1. #15541
    Herald of the Titans Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    The mods have a lot on their plate these days. They will get to it. Honestly, ever since Thwart was removed, moderation has been really good. Props too Jester, Rozz and Flare. Seriously, the PoFo has been much better.
    Second this, they're really trying their best and it is getting better. And i say that even if i received one yesterday, which was to be honest: completely right and earned. Mea culpa

  2. #15542
    Quote Originally Posted by Soliloque View Post
    Which is what he was talking about.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Wait, if they're counter-protesting anti-BLM groups... they're violent BLM then?
    Reading and comprehension is hard for you I see.

  3. #15543
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Again, you're not stupid. They are. I don;t think it goes that deep for them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-dep...204016245.html



    I challenge any of you cop/Trump defenders to speak on this.
    WTF is wrong with the police. I just don't get it, because they don't want people to be angry at them either, yet there are seemingly quite a number, who are nothing but violent goons, some encouraged to behave like that with those "actions" with gift cards, or act, with absolutely no restrain against people, who are protesting police brutality.

  4. #15544
    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    WTF is wrong with the police. I just don't get it, because they don't want people to be angry at them either, yet there are seemingly quite a number, who are nothing but violent goons, some encouraged to behave like that with those "actions" with gift cards, or act, with absolutely no restrain against people, who are protesting police brutality.
    Like most people that are active in a cause, whether it be law and order, cancer awareness, defending the country or even veganism, they are in it ultimately for themselves and want thanks and recognition. They make whatever the cause is about them.
    When I despair, I remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible.
    But in the end, they always fall. Always.- Mahatma Gandhi


  5. #15545
    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    WTF is wrong with the police. I just don't get it, because they don't want people to be angry at them either, yet there are seemingly quite a number, who are nothing but violent goons, some encouraged to behave like that with those "actions" with gift cards, or act, with absolutely no restrain against people, who are protesting police brutality.
    If it is true, then they are some bad apples that need to be removed. The problem is numbers. People cherry pick incidents of people actions but pass it as the representative of the whole.

    Case in point, there are about 350,000,000 police interactions a year. We see people hype what, .01 percent? Out of that mini percent some are unjustifiable or plain evil and wrong. But people then say all police are the problem.

    If we used that same logic against the "protest gatherings", they stated that 93% were nonviolent. That means 7% were violent riots. That means all protesters are the problem.

    I don't agree with that. I believe there are protesters doing what they believe is right within the confines of the law, peaceful protests. I don't tarnish them with the same brush as the ones that are rioting and violent. Just like I don't agree that all police are the enemy of people or a problem.

    There are some police that are a problem, a smaller minority then people seem to want to admit. There are also some issues with training and some policies. But instead of trying to narrow down on the problems to fix, people are protesting/rioting looking for their removal.... sorry defunding. It has hit the point where the people wanting change are going to cause the problems to get worse.

    I mean come on.

    A city office deciding that police in that city can't use crowd control or nonlethal means like tear gas, batons, tasers, even choke holds. They are also not allowed to wear helmets. Think about that... Police going out with rules stating that the one way they have to stop a violator is their gun...... Yeah that will work out well.

    I am hoping eventually we will get back to more of, fixing the bad policies, waiting for all of the evidence, and holding the police accountable when they are in the wrong.

    Instead of ... man shot by police, protest happens, then riots over the shooting .... then video released showing the man chasing the cop, swinging the knife, refusing to stop, and yes, the cop (who was moving away) turns and fires at him protecting himself and the woman that called 911 who the man chased out of the apartment building.

  6. #15546
    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    If it is true, then they are some bad apples that need to be removed. The problem is numbers. People cherry pick incidents of people actions but pass it as the representative of the whole.

    Case in point, there are about 350,000,000 police interactions a year. We see people hype what, .01 percent? Out of that mini percent some are unjustifiable or plain evil and wrong. But people then say all police are the problem.

    If we used that same logic against the "protest gatherings", they stated that 93% were nonviolent. That means 7% were violent riots. That means all protesters are the problem.

    I don't agree with that. I believe there are protesters doing what they believe is right within the confines of the law, peaceful protests. I don't tarnish them with the same brush as the ones that are rioting and violent. Just like I don't agree that all police are the enemy of people or a problem.

    There are some police that are a problem, a smaller minority then people seem to want to admit. There are also some issues with training and some policies. But instead of trying to narrow down on the problems to fix, people are protesting/rioting looking for their removal.... sorry defunding. It has hit the point where the people wanting change are going to cause the problems to get worse.

    I mean come on.

    A city office deciding that police in that city can't use crowd control or nonlethal means like tear gas, batons, tasers, even choke holds. They are also not allowed to wear helmets. Think about that... Police going out with rules stating that the one way they have to stop a violator is their gun...... Yeah that will work out well.

    I am hoping eventually we will get back to more of, fixing the bad policies, waiting for all of the evidence, and holding the police accountable when they are in the wrong.

    Instead of ... man shot by police, protest happens, then riots over the shooting .... then video released showing the man chasing the cop, swinging the knife, refusing to stop, and yes, the cop (who was moving away) turns and fires at him protecting himself and the woman that called 911 who the man chased out of the apartment building.
    Oh fucking please. Do you really think this thread got to over 15,000 responses without one of you bringing up the bullshit "bad apple" lie.

    It has been said and debunked a 1000 time sin this thread alone. Bring a cogent and factual argument.
    When I despair, I remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible.
    But in the end, they always fall. Always.- Mahatma Gandhi


  7. #15547
    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    If it is true, then they are some bad apples that need to be removed. The problem is numbers. People cherry pick incidents of people actions but pass it as the representative of the whole.

    Case in point, there are about 350,000,000 police interactions a year. We see people hype what, .01 percent? Out of that mini percent some are unjustifiable or plain evil and wrong. But people then say all police are the problem.

    If we used that same logic against the "protest gatherings", they stated that 93% were nonviolent. That means 7% were violent riots. That means all protesters are the problem.

    I don't agree with that. I believe there are protesters doing what they believe is right within the confines of the law, peaceful protests. I don't tarnish them with the same brush as the ones that are rioting and violent. Just like I don't agree that all police are the enemy of people or a problem.

    There are some police that are a problem, a smaller minority then people seem to want to admit. There are also some issues with training and some policies. But instead of trying to narrow down on the problems to fix, people are protesting/rioting looking for their removal.... sorry defunding. It has hit the point where the people wanting change are going to cause the problems to get worse.

    I mean come on.

    A city office deciding that police in that city can't use crowd control or nonlethal means like tear gas, batons, tasers, even choke holds. They are also not allowed to wear helmets. Think about that... Police going out with rules stating that the one way they have to stop a violator is their gun...... Yeah that will work out well.

    I am hoping eventually we will get back to more of, fixing the bad policies, waiting for all of the evidence, and holding the police accountable when they are in the wrong.

    Instead of ... man shot by police, protest happens, then riots over the shooting .... then video released showing the man chasing the cop, swinging the knife, refusing to stop, and yes, the cop (who was moving away) turns and fires at him protecting himself and the woman that called 911 who the man chased out of the apartment building.
    Let's go ahead and just take one last dump on the "bad apples" argument.

    if officers were held accountable, and investigated by unbiased third parties, then that would be fine. The overwhelming data shows that to not be the case. Let's take Buffalo as an example. It wasn't just a couple bad apples who pushed down the old guy. It was those two bad apples, along with all the other bad apples standing around who moved past, did not render aid, and even tried to stop others from rendering aid. It was the department who objectively lied about what had happened, and it was the 50+ officers who quite their billets, because those first two officers got into trouble.

    For any fool who brings up the "bad apples," argument, you are either lying, or ignorant. It's especially hilarious, considering the actual expression where that comes from.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.

  8. #15548
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    The mods have a lot on their plate these days. They will get to it. Honestly, ever since Thwart was removed, moderation has been really good. Props too Jester, Rozz and Flare. Seriously, the PoFo has been much better.
    I know we aren't supposed to discuss moderation at all, but I'd like to second this gesture. Mods always get shit ever since I first created this account, but it's good to feel the need to praise the mods present since I, as well, honestly feel they have been doing a stellar job these past months.

  9. #15549
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    If it is true, then they are some bad apples that need to be removed. The problem is numbers. People cherry pick incidents of people actions but pass it as the representative of the whole.
    This is nonsense.

    The "bad apple" idiom goes "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch."

    And when those "bad apples" are not aggressively and immediately removed from duty and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for every single possible abuse of force, with the entire police force turning against them and providing them no support whatsoever, then we're not talking "some bad apples". Every member of that force is a "bad apple", just by virtue of supporting and defending the other "bad apples".

    This is kind of the point of the idiom.

  10. #15550
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    If it is true, then they are some bad apples that need to be removed. The problem is numbers. People cherry pick incidents of people actions but pass it as the representative of the whole.
    Now, compare this tact... to just denouncing assholes... when an asshole presents it self, instead of figuring it out what side they are on, to see if you should have a problem... just say you have a problem with it. Counter the Ednus post by saying they are not bad apples, but are just bad.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  11. #15551
    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    If it is true, then they are some bad apples that need to be removed. The problem is numbers. People cherry pick incidents of people actions but pass it as the representative of the whole.

    Case in point, there are about 350,000,000 police interactions a year. We see people hype what, .01 percent? Out of that mini percent some are unjustifiable or plain evil and wrong. But people then say all police are the problem.

    If we used that same logic against the "protest gatherings", they stated that 93% were nonviolent. That means 7% were violent riots. That means all protesters are the problem.

    I don't agree with that. I believe there are protesters doing what they believe is right within the confines of the law, peaceful protests. I don't tarnish them with the same brush as the ones that are rioting and violent. Just like I don't agree that all police are the enemy of people or a problem.

    There are some police that are a problem, a smaller minority then people seem to want to admit. There are also some issues with training and some policies. But instead of trying to narrow down on the problems to fix, people are protesting/rioting looking for their removal.... sorry defunding. It has hit the point where the people wanting change are going to cause the problems to get worse.

    I mean come on.

    A city office deciding that police in that city can't use crowd control or nonlethal means like tear gas, batons, tasers, even choke holds. They are also not allowed to wear helmets. Think about that... Police going out with rules stating that the one way they have to stop a violator is their gun...... Yeah that will work out well.

    I am hoping eventually we will get back to more of, fixing the bad policies, waiting for all of the evidence, and holding the police accountable when they are in the wrong.

    Instead of ... man shot by police, protest happens, then riots over the shooting .... then video released showing the man chasing the cop, swinging the knife, refusing to stop, and yes, the cop (who was moving away) turns and fires at him protecting himself and the woman that called 911 who the man chased out of the apartment building.
    The problem isn't just the bad apples though. It is his partner, it is the department, the Unions and the non-independent DAs and Internal Affairs divisions that give the cops the benefit of the doubt and skew entirely their way usually when it comes to excessive force complaints.

    All of this is called the "Blue Wall of Silence". You get rid of this and make investigations independent and transparent, and you might get some people back on your side. Otherwise, no, until the racists stop getting hired and the investigations aren't independent then it is nothing but bullshit.

  12. #15552
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    and make investigations independent and transparent.
    This is something that just astounds me. In Scotland we have the Police Investigations and Review Commissioner, an independent body set up to investigate allegations of misconduct by police officers. I know in England and Wales they have something similar. From the best of my knowledge, these bodies are made up mostly of lawyers, I think there is civilian representation too, the point being it is not entirely made up of cops. I genuinely did not know until recently that there wasn't something like this in the US, at least not in all states, and I was genuinely shocked by this.

    I am by no means an ACAB person. While I think these people are often legitimately angry and point out very real flaws, I think this position is at best childish, and the gymnastics that are often performed to justify this, often as being literally true (we can see people in here, people I consider intelligent and usually capable of nuanced thought make these claims) are just absurd, and we tend to see them come out with insane ideas like defund the police (even if you disagree with my contention that this is insane, it is certainly not unreasonable to object to this, only a zealot would assert this, sadly the overly emotional reasoning that comes out with the ACAB mean there are more than a few zealots) and even abolish the police (yes, I know it is only a minority that call for this, however they get a worrying amount of cover, if the reasons why this is a terrible idea aren't obvious to you, then I don't know what to say). People get heated and can make suggestions/demands that either tread close to, or flat out dive in head first into the crazy zone.

    However there are clearly very simple, straight forward things that can be done, that aren't insane or extremely detrimental to society, and an independent board that investigates police misconduct, that isn't made up of cops, that do not answer to the police, or to police unions and is transparent in its decision making is such a great example of this, I have yet to hear a reasonable objection to this suggestion, and it amazed me that this wasn't already in place. It is a policy that should get the backing of most reasonable people, regardless of which isle they are on. People who want to through their support behind the cops, having a body like this to better ensure decent and lawful behaviour and to help enforce standards in policing should welcome this. This is something that is much harder to abuse, much harder to succumb to corruption than internal investigations as they don't have the same conflict of interests or conflicted loyalties.

    Out of the reasonable suggestions I have heard, this ranks among the easiest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post


    Remember, legally no one sane takes Tucker Carlson seriously.

  13. #15553
    My understanding is that there are 3 types of police officers:

    Those who abuse their authority
    Those who do nothing to stop other officers from abusing their authority
    Those who actively try to stop other officers from abusing their authority.

    Not A CAB, just the first 2 groups. Which happens to be most cops.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Woods View Post
    LOL never change guys. I guess you won't because conservatism.
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  14. #15554
    Legendary! unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This is nonsense.

    The "bad apple" idiom goes "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch."

    And when those "bad apples" are not aggressively and immediately removed from duty and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for every single possible abuse of force, with the entire police force turning against them and providing them no support whatsoever, then we're not talking "some bad apples". Every member of that force is a "bad apple", just by virtue of supporting and defending the other "bad apples".

    This is kind of the point of the idiom.
    THANK you.
    Wall of LOLs

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  15. #15555
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehealadin View Post
    This is something that just astounds me. In Scotland we have the Police Investigations and Review Commissioner, an independent body set up to investigate allegations of misconduct by police officers. I know in England and Wales they have something similar. From the best of my knowledge, these bodies are made up mostly of lawyers, I think there is civilian representation too, the point being it is not entirely made up of cops. I genuinely did not know until recently that there wasn't something like this in the US, at least not in all states, and I was genuinely shocked by this.

    I am by no means an ACAB person. While I think these people are often legitimately angry and point out very real flaws, I think this position is at best childish, and the gymnastics that are often performed to justify this, often as being literally true (we can see people in here, people I consider intelligent and usually capable of nuanced thought make these claims) are just absurd, and we tend to see them come out with insane ideas like defund the police (even if you disagree with my contention that this is insane, it is certainly not unreasonable to object to this, only a zealot would assert this, sadly the overly emotional reasoning that comes out with the ACAB mean there are more than a few zealots) and even abolish the police (yes, I know it is only a minority that call for this, however they get a worrying amount of cover, if the reasons why this is a terrible idea aren't obvious to you, then I don't know what to say). People get heated and can make suggestions/demands that either tread close to, or flat out dive in head first into the crazy zone.

    However there are clearly very simple, straight forward things that can be done, that aren't insane or extremely detrimental to society, and an independent board that investigates police misconduct, that isn't made up of cops, that do not answer to the police, or to police unions and is transparent in its decision making is such a great example of this, I have yet to hear a reasonable objection to this suggestion, and it amazed me that this wasn't already in place. It is a policy that should get the backing of most reasonable people, regardless of which isle they are on. People who want to through their support behind the cops, having a body like this to better ensure decent and lawful behaviour and to help enforce standards in policing should welcome this. This is something that is much harder to abuse, much harder to succumb to corruption than internal investigations as they don't have the same conflict of interests or conflicted loyalties.

    Out of the reasonable suggestions I have heard, this ranks among the easiest.
    It seems you are ignoring what people are saying about defunding. And just making up your mind based not on what people said

    Come on and tell us what’s so crazy

  16. #15556
    Quote Originally Posted by tehealadin View Post
    This is something that just astounds me. In Scotland we have the Police Investigations and Review Commissioner, an independent body set up to investigate allegations of misconduct by police officers. I know in England and Wales they have something similar. From the best of my knowledge, these bodies are made up mostly of lawyers, I think there is civilian representation too, the point being it is not entirely made up of cops. I genuinely did not know until recently that there wasn't something like this in the US, at least not in all states, and I was genuinely shocked by this.

    I am by no means an ACAB person. While I think these people are often legitimately angry and point out very real flaws, I think this position is at best childish, and the gymnastics that are often performed to justify this, often as being literally true (we can see people in here, people I consider intelligent and usually capable of nuanced thought make these claims) are just absurd, and we tend to see them come out with insane ideas like defund the police (even if you disagree with my contention that this is insane, it is certainly not unreasonable to object to this, only a zealot would assert this, sadly the overly emotional reasoning that comes out with the ACAB mean there are more than a few zealots) and even abolish the police (yes, I know it is only a minority that call for this, however they get a worrying amount of cover, if the reasons why this is a terrible idea aren't obvious to you, then I don't know what to say). People get heated and can make suggestions/demands that either tread close to, or flat out dive in head first into the crazy zone.

    However there are clearly very simple, straight forward things that can be done, that aren't insane or extremely detrimental to society, and an independent board that investigates police misconduct, that isn't made up of cops, that do not answer to the police, or to police unions and is transparent in its decision making is such a great example of this, I have yet to hear a reasonable objection to this suggestion, and it amazed me that this wasn't already in place. It is a policy that should get the backing of most reasonable people, regardless of which isle they are on. People who want to through their support behind the cops, having a body like this to better ensure decent and lawful behaviour and to help enforce standards in policing should welcome this. This is something that is much harder to abuse, much harder to succumb to corruption than internal investigations as they don't have the same conflict of interests or conflicted loyalties.

    Out of the reasonable suggestions I have heard, this ranks among the easiest.
    Yeah, I don't know why they think doing internal investigations, or doing investigations with District Attorneys that are almost cops themselves with how much they work with cops on cases, it isn't transparent or independent. Some will hand their investigations off, but most won't.

  17. #15557
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Yeah, I don't know why they think doing internal investigations, or doing investigations with District Attorneys that are almost cops themselves with how much they work with cops on cases, it isn't transparent or independent. Some will hand their investigations off, but most won't.
    "We have investigated ourselves and found we were not guilty of any wrongdoing. No further investigation is necessary. Our investigation records did not result in any indictments, so they are sealed as they contain sensitive information regarding ongoing cases."
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Woods View Post
    LOL never change guys. I guess you won't because conservatism.
    Quote Originally Posted by pathora44 View Post
    Frogs are the real threat because they will kill us by drowning us just because we stabbed them with our poisonous stingers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    I do care what people on this forum think of me.
    VOTE

  18. #15558
    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    "We have investigated ourselves and found we were not guilty of any wrongdoing. No further investigation is necessary. Our investigation records did not result in any indictments, so they are sealed as they contain sensitive information regarding ongoing cases."
    Exactly. The fact that they can investigate themselves and find no wrongdoing, means that I don't trust anything they say or do. Especially when you watch some of these videos where they investigate themselves, and give a slap on the wrist to a cop that murders someone like George Floyd and whatnot.

  19. #15559
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This is nonsense.

    The "bad apple" idiom goes "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch."

    And when those "bad apples" are not aggressively and immediately removed from duty and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for every single possible abuse of force, with the entire police force turning against them and providing them no support whatsoever, then we're not talking "some bad apples". Every member of that force is a "bad apple", just by virtue of supporting and defending the other "bad apples".

    This is kind of the point of the idiom.
    Going by this logic all those "peaceful protesters" out there are also 100% violent rioters since they also practice what you describe here, and in much larger % compared to police cases of misbehaviour.

    Not that I agree, I think you're insane. This stance is ridiculous, it completely discounts the human element.
    [Infraction]
    Last edited by Rozz; 2020-09-21 at 02:32 PM. Reason: Minor Flaming

  20. #15560
    Quote Originally Posted by Soliloque View Post
    Going by this logic all those "peaceful protesters" out there are also 100% violent rioters since they also practice what you describe here, and in much larger % compared to police cases of misbehaviour.

    Not that I agree, I think you're insane. This stance is ridiculous, it completely discounts the human element.
    Except, I can probably link you dozens of videos of other protesters stopping the rioters or turning them in. While if a cop turns in another guy in his precinct, that cop is usually fired or subjected to so much harassment they quit, or in some cases, get killed. There isn't a thing similar to the "blue wall of silence" amongst protesters.

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