Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Endus]

How did he end up on the ground then? We can disagree on things and be civil.

You can stop lying about the facts, and then I'll stop pointing out that you're lying about the facts.

Me pointing that out is not "uncivil". I'm not calling you names, I'm simply pointing out what you're doing.

Rittenhouse tripped. It doesn't appear there's even anyone within 10-15 feet of him at the time he tripped, if you actually bother to watch the video.

He only shot the person chasing him initially, and only shot the people tackling him, I would call them the aggressors.

And doing so is an attempt to mislead, fundamentally, since "who was the aggressor" is not a question that's even particularly relevant and cannot possibly justify Rittenhouse's use of lethal force, in the first shooting. And in the second, given that Rittenhouse was an active shooter who'd already killed someone, it's crystal clear that he's the aggressor.

[BlackDruid96]

This is an abject, transparent lie that not a single one of the videos support.

He fell all on his own, stop lying.

I miss understood and really thought he was knocked down by a skateboard, being uninformed and lying are not the same. Please next time just simply point out to a video and explain it to me instead of saying I am lying. There is no reason to be aggressive, I don't even know you.

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You can stop lying about the facts, and then I'll stop pointing out that you're lying about the facts.

Me pointing that out is not "uncivil". I'm not calling you names, I'm simply pointing out what you're doing.

Rittenhouse tripped. It doesn't appear there's even anyone within 10-15 feet of him at the time he tripped, if you actually bother to watch the video.



And doing so is an attempt to mislead, fundamentally, since "who was the aggressor" is not a question that's even particularly relevant and cannot possibly justify Rittenhouse's use of lethal force, in the first shooting. And in the second, given that Rittenhouse was an active shooter who'd already killed someone, it's crystal clear that he's the aggressor.

You are being mean I am trying to understand and instead of saying why you disagree you shout lying. Can we just be friendly with each other and discuss ?

The court will decide if he has the right to use lethal force but I seen videos of Robert chasing Kyle before Kyle turn and shot, I think the law will be on his side. I guess we will find out in a year or two since the court system is rather slow.

[Belize]

I miss understood and really thought he was knocked down by a skateboard, being uninformed and lying are not the same. Please next time just simply point out to a video and explain it to me instead of saying I am lying. There is no reason to be aggressive, I don't even know you.

Staying uniformed after being corrected multiple times is willful ignorance on the same level as lying.

No amount of sealioning from your part changes that.

[Endus]

I miss understood and really thought he was knocked down by a skateboard, being uninformed and lying are not the same. Please next time just simply point out to a video and explain it to me instead of saying I am lying. There is no reason to be aggressive, I don't even know you.

This is not "aggressive".

You made a statement that was factually incorrect based on willful ignorance of the facts, and have tried to make it everyone else's responsibility to inform you. It isn't their responsibility. It's yours.

Choosing to build up a position based in willful ignorance is, pretty much, the definition of lying. Take some personal responsibility for your own poor conduct, and try to not make the same mistakes moving forward, rather than trying to passive-aggressively shame those who won't put up with bad faith posting.

You are being mean I am trying to understand and instead of saying why you disagree you shout lying. Can we just be friendly with each other and discuss ?

Not when you're going to push disinformation and falsehoods about the case, no. You chose to be unfriendly out the gate. You didn't come here asking for information, you came here making firm assertions as to what happened and how people should have responded.

The court will decide if he has the right to use lethal force but I seen videos of Robert chasing Kyle before Kyle turn and shot, I think the law will be on his side. I guess we will find out in a year or two since the court system is rather slow.

See? Like this.

The law in Wisconsin does not support the use of lethal force in self defense unless you have reasonable grounds to believe you're facing imminent death or great bodily harm. Someone chasing you does not pose such a threat.

You are, again, making firm assertions that there's some uncertainty on this point, to expect that your opinion should be granted equal consideration to those of us who do know what the law says, and that's "unfriendly", right off the bat. You're not engaging in good faith and you're not being polite and pleasant. You're pushing bad arguments and then trying to tone police when people point that out.

[BlackDruid96]

This is not "aggressive".

You made a statement that was factually incorrect based on willful ignorance of the facts, and have tried to make it everyone else's responsibility to inform you. It isn't their responsibility. It's yours.

Choosing to build up a position based in willful ignorance is, pretty much, the definition of lying. Take some personal responsibility for your own poor conduct, and try to not make the same mistakes moving forward, rather than trying to passive-aggressively shame those who won't put up with bad faith posting.



Not when you're going to push disinformation and falsehoods about the case, no. You chose to be unfriendly out the gate. You didn't come here asking for information, you came here making firm assertions as to what happened and how people should have responded.



See? Like this.

The law in Wisconsin does not support the use of lethal force in self defense unless you have reasonable grounds to believe you're facing imminent death or great bodily harm. Someone chasing you does not pose such a threat.

You are, again, making firm assertions that there's some uncertainty on this point, to expect that your opinion should be granted equal consideration to those of us who do know what the law says, and that's "unfriendly", right off the bat. You're not engaging in good faith and you're not being polite and pleasant. You're pushing bad arguments and then trying to tone police when people point that out.

The courts will decide, I feel Kyle has a real case since the Robert earlier had video of him being aggressive shouting "shoot me Nword" over and over then in another video he threw something at him as he chased him. That is the very definition of self defense.

[Endus]

The courts will decide, I feel Kyle has a real case since the Robert earlier had video of him being aggressive shouting "shoot me Nword" over and over then in another video he threw something at him as he chased him. That is the very definition of self defense.

Taunting armed militia types is not "aggressive".

And throwing a plastic baggie at someone isn't going to justify them shooting you in the head. So no; it's not "the definition of self defense". This is where you make shit up and demand that your baseless opinion be given equal consideration as the actual self defense laws of Wisconsin.

[KaPe]

The courts will decide, I feel Kyle has a real case since the Robert earlier had video of him being aggressive shouting "shoot me Nword" over and over then in another video he threw something at him as he chased him. That is the very definition of self defense.

Unless said thrown object has split Kyle's head wide open and Rosenbaum was about to finish him off - no, it's not. Who knows, maybe that's the image Rittenhouse had in his head, so he thought he had to shoot scary black man, but all the videos show that he wasn't even hurt at that point. Mean words and a plastic bag does not make for immediate and lethal threat that would warrant such response.

[BlackDruid96]

Taunting armed militia types is not "aggressive".

And throwing a plastic baggie at someone isn't going to justify them shooting you in the head. So no; it's not "the definition of self defense". This is where you make shit up and demand that your baseless opinion be given equal consideration as the actual self defense laws of Wisconsin.

If I taunted you to shoot me and then I chased you and threw something at you, you wouldn't find that aggressive?

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Unless said thrown object has split Kyle's head wide open and Rosenbaum was about to finish him off - no, it's not. Who knows, maybe that's the image Rittenhouse had in his head, so he thought he had to shoot scary black man, but all the videos show that he wasn't even hurt at that point. Mean words and a plastic bag does not make for immediate and lethal threat that would warrant such response.

He didn't shoot a black man...

[Zan15]

I miss understood and really thought he was knocked down by a skateboard, being uninformed and lying are not the same. Please next time just simply point out to a video and explain it to me instead of saying I am lying. There is no reason to be aggressive, I don't even know you.

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You are being mean I am trying to understand and instead of saying why you disagree you shout lying. Can we just be friendly with each other and discuss ?

The court will decide if he has the right to use lethal force but I seen videos of Robert chasing Kyle before Kyle turn and shot, I think the law will be on his side. I guess we will find out in a year or two since the court system is rather slow.

Hey why did you chase that Sandy Hook shooter and try to attack him!!!!
He was only trying to defend himself....as he shot more people....after killing 20 3rd graders.... you ever been around 3rd graders, they are very aggressive!



could you imagine applying your logic to any of the other highly publicized shootings??

[BlackDruid96]

Hey why did you chase that Sandy Hook shooter and try to attack him!!!!
He was only trying to defend himself....as he shot more people....after killing 20 3rd graders.... you ever been around 3rd graders, they are very aggressive!



could you imagine applying your logic to any of the other highly publicized shootings??

I don't see how you can compare someone who went to a school and brought a gun in a gun free zone to shoot children to what happened here.

[Endus]

If I taunted you to shoot me and then I chased you and threw something at you, you wouldn't find that aggressive?

The taunting? Not in the least.

The chasing? Sure, but not in a way that I'd feel justified shooting them. That's how a panicky fear-driven murderer thinks. I'd either avoid them, or at best, push them off of me if they grab at me.

[BlackDruid96]

The taunting? Not in the least.

The chasing? Sure, but not in a way that I'd feel justified shooting them. That's how a panicky fear-driven murderer thinks.

If someone wearing a face mask chased me and I had a way to defend myself, I would defend myself too, I do not desire to harm anyone but I believe self preservation would kick in.

[Endus]

If someone wearing a face mask chased me and I had a way to defend myself, I would defend myself too, I do not desire to harm anyone but I believe self preservation would kick in.

First, you can take the "wearing a face mask" bit and shove it. There's a fucking pandemic on. Someone without a mask is a greater threat to you than someone with a mask on.

And to repeat; the issue is not "can you defend yourself". It's "can you defend yourself with lethal force". And in this case, clearly not. That would be completely ridiculous and thus, obvious murder. Hence the charges.

You keep acting like the law doesn't require proportionality of response, when it does. Stop ignoring the law.

[BlackDruid96]

First, you can take the "wearing a face mask" bit and shove it. There's a fucking pandemic on. Someone without a mask is a greater threat to you than someone with a mask on..

Robert did not have a face mask on in the initial conversation, it was only after he decided to attack Kyle that he tied his shirt around his head.

Since Robert did not have a facemask on, does that mean he was a greater threat to Kyle at the start?

[Endus]

Robert did not have a face mask on in the initial conversation, it was only after he decided to attack Kyle that he tied his shirt around his head.

Since Robert did not have a facemask on, does that mean he was a greater threat to Kyle at the start?

Yeah, you're not here to participate in good faith, at all. This is dishonest bullcrap gamesmanship; you have zero interest in contributing honestly to discussion. You're just here to defend a white nationalist murderer.

Whether Rosenbaum has a mask on or not is irrelevant.
Whether Rosenbaum had reason to chase Rittenhouse or not fundamentally does not matter, as chasing him does not constitute a threat of imminent death or great bodily harm.

You're just victim-blaming to protect and defend murder.

[BlackDruid96]

Yeah, you're not here to participate in good faith, at all. This is dishonest bullcrap gamesmanship; you have zero interest in contributing honestly to discussion. You're just here to defend a white nationalist murderer.

Whether Rosenbaum has a mask on or not is irrelevant.
Whether Rosenbaum had reason to chase Rittenhouse or not fundamentally does not matter, as chasing him does not constitute a threat of imminent death or great bodily harm.

You're just victim-blaming to protect and defend murder.

If a guy yelled at me telling me to shoot him and he didn't have a facemask on, this tells me is not worried about COVID. But then he covers his face with his shirt, and not an approved covid mask and he starts to chase me, this doesn't tell me he is worried about COVID, he is out to harm me and also he's breaking social distancing rules. This is very relevant to the conversation, don't you think?

[Endus]

If a guy yelled at me telling me to shoot him and he didn't have a facemask on, this tells me is not worried about COVID. But then he covers his face with his shirt, and not an approved covid mask and he starts to chase me, this doesn't tell me he is worried about COVID, he is out to harm me and also he's breaking social distancing rules. This is very relevant to the conversation, don't you think?

No. It isn't, and it demonstrates your bad faith intent by suggesting that it does.

Your argument is exactly the same as that of a rapist, arguing that his victim was "dressed like a whore and acted slutty". Literally not different in any way; the crime is justified because of how the victim dressed and behaved.

[BlackDruid96]

No. It isn't, and it demonstrates your bad faith intent by suggesting that it does.

Your argument is exactly the same as that of a rapist, arguing that his victim was "dressed like a whore and acted slutty". Literally not different in any way; the crime is justified because of how the victim dressed and behaved.

That is no way shape for form the same type of argument, a woman doesn't say rape me, tie her shirt over her head then chase the man. This is a very terrible comparison and very upsetting that you would even compare rape to what happened.

Robert said shoot me Nword, then later tied his shirt around his head then he chased Kyle, Kyle was the victim and you are the one victim shaming. Just because you won the fight doesn't mean you're the aggressor, Kyle was not the one chasing Robert.

[Endus]

That is no way shape for form the same type of argument, a woman doesn't say rape me, tie her shirt over her head then chase the man. This is a very terrible comparison and very upsetting that you would even compare rape to what happened.

If she did, and you raped her, you'd be a rapist and should go to prison.

See how this works?

Robert said shoot me Nword, then later tied his shirt around his head then he chased Kyle, Kyle was the victim and you are the one victim shaming. Just because you won the fight doesn't mean you're the aggressor, Kyle was not the one chasing Robert.

Horse. Shit.

Sure, Rosenbaum was probably being racist. Doesn't warrant him being shot in the head.
Sure, Rosenbaum chased Rittenhouse. Doesn't warrant him being shot in the head.

That's what you're shitposting about. It doesn't matter if Rosenbaum was a good guy or was acting appropriately. It didn't justify shooting him in the head. That makes him the victim, and Rittenhouse a violent murderer.

There's a lot of this going on. Claims that any threat can be met with lethal force. That's false. Objectively and definitively not true, according to the law. You can either accept that, or you can continue being wrong and pushing bullshit to defend a murderer. And we'll keep pointing that out.

[BlackDruid96]

If she did, and you raped her, you'd be a rapist and should go to prison.

See how this works?



Horse. Shit.

Sure, Rosenbaum was probably being racist. Doesn't warrant him being shot in the head.
Sure, Rosenbaum chased Rittenhouse. Doesn't warrant him being shot in the head.

That's what you're shitposting about. It doesn't matter if Rosenbaum was a good guy or was acting appropriately. It didn't justify shooting him in the head. That makes him the victim, and Rittenhouse a violent murderer.

There's a lot of this going on. Claims that any threat can be met with lethal force. That's false. Objectively and definitively not true, according to the law. You can either accept that, or you can continue being wrong and pushing bullshit to defend a murderer. And we'll keep pointing that out.

If someone comes with their face covered and tried to physically assault you and you stop them that's self defense, that's how that works my friend.