1. #13801
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Yes that is disgusting, and I'm sure many Police disagree with him. Had to stop with the TYT follow up though, ain't listening to their tripe.

    On a side note, certainly doesn't help when the DA of Portland refuses to process rioters on criminal charges whom end up back on the streets to commit more rioting.
    He’s still there even after that...

  2. #13802
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    The argument "number of officers that were guilty of misconduct" is especially bonkers considering qualified immunity exists and officers being differently treated under the law not only because of their profession but also because of who they dealt with (talking about minorities here if it isn't obvious).
    Ya the system is built in a way that they can get away with all kinds of shit that would screw with the numbers that along with the easy to find stuff like how the us has so many more police killings and the worlds largest jail population paint a pretty clear picture of your chances of being victimized being way higher then the rest of the first world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Yes that is disgusting, and I'm sure many Police disagree with him.
    If they disagree with him they should do every thing in his power to get him out of the force up to refusing to work under him in way.

    If they aren’t willing to do as such they cant be good cops.

  3. #13803
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Eli Valley did a great piece on this whole shitshow.

    It's a cool picture but is there a movement asking for democrats to denounce violence? The most I've seen is people begging the DA of the afflicted cities to press charges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Just gonna post this here as the other thread was closed as soon as I finished typing and it applies to this one to.



    Compare America to the rest of the First world world it out paces most country’s on police killings (rather it was justified or not) an insanely huge prison population and this last one is just guess as I don’t feel like looking it up but I’d guess it has far more misconduct reports.

    The numbers don’t lie either the police are just worse then most of the first world and have a system made to support them even when they are in the wrong or America’s are the worse people on the planet and the police are totally justified for cracking down on them so much harder. These are the only to opinions you have to pick one.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ers_by_country
    When you say most of the world do you mean the west or places like Africa the middle east and china as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinstorm View Post
    .............Reading this post reminded me of the Michael Drejka case. For those who don't remember he was arguing/yelling at a woman over a parking spot (I think she parked in a handicap spot while not being handicapped). Her husband seeing what he thought was his wife being threatened came up and pushed him into the ground. Michael then pulled out his gun and shot the husband... killing him (when the gun was drawn the guy started to back away... but Michael shot him anyway).

    If I remember correctly... that state had a stand your ground law.... and he still got convicted for manslaughter over it. Given that... I'm struggling very much seeing how when it comes down to it how people can not see that Kyle should face conviction for this. Only way I can see it is if you use the fact that he is a minor.... (and thus his poor judgement from the fact that he is a minor should be taken into consideration) and I don't think that is enough to justify the 3 victims not seeing justice done.
    He should face conviction for fleeing the state and illegally carrying a weapon but the key difference in your example and what happened at no point did his attacker reliant or show hesitant barring the one who had most of his arm blown off.

  4. #13804
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    When you say most of the world
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Compare America to the rest of the First world world it out paces most country’s on police killings (rather it was justified or not) an insanely huge prison population and this last one is just guess as I don’t feel like looking it up but I’d guess it has far more misconduct reports.

    The numbers don’t lie either the police are just worse then most of the first world and have a system made to support them even when they are in the wrong or America’s are the worse people on the planet and the police are totally justified for cracking down on them so much harder. These are the only to opinions you have to pick one.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ers_by_country
    You're forgetting an important adjective there.

  5. #13805
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    You're forgetting an important adjective there.
    Fair enough my bad. Though to be fair I think china qualifies as a first world country

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Terrorists tend to get live in most countries.
    They do but I don't see anything that occured as a political act at least not a intentional.

  6. #13806
    https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...-other-causes/

    Biden said that more cops have died from COVID-19 than while on patrol.

    COVID-19 by itself has killed more law enforcement officers than all other causes combined, according to two groups that track these numbers.

    No matter how we parsed the data — by excluding correctional and detention center officers, or by focusing on felonious deaths to officers that could be considered "on patrol" — COVID-19 posed the greatest single threat to officers’ lives.

    We rate this claim Mostly True.
    Reminder that if the "BLUE LIVES MATTERS" folks cared about law enforcement officers so much, they wouldn't be holding anti-mask protests and would be trying to find ways to better protect officers from the single greatest risk to their lives this year: A virus that has killed more officers than all other causes of death combined.

  7. #13807
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Because it isn't "in-white conflict". The protests in which this was set was about the police brutalization and victimization of black Americans.



    In short, yes. The only real alternative is that they're grossly willfully ignorant and for some reason unwilling to make even a basic effort to learn the facts. But that generally means the first.



    And yet, you can't make an argument that supports that.

    The Wisconsin self defense law, which I've linked at least three times now, clearly contradicts you on this. You don't get to rewrite the law to suit your feels.
    I'm not rewriting the law. I simply have a more nuanced understanding of it then you.

    The only way it doesn't hold up is if you can know the thoughts of his attacker and know with a certainty he would not turn the weapon on his victim if he gained control of it.

  8. #13808
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Fair enough my bad. Though to be fair I think china qualifies as a first world country
    I'd say it does, but from what I'm seeing the data is pretty limited. So "Most first world countries" remains a perfectly accurate statement, even accounting for the lack of accurate data from China as a single exception, if it is one, doesn't contradict "most".

  9. #13809
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I'd say it does, but from what I'm seeing the data is pretty limited. So "Most first world countries" remains a perfectly accurate statement, even accounting for the lack of accurate data from China as a single exception, if it is one, doesn't contradict "most".
    Depends if you give by population or by actual countries but I'm willing to say I was wrong as we are now simply splitting hairs.

  10. #13810
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I'm not rewriting the law. I simply have a more nuanced understanding of it then you.
    Making shit up is not a "more nuanced understanding".

    And you are making shit up.

    The only way it doesn't hold up is if you can know the thoughts of his attacker and know with a certainty he would not turn the weapon on his victim if he gained control of it.
    This is absolutely false.

    There is no expectation of psychic mind-reading under the law. This is where you start making shit up, to try and avoid having the law apply to this case. "Oh, Rittenhouse wasn't literally psychic, so he can shoot whoever he wants" is a really bad argument and does not have any merit at all.

  11. #13811
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Making shit up is not a "more nuanced understanding".

    And you are making shit up.



    This is absolutely false.

    There is no expectation of psychic mind-reading under the law. This is where you start making shit up, to try and avoid having the law apply to this case. "Oh, Rittenhouse wasn't literally psychic, so he can shoot whoever he wants" is a really bad argument and does not have any merit at all.
    I'm not making anything up... you don't need to wait for the blade to be 3 inches deep before its self defense and you don't need to be on the ground desperately wrestling for control of a gun either.

    I am sorry these seems beyond your comprehension.

  12. #13812
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    He should face conviction for fleeing the state and illegally carrying a weapon but the key difference in your example and what happened at no point did his attacker reliant or show hesitant barring the one who had most of his arm blown off.
    Kyle is going to be exonerated... overwhelming evidence clear as day it was 100% self-defense in all instances of his shootings... at no point was he the instigator, yet the left-wing media has portrayed him as "going on a rampage". People claiming he illegally brought a firearm over, said firearm was from a friend of his in Wisconsin so it didn't travel across states. At best he'll probably get a misdemeanor for something.

    Hell, the idiot that got shot in the arm [that had a pistol] gave Kyle's defense more ammo when he said in a twitter post that he regretted not emptying a clip into Kyle.

    I hope, like Sandmann, he'll sue the Media for defamation when he was completely acting within the law of self defense.
    Last edited by Daedius; 2020-09-02 at 06:40 PM.

  13. #13813
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I'm not making anything up... you don't need to wait for the blade to be 3 inches deep before its self defense and you don't need to be on the ground desperately wrestling for control of a gun either.

    I am sorry these seems beyond your comprehension.
    You literally argued that Rittenhouse does not have psychic mind-reading powers and so should have special considerations.

    There was no "blade". Rosenbaum was not armed at all. There was no imminent threat of death or great bodily harm. You keep pretending that your overactive imagination means you can make up a bunch of imaginary nonsense and that means you can shoot whoever you want and it's "self defense".

    The facts are that there was no blade.
    The facts are there was no gun, other than Rittenhouse's (for the first shooting, at least).
    Making up new "facts" means you're lying about the facts to present your fantasies as if they were reality, and that's not how anything works. You don't get to make shit like that up. Your imagination is not relevant.

  14. #13814
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Yes that is disgusting, and I'm sure many Police disagree with him. Had to stop with the TYT follow up though, ain't listening to their tripe.

    On a side note, certainly doesn't help when the DA of Portland refuses to process rioters on criminal charges whom end up back on the streets to commit more rioting.
    Leave retarded Bill Murray alone.

  15. #13815
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    There doesn't seem to be anything widely available that contradicts their version of events.
    Besides the videos and the dead bodies you know small details.

  16. #13816
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Kyle is going to be exonerated... overwhelming evidence clear as day it was 100% self-defense in all instances of his shootings... at no point was he the instigator, yet the left-wing media has portrayed him as "going on a rampage". People claiming he illegally brought a firearm over, said firearm was from a friend of his in Wisconsin so it didn't travel across states. At best he'll probably get a misdemeanor for something.

    I hope, like Sandmann, he'll sue the Media for defamation when he was completely acting within the law.
    Except he wasn't. He crossed stated lines illegally carrying a weapon he was not allowed to be carrying. He was a willing combatant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Besides the videos and the dead bodies you know small details.
    He knows jack shit. We know this every time he posts anything here.

  17. #13817
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Kyle is going to be exonerated... overwhelming evidence clear as day it was 100% self-defense in all instances of his shootings... at no point was he the instigator, yet the left-wing media has portrayed him as "going on a rampage". People claiming he illegally brought a firearm over, said firearm was from a friend of his in Wisconsin so it didn't travel across states. At best he'll probably get a misdemeanor for something.

    I hope, like Sandmann, he'll sue the Media for defamation when he was completely acting within the law.
    Eyewitness testimony states that Rittenhouse was handling his weapon incompetently and putting people at risk, which would have justified someone disarming him.
    At no point was Rittenhouse facing threat of imminent death or great bodily harm, with Rosenbaum. Lethal force in self defense could not be justified there.
    The second incident involved weapons, but that was a case of bystanders trying to take down an active shooter; they are the ones acting in defense of themselves and others, not Rittenhouse.

    Claiming he got the gun from a friend is a major issue, since that makes his friend an accessory, and doesn't mean Rittenhouse was entitled to carry the weapon.

    Again; if this was self defense, Rittenhouse was obliged to immediately turn himself in to the police. If the riot cops are too busy to take his statement and whatnot, he was obliged to go to the local PD. He did not do this. He fled the State, instead. That's a clear demonstration of mens rea, especially when after he'd killed Rosenbaum, he called a friend (not the police) and is clearly audible on video saying he'd just killed someone, so he can't even claim he didn't know what he'd done until later.

    He killed two people and maimed a third and fled the scene and the State. You don't do that without an understanding that you're guilty of a crime. This alone is likely all that needs to be cited in court to shut down any claim of self defense.
    Last edited by Endus; 2020-09-02 at 06:43 PM.

  18. #13818
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    Except he wasn't. He crossed stated lines illegally carrying a weapon he was not allowed to be carrying. He was a willing combatant.
    And, per the Daily Caller reporter who provided statements for the criminal complaint, he was handling his weapon very poorly which would indicate that he was likely waving it around or pointing it at people, which absolutely presents a threat to protesters that they can claim motivated their actions in self defense of what appeared to be an unstable kid with a gun.

  19. #13819
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    It's a cool picture but is there a movement asking for democrats to denounce violence? The most I've seen is people begging the DA of the afflicted cities to press charges.
    You should ask Trump, because this is about him and Kyle, not any movements.
    Communism will win.

  20. #13820
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Eyewitness testimony states that Rittenhouse was handling his weapon incompetently and putting people at risk, which would have justified someone disarming him.
    At no point was Rittenhouse facing threat of imminent death or great bodily harm, with Rosenbaum. Lethal force in self defense could not be justified there.
    The second incident involved weapons, but that was a case of bystanders trying to take down an active shooter; they are the ones acting in defense of themselves and others, not Rittenhouse.

    Claiming he got the gun from a friend is a major issue, since that makes his friend an accessory, and doesn't mean Rittenhouse was entitled to carry the weapon.

    Again; if this was self defense, Rittenhouse was obliged to immediately turn himself in to the police. If the riot cops are too busy to take his statement and whatnot, he was obliged to go to the local PD. He did not do this. He fled the State, instead. That's a clear demonstration of mens rea, especially when after he'd killed Rosenbaum, he called a friend (not the police) and is clearly audible on video saying he'd just killed someone, so he can't even claim he didn't know what he'd done until later.

    He killed two people and maimed a third and fled the scene and the State. You don't do that without an understanding that you're guilty of a crime. This alone is likely all that needs to be cited in court to shut down any claim of self defense.
    I would like to say Thank you for expressing why exactly Kyle's case is not an open and shut self defense claim people think it is. People don't understand that self defense is a claim and needs to be proven in a court of law where it will be challenged by the facts of the case.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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