1. #13241
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    I stand by the fact that by voting him in, he has the liberal support and I don't see the problem of using "liberal darling" as shorthand for that I don't really care why they voted him, as that is not relevant to the statement of denying that liberals stand behind Biden.


    If you're looking for the solution to police violence, liberalism or fascism are not the answers. US history has shown that.
    True. Ronald Reagan once said “if Fascism ever comes to America it will come in the name of Liberalism”.
    “A trillion six hundred billion worth. A trillion 400 hundred billion worth. A billion 400 million. A trillion 400 billion. 740 million billion dollars.” “I’m going to beat Joe Biden look at my record”. - Joe Biden.

  2. #13242
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Because its American fascists who encourage other American fascists to kill people, not the Russians. But they make a great boogeyman to the liberals of the US by taking away the blame from the flaws in the US systems. The US fascists don't need new ideas from Russia, they have been doing the same shit since the US nazi party was founded.
    The America flames of racism have been burning for 100s of years. The Russians are still helping American racists to keep those fires burning.

  3. #13243
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    He is the democratic nominee, don't kid yourself. US liberals have always been even more right-wing than those in the rest of the world, so is it really a surprise to you that US liberals would pick Biden?

    Or you gonna tell me now that they did not pick Biden because they liked him? Do they just pick the candidate they hate the most, or what? Or are the democrats not liberal anymore, then who are?
    The US Democratic Party is the party of "play it safe". The chose Biden not because they thought he was best for the job, not because he best represents liberal values......they chose him because they thought he was the safest pick.
    When I despair, I remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible.
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  4. #13244
    Immortal Templar 331's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    True. Ronald Reagan once said “if Fascism ever comes to America it will come in the name of Liberalism”.
    Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
    Funny how words have definitions.

  5. #13245
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    True. Ronald Reagan once said “if Fascism ever comes to America it will come in the name of Liberalism”.
    Yes, we know, Reagan said a lot of stupid things.
    “Leadership: Whatever happens, you’re responsible. If it doesn’t happen, you’re responsible.” -- Donald J. Trump, 2013

    "I don't take responsibility at all."
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  6. #13246
    Banned Thee ANCOM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    True. Ronald Reagan once said “if Fascism ever comes to America it will come in the name of Liberalism”.
    who the hell cares what that brain dead, hypocritical war criminal thinks. conservatives and liberals are two sides of the same authoritarian coin. or are you NOT defending the teenager who went to a protest to kill the would be vandals and rioters?

  7. #13247
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    True. Ronald Reagan once said “if Fascism ever comes to America it will come in the name of Liberalism”.
    First, Fascism emerges out of Liberal societies as a historical rule. Second, Reagan himself was just a type of Liberal. Very few politicians within the United States aren't Liberals, none currently elected are currently outside the branch of liberalism. Even the allegedly uber Commie Sanders is really a moderate and a Social Democrat deep down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
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  8. #13248
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    True. Ronald Reagan once said “if Fascism ever comes to America it will come in the name of Liberalism”.
    Actually, it was a riff Sinclair Lewis:
    Quote Originally Posted by “It Can’t Happen Here:”
    “But he saw too that in America the struggle was befogged by the fact that the worst Fascists were they who disowned the word ‘Fascism’ and preached enslavement to Capitalism under the style of Constitutional and Traditional Native American Liberty.”
    Quote Originally Posted by “Gideon Planish”
    “I just wish people wouldn’t quote Lincoln or the Bible, or hang out the flag or the cross, to cover up something that belongs more to the bank-book and the three golden balls.”
    and James Waterman Wise, Jr.:
    If fascism comes, he added, it will not be identified with any “shirt” movement, nor with an “insignia,” but it will probably be “wrapped up in the American flag and heralded as a plea for liberty and preservation of the constitution.”
    and John Thomas Flynn:
    Quote Originally Posted by “As We Go Marching”
    But when fascism comes it will not be in the form of an anti-American movement or pro-Hitler bund, practicing disloyalty. Nor will it come in the form of a crusade against war. It will appear rather in the luminous robes of flaming patriotism; it will take some genuinely indigenous shape and color, and it will spread only because its leaders, who are not yet visible, will know how to locate the great springs of public opinion and desire and the streams of thought that flow from them and will know how to attract to their banners leaders who can command the support of the controlling minorities in American public life. The danger lies not so much in the would-be Fuhrers who may arise, but in the presence in our midst of certainly deeply running currents of hope and appetite and opinion. The war upon fascism must be begun there.
    and Henry A. Wallace:
    The really dangerous American fascist... is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power... They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective, toward which all their deceit is directed, is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection.
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-08-31 at 03:21 AM.
    As above, so below.
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    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  9. #13249


    Eerie similar. Don't you think?

    Well more Fords and Chevy's and less Toyata's
    “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States…. [It is] nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’”

    -Isaac Asimov

  10. #13250
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post


    Eerie similar. Don't you think?

    Well more Fords and Chevy's and less Toyata's
    We need to talk a lot more about how these out of state instigators are invading urban areas in an attempt to cause intentional unrest.

  11. #13251
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Why not though? I'm confused.. Russia specifically has been involved in these. They were involved when it came to unite the right, they were involved when it came to organisation a number of other gatherings of hate groups and such in America. So... why not ask this question? And the fact you think they must be liberal... really speaks to the fact you do not care to have a proper conversation.
    I thought when the cold war was over we'd heard enough dumb shit that the boogeyman russia had done.

    Americans need to take ownership of their dumb shit at some point and stop pointing the finger at russia every damn time.

  12. #13252
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    I thought when the cold war was over we'd heard enough dumb shit that the boogeyman russia had done.

    Americans need to take ownership of their dumb shit at some point and stop pointing the finger at russia every damn time.
    Any quick overview of American history reveals that probably is never going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    Tankie Paleo-Conservatism with TERF characteristics / Socialism with My Chemical Romance characteristics. Caramelldansen Nationalism. Aimee Terese was right about Warren. Anti-HR Aktion. Bashar Al-Assad's runescape gf.

  13. #13253
    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    I thought when the cold war was over we'd heard enough dumb shit that the boogeyman russia had done.

    Americans need to take ownership of their dumb shit at some point and stop pointing the finger at russia every damn time.
    It'll never happen. It is easier to imagine someone might vote for, say a racist bigot who promotes xenophobic ideas, because they are lied to or misguided by some outside force (Russians in this case), rather than because they secretly (or not so secretly) share the same views as said person.

  14. #13254
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuujin View Post
    It'll never happen. It is easier to imagine someone might vote for, say a racist bigot who promotes xenophobic ideas, because they are lied to or misguided by some outside force (Russians in this case), rather than because they secretly (or not so secretly) share the same views as said person.
    In this case, it's more that the racist bigot who promotes xenophobic ideas hasn't been relegated to the status of destitute and thus removed from relevance due to continued financial support from Russians.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  15. #13255
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    In this case, it's more that the racist bigot who promotes xenophobic ideas hasn't been relegated to the status of destitute and thus removed from relevance due to continued financial support from Russians.
    I guess this is easier to believe than these elements have always existed in America and that the GOP doesn't give a fuck about the law.

    Russia for sure have hooks in the guy but they're only pulling a few strings, most of the responsibility for all this shit falls on American's shoulders.

  16. #13256
    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    I thought when the cold war was over we'd heard enough dumb shit that the boogeyman russia had done.

    Americans need to take ownership of their dumb shit at some point and stop pointing the finger at russia every damn time.
    This administration has just replaced the word russia with china....so...ya...
    "The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president," - McConnell
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  17. #13257
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    I thought when the cold war was over we'd heard enough dumb shit that the boogeyman russia had done.

    Americans need to take ownership of their dumb shit at some point and stop pointing the finger at russia every damn time.
    What exactly is your problem?

    America has exploited groups within other countries for their intelligence operations... this is not something that is new, it is something that has happened.

    Was jamaica to blame for corruption? Yes they were. Was that corruption helped by America's CIA operations within Jamaica in the late 80s which ultimately catapulted the country more quickly towards the mess it became? Why yes.. yes that too is true.

    Saying that Russia is exploiting right wingers who themselves are a pathetic bunch who are terribly prone to propaganda and violence isn't saying 100% Russia's fault.

    But to sit here and try to pretend Russia's actions have zero effect on the country... well that's just silly. Or have we forgotten the unite the right rally? Have we already forgotten the heavy use of social media that indeed may have swayed enough weak minded people towards Trump?

    Have we forgotten how elections in Trinidad used social media to swing an election in a very very drastic way that would not have happened otherwise.

    The target country of propaganda or intelligence plots are themselves to blame... but to sit here and bitch and moan to other people because they note that some things have connection to Russia... With Russia exploiting the unstable right wingers, in order to spread chaos.

    At this moment we have a fucking security council member Ron Johnson freely peddling Russian KGB propaganda that the fucking intelligence agencies themselves say are Russian KGB propaganda. Are you going to say I am trying to say America has no responsibility?

    No one is giving the argument that America has no responsibility... but it is important to note when it is Russia and to publicise that quite a lot because maybe some of them may think twice about following information or random fucking groups that popped up.

    The Americans who fall for this are gullible fools willing to be manipulated. Saying that xyzzy violent event may be traced back to a Russian account that made 2 groups and then thousands of bots spreading messages of hate and fear and then said to gather, which then led to violence. Isn't saying the people who joined those groups aren't responsible for their own actions. saying that Russia played a role in no way removes agency from people or their responsibility so what in the bloody fucking hell are you lot getting all pissy about Russia being brought up??? The tactics that Russia is using are not dissimilar to those the CIA have used in other countries and we generally have no problem saying the usa instigated or caused this event when they did x intelligence operations for y outcome

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    I guess this is easier to believe than these elements have always existed in America and that the GOP doesn't give a fuck about the law.

    Russia for sure have hooks in the guy but they're only pulling a few strings, most of the responsibility for all this shit falls on American's shoulders.
    But no one is saying that the people aren't responsible...

    Like you are conflating shit, and so is the other poster.

    The GOP hasn't given shit about the law... the GOP is often hateful and they latch on to things that bolster that hate. That's a problem with America that has always been there. And russia is exploiting it

    Russia exploiting it doesn't suddenly mean I am saying that America isn't squarely responsible Which is the conclusion you came to EVEN THOUGH I NEVER SAID THAT.

    QANON prays on some very... interesting people to say the least. Does that mean I am now saying that those people aren't responsible when they say.... go into a pizzeria with a gun looking for kids?? Fuck no.
    Last edited by Themius; 2020-08-31 at 05:02 AM.

  18. #13258
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    What exactly is your problem?

    America has exploited groups within other countries for their intelligence operations... this is not something that is new, it is something that has happened.

    Was jamaica to blame for corruption? Yes they were. Was that corruption helped by America's CIA operations within Jamaica in the late 80s which ultimately catapulted the country more quickly towards the mess it became? Why yes.. yes that too is true.

    Saying that Russia is exploiting right wingers who themselves are a pathetic bunch who are terribly prone to propaganda and violence isn't saying 100% Russia's fault.

    But to sit here and try to pretend Russia's actions have zero effect on the country... well that's just silly. Or have we forgotten the unite the right rally? Have we already forgotten the heavy use of social media that indeed may have swayed enough weak minded people towards Trump?

    Have we forgotten how elections in Trinidad used social media to swing an election in a very very drastic way that would not have happened otherwise.

    The target country of propaganda or intelligence plots are themselves to blame... but to sit here and bitch and moan to other people because they note that some things have connection to Russia... With Russia exploiting the unstable right wingers, in order to spread chaos.

    At this moment we have a fucking security council member Ron Johnson freely peddling Russian KGB propaganda that the fucking intelligence agencies themselves say are Russian KGB propaganda. Are you going to say I am trying to say America has no responsibility?

    No one is giving the argument that America has no responsibility... but it is important to note when it is Russia and to publicise that quite a lot because maybe some of them may think twice about following information or random fucking groups that popped up.

    The Americans who fall for this are gullible fools willing to be manipulated. Saying that xyzzy violent event may be traced back to a Russian account that made 2 groups and then thousands of bots spreading messages of hate and fear and then said to gather, which then led to violence. Isn't saying the people who joined those groups aren't responsible for their own actions. saying that Russia played a role in no way removes agency from people or their responsibility so what in the bloody fucking hell are you lot getting all pissy about Russia being brought up??? The tactics that Russia is using are not dissimilar to those the CIA have used in other countries and we generally have no problem saying the usa instigated or caused this event when they did x intelligence operations for y outcome

    - - - Updated - - -



    But no one is saying that the people aren't responsible...

    Like you are conflating shit, and so is the other poster.

    The GOP hasn't given shit about the law... the GOP is often hateful and they latch on to things that bolster that hate. That's a problem with America that has always been there. And russia is exploiting it

    Russia exploiting it doesn't suddenly mean I am saying that America isn't squarely responsible Which is the conclusion you came to EVEN THOUGH I NEVER SAID THAT.

    QANON prays on some very... interesting people to say the least. Does that mean I am now saying that those people aren't responsible when they say.... go into a pizzeria with a gun looking for kids?? Fuck no.
    The GOP is getting help from Russia yeah, but they're the ones with the power in this dynamic. Not Russia. It's not really the same as the US influencing smaller countries elections. The GOP can't really do this to any other country other than maybe China (and they're trying).

    Is the KGB still making propaganda, or are they using cold war era stuff?

  19. #13259

    Alliance Portland Shooter Allegedly Identified

    Shooter of Aaron Danielson allegedly identified, confirmed and turned in by sister.

    https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/202...d-protest.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Oregon Live
    A 48-year-old man who was accused of carrying a loaded gun at an earlier downtown Portland protest is under investigation in the fatal shooting Saturday night of a right-wing demonstrator after a pro-Trump rally.

    Michael Forest Reinoehl calls himself an anti-fascist and has posted videos and photos of demonstrations he attended since late June, accompanied by the hashtags #blacklivesmatter, #anewnation and #breonnataylor.

    Sources familiar with the case but not authorized to speak said police are investigating Reinoehl. A family member also identified him as a man captured in photos and video seen leaving the shooting scene shortly before 9 p.m. Saturday.

    Aaron Danielson, a supporter of the conservative group Patriot Prayer, was shot in the chest and died in the street. It was soon after most cars in a caravan of supporters of President Donald Trump had left the city’s downtown streets.

    Video images of the fatal shooting captured a tall, thin white man in a hat and white tube socks running from the scene at Southwest Third Avenue and Alder Street around 8:45 p.m. Screenshots zeroed in a tattoo of a fist on the man’s neck.

    The grainy video and other photos, together with witness statements from live streamer Justin Dunlap, suggest the victim may have used some type of mace or pepper spray and then collapsed after gunshots ring out.

    Reinoehl’s 36-year-old sister said she was awakened just before 8 a.m. Sunday by a threatening phone call from someone who told her that “our whole family was in danger unless we turned him over.”

    “That’s how I found out,” that her brother was allegedly involved, she told The Oregonian/OregonLive.

    She called Sandy police to report the threat, she said. Once she looked online and saw screenshots of her brother’s photo, she said she called Portland detectives.

    “We reached out to police and confirmed that we recognized Michael in the screenshots,” she said. She asked that her name not be used because of the threats.
    If this truly is the shooter, it is nice he was caught so fast. Surprising, given the low quality of available videos and pictures.

    Hopefully we may find out details of the incident and what may have led up to it.
    It's just an old war, not even a cold war

  20. #13260
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    The GOP is getting help from Russia yeah, but they're the ones with the power in this dynamic. Not Russia. It's not really the same. The GOP can't really do this to any other country other than maybe China (and they're trying).

    Is the KGB still making propaganda, or are they using cold war era stuff?
    The GOP theoretically has "power" but remember the GOP is a minority on the way out that relies on manipulation, suppression, and rule breaking so what they need and want is to stay in power.

    Using Russian propaganda that just so happens to align with them, because the GOP enjoys corruption and private profits for themselves gives Russia the power, or a great deal of it.

    The KGB is making propaganda and the GOP party is using it as it helps them.

    The rest of the people in the country on the right... are generally gullible and eat it up, while their leaders shoves more into them. It is a symbiotic relationship that the GOP is more than pleased to have, besides one person maybe?

    What I am saying is that me noting that there are Russian connections that are often related to these gatherings of right wing extremist, isn't say Russia is 100% to blame... it is a statement of fact that Russia uses fake news and accounts, and ads, and videos, and such to target them. And then those people who don't care to think, and rather just act... just act.

    In all of this I do not blame Russia as for why this is happening. Instead I could note Russia to show how Russia exploits the failures of the American system.

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