and it will be a complex case.

Again, there is no stand your ground law in Wisconsin, and yelling at him to shoot you, doesn't give him the right to shoot you. I don't know why you guys keep saying this. Especially since Rosenbaum wasn't the first one that he pointed his gun at.

Basically what you are saying is, that people shouldn't try to disarm a school shooter before he starts killing people.

[Mayhem]

Maybe, but once the guy starts running without firing, why pursue him while shouting : "shoot me, nigga !" ?

As I said, very muddy situation and it will be a complex case.

You would just keep any threat around, wouldn't you? Yeah, well, there's an armed person pointing his gun at random people, that's fine, let's do nothing about it.

[Specialka]

Again, there is no stand your ground law in Wisconsin, and yelling at him to shoot you, doesn't give him the right to shoot you. I don't know why you guys keep saying this. Especially since Rosenbaum wasn't the first one that he pointed his gun at.

Basically what you are saying is, that people shouldn't try to disarm a school shooter before he starts killing people.

If I charge at you with shouting at you and throwing stuff at you, won't you feel some kind of pressure ?

And do not put word in my mouth.

[postman1782]

You would just keep any threat around, wouldn't you? Yeah, well, there's an armed person pointing his gun at random people, that's fine, let's do nothing about it.

Yep, he doesn't want to disarm school shooters either, they are just firing at people he once knew, when he had the opportunity to save some lives by disarming them.

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If I charge at you with shouting at you and throwing stuff at you, won't you feel some kind of pressure ?

And do not put word in my mouth.

Nope, because the plastic bag wasn't dangerous, and charging at someone that is pointing their gun at random people should be a civic fucking duty.

[Specialka]

You would just keep any threat around, wouldn't you? Yeah, well, there's an armed person pointing his gun at random people, that's fine, let's do nothing about it.

Maybe but maybe you should not shout :'shoot me nigga' but instead : "put down your weapon". One feels threatening, the other a lot less and at least, it shows what your intent is.

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Yep, he doesn't want to disarm school shooters either, they are just firing at people he once knew, when he had the opportunity to save some lives by disarming them.

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Nope, because the plastic bag wasn't dangerous, and charging at someone that is pointing their gun at random people should be a civic fucking duty.

He was not poiting his gun at someone at that moment. He was running away.

As I keep repeating, it is a very muddy situation and not as clear cut as you are trying to make it to be.

[Mayhem]

If I charge at you with shouting at you and throwing stuff at you, won't you feel some kind of pressure ?

And do not put word in my mouth.

Am I illegally armed and currently committing a crime while you're unarmed?

[postman1782]

He was not poiting his gun at someone at that moment. He was running away.

Oh, so we should ignore him once he stops breaking the law, right? That is about the most bullshit fucking argument you could have made.

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Am I illegally armed and currently committing a crime while you're unarmed?

Even then, it doesn't give you the right to pull the trigger. It is like conservatives brains stop working when it comes to guns and the law.

[Specialka]

Am I illegally armed and currently committing a crime while you're unarmed?

Does it change anything ? So because you are illegally armed, you should not defend yourself ? I mean, come on, it is basic survival instinct.

[Mayhem]

Maybe but maybe you should not shout :'shoot me nigga' but instead : "put down your weapon". One feels threatening, the other a lot less and at least, it shows what your intent is.

Right, let's care for the feeling of criminals when confronting them. An armed vigilante is just like a deer in the headlights, better not startle them, poor armed guys.

[postman1782]

Does it change anything ? So because you are illegally armed, you should not defend yourself ? I mean, come on, it is basic survival instinct.

I mean, the 3rd guy Rittenhouse shot, was technically illegally armed and he was trying to defend himself and the rest of the people there, you arguing for him now?

[Mayhem]

Does it change anything ? So because you are illegally armed, you should not defend yourself ? I mean, come on, it is basic survival instinct.

I don't know, I don't think criminals have a right to self-defense when they put themselves into the position that requires self-defense. Or are you saying criminals have a right to claim self-defense when the police shoot at them?

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I mean, the 3rd guy Rittenhouse shot, was technically illegally armed and he was trying to defend himself and the rest of the people there, you arguing for him now?

No, he wasn't. He was legally armed.

[postman1782]

I don't know, I don't think criminals have a right to self-defense when they put themselves into the position that requires self-defense. Or are you saying criminals have a right to claim self-defense when the police shoot at them?

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No, he wasn't. He was legally armed.

Every time these guys argue like SpecialKa here, they keep saying he was a convicted felon, making him not legally able to carry a gun.

[Mayhem]

Every time these guys argue like SpecialKa here, they keep saying he was a convicted felon, making him not legally able to carry a gun.

Nope, he had a misdemeanor once, that doesn't take away his right to carry.

[Specialka]

I don't know, I don't think criminals have a right to self-defense when they put themselves into the position that requires self-defense. Or are you saying criminals have a right to claim self-defense when the police shoot at them?

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No, he wasn't. He was legally armed.

We are not even talking about self defense here because self defense is a notion in the law. We are talking about instinct (where self defense does not apply, but survival instinct does).

And in most laws, and it does in the US law, someone committing a felony or being the instigator of the situation they are in can't claim self-defense or have this right severely "lowered".

So it all boils down to: was he poiting his gun at people and threatening them or were he handling it poorly ? Because his defense will revolve around that.

[postman1782]

Nope, he had a misdemeanor once, that doesn't take away his right to carry.

Well then everyone that I have been arguing with about that, has been lying, not surprising LOL.

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We are not even talking about self defense here because self defense is a notion in the law. We are talking about instinct (where self defense does not apply, but survival instinct does).

And in most laws, and it does in the US law, someone committing a felony or being the instigator of the situation they are in can't claim self-defense or have this right severely "lowered".

So it all boils down to: was he poiting his gun at people and threatening them or were he handling it poorly ? Because his defense will resolve around that.

Well, so, you just threw your ENTIRE argument out of the window since he committed a felony by pointing his gun at someone AND was the instigator. He pointed his gun at a random black guy that was cutting through the parking lot he was standing in to go to his car.

[DingDongKing]

Again, there is no stand your ground law in Wisconsin, and yelling at him to shoot you, doesn't give him the right to shoot you. I don't know why you guys keep saying this. Especially since Rosenbaum wasn't the first one that he pointed his gun at.

Basically what you are saying is, that people shouldn't try to disarm a school shooter before he starts killing people.

I'm mystified as to how people are even defending a scenario where a 17 year old is walking the fucking streets with an AR15.

a) he's underage b) he's crossed fucking state lines in order to go play some Tom Clancy hero c) the police were irresponsible as fuck with their backslapping of his 'patrolling' d) the conservative media need to take a damn step-back and ask the question of why they're legitimising murder.

[Specialka]

Well then everyone that I have been arguing with about that, has been lying, not surprising LOL.

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Well, so, you just threw your ENTIRE argument out of the window since he committed a felony by pointing his gun at someone AND was the instigator. He pointed his gun at a random black guy that was cutting through the parking lot he was standing in to go to his car.

And do you have any evidence of that ? Like videos ? Testimonies can be seen as weak evidences especially when they come from the protesters since it is the opposite side.

What do you not understand when I say that the case is very complex ?

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I'm mystified as to how people are even defending a scenario where a 17 year old is walking the fucking streets with an AR15.

a) he's underage b) he's crossed fucking state lines in order to go play some Tom Clancy hero c) the police were irresponsible as fuck with their backslapping of his 'patrolling' d) the conservative media need to take a damn step-back and ask the question of why they're legitimising murder.

Oh, do not get me wrong. I do find the 2A completely stupid and it should be removed and severe gun laws should be put in place.

I also find this whole situation a total waste as a 17 year old boy face potentially life time or god know how many years in jail.

But I also find people far too quick to judge a case that is only at the beginning, especially when the case is extremely complex.

It is my moderate point of view as an European, but you can't have moderation in the USA, it is always black and white (pun intended).

[postman1782]

And do you have any evidence of that ? Like videos ? Testimonies can be seen as weak evidences especially when they come from the protesters since it is the opposite side.

What do you not understand when I say that the case is very complex ?

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Oh, do not get me wrong. I do find the 2A completely stupid and it should be removed and severe gun laws should be put in place.

I also find this whole situation a total waste as a 17 year old boy face potentially life time or god know how many years in jail.

But I also find people far too quick to judge a case that is only at the beginning, especially when the case is extremely complex.

It is my moderate point of view as an European, but you can't have moderation in the USA, it is always black and white (pun intended).

This was before the videos started rolling, but even the Daily Caller "reporter" that was walking with him, even stated that Rittenhouse was handling his gun poorly. This is in the charging documents. And the other witness that states that Rittenhouse pointed his gun at him, but apparently that isn't good enough for you.

And if he didn't want to fact potentially life in jail, he should have never gone, like he was supposed to.

[Specialka]

This was before the videos started rolling, but even the Daily Caller "reporter" that was walking with him, even stated that Rittenhouse was handling his gun poorly. This is in the charging documents. And the other witness that states that Rittenhouse pointed his gun at him, but apparently that isn't good enough for you.

And if he didn't want to fact potentially life in jail, he should have never gone, like he was supposed to.

Handling is gun poorly can be poiting it on someone but it can also be so many things. And so we have only one witness that says that he was pointing his gun at someone or do we have more ? Only one witness saying that won't hold in front of a court and a jury. So yes, it is not enough for me as you like to say it. And I do not think you should charge someone armed with your bare hand, because I would think you are a threat to me as you are stupid enough to charge me without a weapon.

[postman1782]

Handling is gun poorly can be poiting it on someone but it can also be so many things. And so we have only one witness that says that he was pointing his gun at someone or do we have more ? Only one witness saying that won't hold in front of a court and a jury. So yes, it is not enough for me as you like to say it. And I do not think you should charge someone armed with your bare hand, because I would think you are a threat to me as you are stupid enough to charge me without a weapon.

We have 2. The Daily Caller "reporter", and the black guy. There is a reason when he was arrested he got one charge, then 2 days later after interviews of witnesses, they dropped 5 more on top of him.