1. #14921
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Just so we are clear you are saying you can get a gun legally and go to any state and patrol the streets looking for crime and if anything happens you can claim self defense after inserting yourself in this situation. What part of what you are describing isn't vigilantism? Is Rittenhouse not a vigilante because he wasn't wearing a costume
    Holy fuck man. You need to take a break from creating all these straw men.

    It is not illegal to carry walk around with an open carry, in an open carry state (having appropriate documentation, even if it isn't your state), and walk around town looking for people breaking the law. Up until that point, nothing has been done wrong. It's stupid, and a waste of time, but it's that persons time to waste.

    Now, if an altercation occurs, then it comes down to the circumstances of what actually happened.

  2. #14922
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    Holy fuck man. You need to take a break from creating all these straw men.

    It is not illegal to carry walk around with an open carry, in an open carry state (having appropriate documentation, even if it isn't your state), and walk around town looking for people breaking the law. Up until that point, nothing has been done wrong. It's stupid, and a waste of time, but it's that persons time to waste.

    Now, if an altercation occurs, then it comes down to the circumstances of what actually happened.
    Let’s end it and bring it back to the original point of the thread... why do we need police? Fuck reform... we have children without any training doing a better job...

    Edit: Just a reminder... not only didn’t the person who got shot, that lead to these protests not expressing his open carry rights... but, was shot because cops thought he reached for a knife... as his children watched...

    Edit 2: If he is found guilty of murder... are you gonna riot for justice reform?
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-09-09 at 02:06 AM.
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  3. #14923
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Let’s end it and bring it back to the original point of the thread... why do we need police? Fuck reform... we have children without any training doing a better job...
    Reform is stupid frankly. The fbi admits many police departments have white nationalist issues with police working with, being from, or being sympathetic to hate groups.

    The fuck is police reform going to do if we don’t address the whole police working with terror threats problem. Which the fbi also views as they can’t do so much because of first amendment. Because what’s wrong with cops exercising power on people. Whole being nazis

  4. #14924
    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    Holy fuck man. You need to take a break from creating all these straw men.

    It is not illegal to carry walk around with an open carry, in an open carry state (having appropriate documentation, even if it isn't your state), and walk around town looking for people breaking the law. Up until that point, nothing has been done wrong. It's stupid, and a waste of time, but it's that persons time to waste.

    Now, if an altercation occurs, then it comes down to the circumstances of what actually happened.
    You are calling straw men because every time I describe what happened it makes you look bad for defending it. But you just agreed with me nothing wrong with patrolling around in other states with your gun looking for crime. So why do we need police officers? Since these "patrollers" are fine and dandy. They can even be judge jury and executioner like Rittenhouse.

  5. #14925
    Hey guys never forget.....

    Neighborhood watch groups (and the police) tell neighborhood watchers to not carry a weapon when on patrol and to only observe and report, but its perfectly legal to walk around armed on patrol as long as you are legally allowed to have that weapon...and that is the new argument FOR Rittenhouse not being a vigilante and more like a neighborhood watch because he was illegally armed while on "patrol" after he admitted on video he was there not to merely observe but put himself in harm's way.

    You literally cannot make this stuff up.
    When I despair, I remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible.
    But in the end, they always fall. Always.- Mahatma Gandhi


  6. #14926
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Reform is stupid frankly. The fbi admits many police departments have white nationalist issues with police working with, being from, or being sympathetic to hate groups.

    The fuck is police reform going to do if we don’t address the whole police working with terror threats problem. Which the fbi also views as they can’t do so much because of first amendment. Because what’s wrong with cops exercising power on people. Whole being nazis
    I’m frankly tired of this shit... these protests were because an unarmed man was shot multiple times by police, because they thought he was a threat... this thread is now about a kid that hung out with police, while carrying an automatic weapon, then was not stopped by police after shooting 3 people... being justified.

    What this thread is now, proves what this thread started out being. There are 2 different justice systems in this country and it’s not just systemic, it’s cultural.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  7. #14927
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Lol. All the neighborhood watch organizations say don't carry a gun. The cops say don't carry a gun when on watch duty. But you want to make some stupid fucking argument that I implied it is illegal to carry a gun on watch duty? Fucking really?

    I mean, the fucking mental gymnastics it is taking to get there is beyond absurd.

    So again as I said, community watch programs are not armed. And as you said, their job is to observe and report. Kyle, said in an interview minutes before he shot people, that he was there purposely TO PUT HIMSELF IN HARM'S WAY.

    To recap, community watch programs aren't armed and only watch, and that is your big fucking argument for Ritterhosue how was armed and interfered? Cool, please keep lecturing me.
    Yes, the mental gymnastics you use are indeed impressive. Armed community watch programs don't exist. Nope. Not here. Or here.

    If you want to keep throwing around the quote about Kyle stating he was there purposely to put himself in harm's way, you could at least get the quote right to not sound like an idiot.

    If there's somebody hurt, I'm running into harm's way and that's why I have my rifle, to protect myself obviously.
    But hey, accuracy hasn't been your strong point this whole discussion.

  8. #14928
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    But hey, accuracy hasn't been your strong point this whole discussion.
    Yeah, although ignoring shit seems to be yours. Can I say I’m going to jump into harms way and bring a gun to protect my self, as self defense? Can I go out of my way to seek harm, to the point that I need to bring a gun, then claim self defense?

    Edit: Do you often defend others in self defense? (By others, I mean property as well.)
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  9. #14929
    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    Yes, the mental gymnastics you use are indeed impressive. Armed community watch programs don't exist. Nope. Not here. Or here.

    If you want to keep throwing around the quote about Kyle stating he was there purposely to put himself in harm's way, you could at least get the quote right to not sound like an idiot.



    But hey, accuracy hasn't been your strong point this whole discussion.
    Do you really think you proved your point and not mine?
    When I despair, I remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible.
    But in the end, they always fall. Always.- Mahatma Gandhi


  10. #14930
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    You are calling straw men because every time I describe what happened it makes you look bad for defending it. But you just agreed with me nothing wrong with patrolling around in other states with your gun looking for crime. So why do we need police officers? Since these "patrollers" are fine and dandy. They can even be judge jury and executioner like Rittenhouse.
    It's a straw man because you take part of what I say, and then tack something completely different that I did not say. I at no point said " if anything happens you can claim self defense after inserting yourself in this situation". That was entirely you with your dishonest, strawman shitposting. The fact you can't even see that tells me You're not willing to have an honest discussion, so have a good day.

  11. #14931
    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    This is the poorly drafted law part. The intent of the law is likely for hunting. The wording of the law however, just outlines that if you're 17, and have the certificate of accomplishment to obtain hunting approval, then section 948.60 doesn't apply. It doesn't specifically state "only for hunting", "while you are hunting", or anything like that. Just if you have the certificate of accomplisment, you're good. That's why it's badly worded.
    Sounds like a loop hole that was left open for reasons exactly like this. Wild how many laws in the US will let you get away with actual murder.

    Either way, this is just highlighting how backward US law is and why justice is a pipe dream over there
    Last edited by Josuke; 2020-09-09 at 02:24 AM.

  12. #14932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    It's a straw man because you take part of what I say, and then tack something completely different that I did not say. I at no point said " if anything happens you can claim self defense after inserting yourself in this situation". That was entirely you with your dishonest, strawman shitposting. The fact you can't even see that tells me You're not willing to have an honest discussion, so have a good day.
    What? That’s literally what the guy did... he had his mom drive him there and he was so scared, he brought a gun. Why did he bring the gun? To protect him self? Because he was scared and was going to use the gun, or because he knew the future and saw the need?

    You are arguing premeditated self defense... think about that...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    Sounds like a loop hole that was left open for reasons exactly like this.
    Can you find a single time such a loophole has been used outside of hunting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    Either way, this is just highlighting how backward US law is.
    Can we not just trust randoms on the Internet? If there is no precedent for it being used like this, there is no loophole and it’s randoms grasping at straws.
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-09-09 at 02:25 AM.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  13. #14933
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Yeah, although ignoring shit seems to be yours. Can I say I’m going to jump into harms way and bring a gun to protect my self, as self defense? Can I go out of my way to seek harm, to the point that I need to bring a gun, then claim self defense?

    Edit: Do you often defend others in self defense? (By others, I mean property as well.)
    I ignore most of the things you post because you're either deliberately asking out of context questions, or they are questions I've already answered in other posts that you clearly can't be bothered to read.

    Provide the details of the situation, and I'll let you know. There is no blanket "yes it is self-defense" or "no it is not self-defense". As I said, for this specific case, based on the evidence released so far, I think it is more likely that a jury would find him not guilty. There are a lot of details we still don't know yet. It wouldn't completely surprise me if he was also found guilty. Regardless of which way it is found though, I still think they need to change open carry rules, and fix the ambiguous area in Wisconsin gun laws specifically.

    I have in the past guarded both people, and property, as well as stepped into situations where someone is being attacked. Both for personal reasons, and for work. I don't own or care for guns though, and I am careful when dealing with people the level of physicality to use.

  14. #14934
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    What? That’s literally what the guy did... he had his mom drive him there and he was so scared, he brought a gun. Why did he bring the gun? To protect him self? Because he was scared and was going to use the gun, or because he knew the future and saw the need?

    You are arguing premeditated self defense... think about that...

    - - - Updated - - -



    Can you find a single time such a loophole has been used outside of hunting?
    Loop holes regarding the handling/use of weapons are common in the US and pretty routinely used to justify a murder to a jury.

    Think about all those people who got guns through gun show loop holes who went on to kill someone. They're legally owning a gun because of a shitty loop hole which let's people sell guns to others without a background check.

    I dont know if this particular law has been used to justify murder prior to this (though I'd be surprised if it hadn't)
    Last edited by Josuke; 2020-09-09 at 02:30 AM.

  15. #14935
    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    I have in the past guarded both people, and property, as well as stepped into situations where someone is being attacked. Both for personal reasons, and for work. I don't own or care for guns though, and I am careful when dealing with people the level of physicality to use.
    None of those things is what happened. Rioitenhouse and the rest of the white nationalist militia he showed up with were vigilantes. Why are you struggling with this very simple concept?
    When I despair, I remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible.
    But in the end, they always fall. Always.- Mahatma Gandhi


  16. #14936
    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    Sounds like a loop hole that was left open for reasons exactly like this. Wild how many laws in the US will let you get away with actual murder.

    Either way, this is just highlighting how backward US law is and why justice is a pipe dream over there
    I wouldn't say it was there exactly for a reason like this, I would just say they assumed the "intent" was there, even though it is worded poorly. Pretty easy fix, and still could be interpreted by a judge that it is illegal. Regardless of the outcome, they should really tighten it up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    None of those things is what happened. Rioitenhouse and the rest of the white nationalist militia he showed up with were vigilantes. Why are you struggling with this very simple concept?
    Because you keep equating the word vigilante with somehow stripping them of protection from laws. This article summarizes a lot about how I feel this will go.

  17. #14937
    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    It's a straw man because you take part of what I say, and then tack something completely different that I did not say. I at no point said " if anything happens you can claim self defense after inserting yourself in this situation". That was entirely you with your dishonest, strawman shitposting. The fact you can't even see that tells me You're not willing to have an honest discussion, so have a good day.
    No it is not because that is what Rittenhouse is claiming and you are standing in his corner. It's funny watching you run away when I describe the situation you have spend pages so vehemently defending.

  18. #14938
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Hey look! The shitbag cops of Louisville Kentucky continue to lie about the Breonna Taylor case.

    You know how they claimed there weren't any body cameras? We've now got photos showing that one of them was in fact wearing a camera.

    So either they wiped the footage or intentionally shut it off before they committee murder.

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  19. #14939
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    So either they wiped the footage or intentionally shut it off before they committee murder.
    Doesn't matter much either way. They're obviously shitbags. They tried to fucking BRIBE HER EX to lie about her and say she was part of his drug ring, to which he told them to fuck off.

  20. #14940
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Hey look! The shitbag cops of Louisville Kentucky continue to lie about the Breonna Taylor case.

    You know how they claimed there weren't any body cameras? We've now got photos showing that one of them was in fact wearing a camera.

    So either they wiped the footage or intentionally shut it off before they committee murder.
    In a reasonable world, protecting those fuckos from prosecution would make you an accessory after the fact. At a minimum.

    It's also kind of at the point where maybe the USA needs a federal task force whose sole job is to prosecute police abuse of force. Take it right out of the hands of local DAs entirely. The feds don't need to worry about cooperation with local PDs, in their professional conduct.

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