Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Noxx79]

I don’t agree with throwing people in prison for minor offenses either.

I agree that the officer should be fired for falsifying the warrant, I don’t really have a strong opinion on a perjury charge, which I think is a misdemeanor.

Someone is dead because of this. It’s no longer “minor”.

[Endus]

I don’t agree with throwing people in prison for minor offenses either.

We're not talking about a plot to take a couple packs of printer paper home from the precinct, dude. We're talking about an aggressive assault that resulted in an innocent woman's death.

[Elegiac]

Welp, I disagree.

Cool. You're wrong.

Y'all really need to learn that "I have an opinion" and "I have internet access" are not automatic reasons you should be taken seriously.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There's nothing about that statement that is "Crytal clear". As expected, it was a totally chaotic situation. Bare facts remain the same:

Botched warrant
Unclear whether they identified themselves but proof not definitive - you can choose your own adventure here on whether they did.
He shot first

Lot of challenges towards making this a viable case.

Rather they shot first is irrelevant unloading into an area you don’t have vision on and striking some one who was not involved dead is manslaughter though negligence and from there own admission that’s exactly what they did.

[Elegiac]

If you agree it’s a homicide - I don’t, see above.

So you're admitting you don't know what words mean? Because that's the only conclusion that can be drawn by saying something as idiotic as "an incident where someone got killed isn't a homicide".

[Elegiac]

Even after we have solid evidence that the authorities curated the investigation into the Taylor case people still be out here shilling for the police.

One has to wonder what they think they have to gain because at no point in history has being a bootlicker been protection against despotism.

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Right back at ya! Lol.

"I know you are but what am I" is also not a reason you should be taken seriously.

[Elegiac]

You’re right... I meant a crime, as was obvious from the context.

No, it's pretty obvious what you 'meant' - the meaning being you're trying to downplay an incident of negligence that resulted in an innocent woman's death because y'all are so utterly incapable of stepping out of the tribal ingroup/outgroup mindset that you've seen "BLM thinks X about this case" and instinctively assume Y position simply because you've been told to dislike them by the curated media feeds you consume on social media.

It's fine to be wrong, but it's the dishonesty which really paints a poor character picture.

[Endus]

As far as the major offense, here’s where I stand, very simply:

Did they adequately announce themselves? Unclear. Hard to build a case around it.

Given that it’s hard to say with any certainty that they’d didn’t, it’s self defense.

That is explicitly, definitively not how the law on self-defense works.

Things like self-defense, and other justifications for use of lethal force, they're what's called "affirmative defenses". They can not be presumed to be true. They must be affirmatively established, and if they cannot be evidentially supported, they are presumed to not be true.

The standard of evidence isn't as strict as criminal trial; it's only to a preponderance of the evidence. But it still exists. If whether the officers announced themselves is "unclear", we examine the evidence to see whether it's more likely that they did in any functional manner, or did not. And in that, we have one witness who changed their account to say he heard them, and a whole bunch more who claim they heard nothing. Seems a hell of a lot more likely that they didn't announce, on that evidence.

You don't need certainty. And if it's truly uncertain and there's no way we can tell, their defense of their actions fails, in legal terms. They have not established their defense for their conduct, to the legal standards expected.

Unless you're giving cops a free pass on crimes, at least. Which is sort of the fucking point, here.

If you agree it’s a homicide - I don’t, see above.

Okay, it's clear you just have no understanding of basic legal concepts.

That Breonna Taylor's death was a homicide is, literally, a fact. It is not in question by anyone. Are you suggesting she died of natural causes, and not the bullet wound?

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You’re right... I meant a crime, as was obvious from the context.

By context, we're supposed to guess you meant a completely different word than the one you actually chose to use? Even though the word you used works in that context?

No. You either made a dumb argument without understanding what the word meant, or you misspoke pretty egregiously and that's entirely your fault and you should have owned up to it, rather than trying to blame those who pointed it out.

[Elegiac]

But saying “you’re wrong” is super constructive? Ok!

You’re wrong.

Key difference is that I actually have evidence of this case being mishandled, as opposed to your insisting that everything is working as intended based on 'reasons', lol.

[Noxx79]

Please tell me more about what I think. Truly enlightening lol.

You honestly thought I was trying to argue that Breonna wasn’t killed?

You called it a minor crime that shouldn’t be punished.

[Bodakane]

You’re right... I meant a crime, as was obvious from the context.

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But saying “Cool! you’re wrong” is super constructive? Ok!

Cool! You’re wrong.

I mean you are wrong though and its been explained to you why you're wrong numerous times.

Also, i challenge you to once and for all stop ignoring the fact they turned off their cams and tried to get the boyfriend to lie about Taylor.

[Noxx79]

And we go back around the circle. Find me the place where I said that the killing of Breonna Taylor was a minor crime that shouldn’t be punished.

I don’t agree with throwing people in prison for minor offenses either.

I agree that the officer should be fired for falsifying the warrant, I don’t really have a strong opinion on a perjury charge, which I think is a misdemeanor.

Just because they didn’t put the bullets in her doesn’t make it minor when it directly lead to her death.

And now below you’re saying it’s not a crime at all.

All you’re doing is trolling now.

[Bodakane]

And we go back around the circle. Find me the place where I said that the killing of Breonna Taylor was a minor crime that shouldn’t be punished.

You said it was just unfortunate thing that happened because sometimes unfortunate things happened and that doesn't;t make it a crime.

[Noxx79]

I didn’t ignore the turning off of cams. I applaud the rule that they must be left on from now on.

As far as telling the boyfriend to lie, if that’s true that’s another case, not related to the manslaughter. You sure it was telling him to lie and not just the usual “it’ll go easier on you if you testify to any knowledge of criminal activity”.

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Agreed. My argument all along is that it wasn’t a crime.

Oh, so now it’s not a crime? That’s WORSE than being a minor crime. Cry victim elsewhere

[Noxx79]

Anyway, FYI I’m logging off for the day. Mods please don’t infract me for saying this like you did last time.

Yup, you’ve been caught.

[postman1782]

There's nothing about that statement that is "Crytal clear". As expected, it was a totally chaotic situation. Bare facts remain the same:

Botched warrant
Unclear whether they identified themselves but proof not definitive - you can choose your own adventure here on whether they did.
He shot first

Lot of challenges towards making this a viable case.

Are you going to just let someone break into your home if you are in there with a gun? Because with them not announcing themselves, they absolutely deserved to be blasted back out of the door. This is why Cops should be REQUIRED to all wear body cams they can't fucking turn off or delete the fucking footage.

[Bodakane]

If a Brittany Taylor had been killed instead of a Breonna Taylor those cops would have been thrown in jai.......wait no they wouldn't, because they never would have gotten a bad warrant for a Brittany Taylor.

[postman1782]

Wait, so the standard is that we have to prove he heard them? Never heard of that as a legal argument. You know it's possible that unfortunate things can happen and it's not always a crime, right?

Agree with you on the bad warrant though, this is the biggest problem in the chain of events and far more attention should be paid to that part of the case than on the cops who got assigned to execute it.

Considering there are 11 witnesses/neighbors that said they didn't announce themselves at all, versus one guy that claims they did, after changing his story 2 months later, it is more like they didn't announce themselves at all, versus him unable to hear them.

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How many? The cop who wrote the shoddy warrant? The judge who approved it?

How bout every single cop that has a bullet in Taylor, every single cop involved in the warrant, and every single judge that approved that warrant, long after they already had the guy in jail that was on the warrant.

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The cop(s) that got the bad warrant.
The cop(s) that targeted the wrong person.
The cop(s) that turned off their body cams.
The cop(s) that didn't announce.
The cop that shot Taylor.
The cop(s) that tried to cover it up.

This type of shit doesn't end until there's actual consequences. If an innocent person dies, then everything the cops did wrong before and after that point, should be criminal. THEN maybe we can start fixing our police force.

Or again, we can make every fucking excuse in the book and continue watching them murdering black people and eroding their effectiveness.

Exactly. Literally everything screams that the cops involved in this incident were people that shouldn't be fucking cops. Considering how many things they did wrong in this entire situation.

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Welp, I disagree. First of all I disagree that it was manslaughter, making the rest irrelevant, but secondly I disagree that a sloppily obtained warrant is criminal conspiracy - sure charge perjury if you want.

It wasn't manslaughter, it was murder. They didn't shoot at the guy shooting at them, they shot at a random person, 8 FUCKING TIMES.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If Hankison has hit Breonna you’re correct. But he didn’t. It was another cop who was in the room

So you agree that the other cop who also unloaded blindly but stuck her is guilty of manslaughter though negligence then?

[Themius]

Nope. The other officers were in the room with line of sight and accidentally hit Breonna. Hankison was outside firing blindly, which is why he got charged.

He got charged for endangering a white apartment... the black apartment above though??? nothing. The dead black body? nothing.