1. #14941
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's also kind of at the point where maybe the USA needs a federal task force whose sole job is to prosecute police abuse of force. Take it right out of the hands of local DAs entirely.
    ...I feel like that's something that would need a pretty good justification for why it wasn't the case all along. It screams conflict of interest to have prosecutors handling the cases of members of law enforcement they'd otherwise be working with.

  2. #14942
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Doesn't first degree imply premeditation or something?
    Perhaps it was - after all, y’all seem intent on trying to justify Rittenhouse’s actions by implying he knew Rosenbaum was a former convict or w/e so that makes it okay.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    Because you keep equating the word vigilante with somehow stripping them of protection from laws.
    That's quite a complaint coming as it does from the folk carrying water for police by equating the word 'rioter' with stripping protesters of their First and Fourth Amendment protections. *sips tea*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    I worked as a security guard during university. The first thing that was stated during the extensive 4 hour training (where no certification or licence was given) was that you are not law enforcement. You have no special powers. Your job is to observe and report, and as a last resort, under very specific circumstances, detain. Hired or not, you have no special rights. Community watches do not get special stand your ground laws in the vast majority of cases. They're covered by the same laws a citizen is.

    No, a person should not pick up a a gun they don't have a license for. That hasn't been proven in this case. If it was illegal, he should be charged. Those are laws. It has been pointed out several times already though that Wisconson has some badly drafted gun laws that have exemptions for 17 year olds.

    There is nothing illegal about a person "patrolling" the streets. What they do when something occurs determines if they are in violation of the law. Why is this so hard to understand?
    Tfw you bend backwards defending the cops so hard you enter "defund the police" territory, lol.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  3. #14943
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Nope no issues here in the Great U.S. of A. All peachy with our criminal Justice system and the training of police to view everything as an imminent threat on their lives.

    Luckily the kid seems to have lived, but what the fuck are they training police to become offensive or are they just not screening out the wrong people? Probably a combination of the two.
    Why do you even have police transporting people to hospitals? Are there absolutely no alternatives to specifically police crisis intervention teams in that location?

    It would work much better if you actually had alternative force that would be unarmed by default, only calling for police as last resort.

  4. #14944
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    Loop holes regarding the handling/use of weapons are common in the US and pretty routinely used to justify a murder to a jury.

    Think about all those people who got guns through gun show loop holes who went on to kill someone. They're legally owning a gun because of a shitty loop hole which let's people sell guns to others without a background check.

    I dont know if this particular law has been used to justify murder prior to this (though I'd be surprised if it hadn't)
    There is no loophole if it wasn’t used in prior cases and being asserted by Internet randoms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    I ignore most of the things you post because you're either deliberately asking out of context questions, or they are questions I've already answered in other posts that you clearly can't be bothered to read.
    Oh no, the questions are completely in context. In fact, far more on topic than defending a murderer in a police reform thread. The problem is that answering what I said, makes you or your argument completely irrational... depending on how you answer.

    Provide the details of the situation, and I'll let you know. There is no blanket "yes it is self-defense" or "no it is not self-defense". As I said, for this specific case, based on the evidence released so far, I think it is more likely that a jury would find him not guilty. There are a lot of details we still don't know yet. It wouldn't completely surprise me if he was also found guilty. Regardless of which way it is found though, I still think they need to change open carry rules, and fix the ambiguous area in Wisconsin gun laws specifically.
    Show me a single case using that “loophole”... you are arguing that details are not in, but he will use a hunting law, because you think it’s relevant and won’t be tossed out by the judge on the ridiculous nature of hunting humans. That’s called hypocrite...

    I have in the past guarded both people, and property, as well as stepped into situations where someone is being attacked. Both for personal reasons, and for work. I don't own or care for guns though, and I am careful when dealing with people the level of physicality to use.
    Than why do we need cops?
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  5. #14945
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Then fuck it, why stop there? Why not open yourself to the possibility that aliens came down, used embiggening rays to embiggen rats, trained them how to spell then made them send Rosenbaum encoded messages that told him to tackle Rittenhouse, steal his wallet and use what little money was in there to buy roses for the mayor??/; I mean why the hell not, amirite?

    You, Coolthulu, literally introduced that Kyle was tackled, then changed it to tripped then changed it to possibly tripped and you did it without a fucking shred of information indicating any of it. And instead of admitting it is not a possibility, because you queefed it into existence all on your own, you have the gall to get indignant with me because I'm calling bullshit on your...well...bullshit.
    Indigant? Please. If anything, you're losing your temper despite me indulging you, all the while refusing to answer my questions. You're spewing falsehoods, too: as soon as you said he wasn't tackled and his weapon wasn't touched, I gave in to your version:
    He was chased, he fell, some guy was on him, and this happened after a "get him" was yelled, along with other things I'm unable to hear/discern but were likely on the same wavelength.
    Despite that you went on an endless rant to have me "acknowledge" your version of the facts, which I again, I'm willing to entertain but not acknowledging since, as repeatedly said, I'm not informed nor invested enough and it's not my job anyway; judges, juries, defendants and prosecutors exist for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    I'm getting infracted by an American moderator on an American topic promoting/advocating weapons on a childrens forum, what else to expect on an American forum. I'm done here and i'm going to leave you one thing to remember:
    [extremely graphic picture of dead children]
    Hope you sleep well. With the lack of empathy the majority of you show i guess that won't be a problem. BB

  6. #14946
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    And community watch groups are organized by the community, and are unpaid.
    Rittenhouse was not part of that community, so it also does not apply.
    Communism will win.

  7. #14947
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    Despite that you went on an endless rant to have me "acknowledge" your version of the facts, which I again, I'm willing to entertain but not acknowledging since, as repeatedly said, I'm not informed nor invested enough and it's not my job anyway; judges, juries, defendants and prosecutors exist for that.
    This doesn’t mean anything... it’s a quagmire of contradictions.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  8. #14948
    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    Because you keep equating the word vigilante with somehow stripping them of protection from laws. This article summarizes a lot about how I feel this will go.
    Because he purposely put himself into a situation where he had to claim self defense. As Felya, succinctly said it is “premeditated self defense.”

    He didn’t happen upon the situation. He was neither asked nor paid to be there by any property owner or government entity or the community. He went there with express intent of putting himself into harm’s way. And did it all that while illegally armed and wearing gloves. The fled the scene and state.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    Indigant? Please. If anything, you're losing your temper despite me indulging you, all the while refusing to answer my questions. You're spewing falsehoods, too: as soon as you said he wasn't tackled and his weapon wasn't touched, I gave in to your version:

    Despite that you went on an endless rant to have me "acknowledge" your version of the facts, which I again, I'm willing to entertain but not acknowledging since, as repeatedly said, I'm not informed nor invested enough and it's not my job anyway; judges, juries, defendants and prosecutors exist for that.
    You haven’t indulged anything but your own made up scenario that he might have been tripped when neither video of either shooting nor any witness testimony says nor implies it. Are you close with Connal?
    When I despair, I remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible.
    But in the end, they always fall. Always.- Mahatma Gandhi


  9. #14949
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    You haven’t indulged anything but your own made up scenario that he might have been tripped when neither video of either shooting nor any witness testimony says nor implies it. Are you close with Connal?
    No, I didn't, I've already explained that here and you're conveniently still ignoring it, so at this point I can only assume you're trolling.
    Anyhow, what matters is that somehow he ended up on the ground. How is irrelevant. Who's Connal?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    I'm getting infracted by an American moderator on an American topic promoting/advocating weapons on a childrens forum, what else to expect on an American forum. I'm done here and i'm going to leave you one thing to remember:
    [extremely graphic picture of dead children]
    Hope you sleep well. With the lack of empathy the majority of you show i guess that won't be a problem. BB

  10. #14950
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Because he purposely put himself into a situation where he had to claim self defense. As Felya, succinctly said it is “premeditated self defense.”
    There is an easy argument against it... I’m a bit surprised defenders were not jumping on it... I was thinking about deleting, but figured I let it go.

    The bigger issue and the actual reason this argument can even be rationalized in context of OP, is what does this shooting mean for police reform? Every single person that acts like what this murderer did is justified, needs to answer a simple question... Why do we need cops?

    That’s the thing... I don’t think people who are defending this murderer, can describe the purpose of the police, without making this murderer seem guilty. It shouldn’t be this hard to answer, to the point of trying to argue it’s out of context to ask the purpose of police, in a police reform thread.

    You haven’t indulged anything but your own made up scenario that he might have been tripped when neither video of either shooting nor any witness testimony says nor implies it. Are you close with Connal?
    No, this was his return:
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/members...3-Tohu-wa-bohu

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    Who's Connal?
    Just a random that was a regular poster until earlier this year, when he deleted his account. He did return with a new name, if for some weird reason you would care... silly forum drama, you didn’t deserve it.

    Ask Theo and Angel of Riots, they discord with him, if you want to know more, without our biases.
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-09-09 at 12:23 PM.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  11. #14951
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Law and order folks.

    https://twitter.com/briantylercohen/...26619227254784

    Very fine people at these protests

    Last edited by Themius; 2020-09-09 at 12:33 PM.

  12. #14952
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Just a random that was a regular poster until earlier this year, when he deleted his account. He did return with a new name, if for some weird reason you would care... silly forum drama, you didn’t deserve it.

    Ask Theo and Angel of Riots, they discord with him, if you want to know more, without our biases.
    Thanks for the information but I see no reason why Bodakane thinks I would care. I mean, I do, he's out of arguments so he's trying to couple me with whatever other users he dislikes, but other than that I thought he was someone related to what's being discussed, not some forum user.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    I'm getting infracted by an American moderator on an American topic promoting/advocating weapons on a childrens forum, what else to expect on an American forum. I'm done here and i'm going to leave you one thing to remember:
    [extremely graphic picture of dead children]
    Hope you sleep well. With the lack of empathy the majority of you show i guess that won't be a problem. BB

  13. #14953
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Law and order folks.
    It was obviously self defense... let me misrepresent this hunting law, to show you can attack people running away, as self defense. It doesn’t say you can’t hunt humans... loophole!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    Thanks for the information but I see no reason why Bodakane thinks I would care. I mean, I do, he's out of arguments so he's trying to couple me with whatever other users he dislikes, but other than that I thought he was someone related to what's being discussed, not some forum user.
    I don’t know either... your posts are nothing alike...
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  14. #14954
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I don’t know either... your posts are nothing alike...
    Your cheap sarcasm is wasted, since I don't know how users those posts. I can guess they're alt-righters or at least perceived as such, because I fall into the "not a leftist hence a Nazi" category.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    I'm getting infracted by an American moderator on an American topic promoting/advocating weapons on a childrens forum, what else to expect on an American forum. I'm done here and i'm going to leave you one thing to remember:
    [extremely graphic picture of dead children]
    Hope you sleep well. With the lack of empathy the majority of you show i guess that won't be a problem. BB

  15. #14955
    The Insane Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    Your cheap sarcasm is wasted, since I don't know how users those posts. I can guess they're alt-righters or at least perceived as such, because I fall into the "not a leftist hence a Nazi" category.
    Well you got the self victimization part down pat.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
    Yo, don't mind my "street talk"

  16. #14956
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Well you got the self victimization part down pat.
    I wasn’t being sarcastic.... lol
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  17. #14957
    The Insane Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I wasn’t being sarcastic.... lol
    I know. For a person that English isn't their first language they are sure quick to assume your meaning without asking.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
    Yo, don't mind my "street talk"

  18. #14958
    Since people are too lazy here is Rittenhouse mid fall. Sorry if the image is shit quality I had to print screen, copy paste it into paint and then save it and upload it to imgur. He 100% tripped.
    No one is above the law! Not even the president!

  19. #14959
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Since people are too lazy here is Rittenhouse mid fall. Sorry if the image is shit quality I had to print screen, copy paste it into paint and then save it and upload it to imgur. He 100% tripped.
    Indeed, he tripped like a scared little girl being chased by the BBEG in a horror movie. Cept in this situation, he is the bad guy.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

  20. #14960
    The Insane Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Since people are too lazy here is Rittenhouse mid fall. Sorry if the image is shit quality I had to print screen, copy paste it into paint and then save it and upload it to imgur. He 100% tripped.
    [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/UIL2oWv.png?3[MG]
    OR...
    Antifa has invented invisibility cloaks!

    I'm sure the "self-defense" goalpost will be moved to something like "he was running because he feared for his life" or some other shit like that.

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