1. #18141
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I mean, if you literally only listened to the defense's witness, sure. But he was hardly the only witness to speak on the autopsy results, and was the only one that came to that conclusion.
    I mean what autopsy? The one who said he died of overdose? The one who said he died of covid or the ones who said he died of affixation?

    It really seems like people only want evidence that aligns with the outcome they have already predetermined to be true. Give what happened before and after the arrest it looks like a overdose. He was already having spasms before police involvement. When I look at everything I can't really accept that this is open and shut.

  2. #18142
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The U.S. court system is set up in favor of the defendant - the "innocent until proven guilty" motif is spread throughout the entire process. And in most cases we want it to be just like this - and in our history it has been absent so many times (think black suspect being coerced to "confess" to a crime).

    So when the defense is putting forth their arguments, they can present alternative theories, to pierce that "reasonable doubt" threshold prosecutors must meet. If there are alternate theories that the defense can back up with some kind of legitimate evidence, then they can introduce them in the trial. The prosecution needs to be ready to defeat those claims, and in almost all cases knows ahead of time what people will be testifying (so the prosecution can opposition prep, ect).

    That statement from the judge about late evidence and a possible mistrial is interesting - I need to look at it some more.
    Declaring it a mistrial would be interesting on top of if the prosecution didn't include the entire blood tox reports as their evidence. If they did, CO2 levels should be in it already.

  3. #18143
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    31,930
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/...raint-77084151



    That's a good thing. You don't introduce new evidence in the middle of a court proceeding, all evidence has to be introduced before proceedings in my understanding. It protects scumbags and innocent people all the same, as innocence is presumed.

    The court isn't there to make you feel good, even when it's working as intended as it is in this instance.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is what confuses me. I'd imagine all this autopsy information is entered as evidence, including blood oxygen/carbon monoxide levels, so this shouldn't be "new". The only thing I can imagine is somehow this specific data wasn't entered with everything else and the judge is simply saying you can't introduce super late evidence, since usually evidence is introduced early so each team has time to prepare around it and it can be presented to the jury or whatever.

    I know they don't allow, "Your Honor, we have SURPRISE EVIDENCE!" at the last minute, and this appears to be an extension of that.
    I'm not seeing that quote you list above from the link.

  4. #18144
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    I mean what autopsy? The one who said he died of overdose? The one who said he died of covid or the ones who said he died of affixation?

    It really seems like people only want evidence that aligns with the outcome they have already predetermined to be true. Give what happened before and after the arrest it looks like a overdose. He was already having spasms before police involvement. When I look at everything I can't really accept that this is open and shut.
    There was literally NO AUTOPSY that says he died of a fucking overdose. Both of them have stated he died of asphyxiation. None said he died of Covid either,

  5. #18145
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    31,930
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    I mean what autopsy? The one who said he died of overdose? The one who said he died of covid or the ones who said he died of affixation?

    It really seems like people only want evidence that aligns with the outcome they have already predetermined to be true. Give what happened before and after the arrest it looks like a overdose. He was already having spasms before police involvement. When I look at everything I can't really accept that this is open and shut.
    Can you link the separate autopsies that conclude your observations above? Is there on in evidence that claims he died of an overdose? Or COVID?

  6. #18146
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    I mean what autopsy? The one who said he died of overdose? The one who said he died of covid or the ones who said he died of affixation?
    Nobody said he died of covid, only that he tested positive for it. That's a pretty big tell about where you're coming from with this.

  7. #18147
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    31,930
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    Declaring it a mistrial would be interesting on top of if the prosecution didn't include the entire blood tox reports as their evidence. If they did, CO2 levels should be in it already.
    How did they not include the entire blood toxicity report? Where are you seeing that?

  8. #18148
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Can you link the separate autopsies that conclude your observations above? Is there on in evidence that claims he died of an overdose? Or COVID?
    I don't honestly know if I can. I admit I don't want to scan through hours of trial to find it brought up and would you accept any link that wasn't an official newspaper publication?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...2a5_story.html

    Touches on it but they won't actually go into details about waving it away as something they always try to do.. I can maybe find a screen cap?

    This one is a bit better

    https://news.wttw.com/2021/04/10/hea...-cause-medical

  9. #18149
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I'm not seeing that quote you list above from the link.
    Weird, not sure what's up. This should work, note that I snipped out a paragraph between those two quotes - https://abc11.com/derek-chauvin-wont...eath/10516594/

  10. #18150
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    31,930
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Nobody said he died of covid, only that he tested positive for it. That's a pretty big tell about where you're coming from with this.
    /snort - died from COVID in 9.5 minutes.... Racists seem to only embrace science when it allows their ilk to go free.

  11. #18151
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    How did they not include the entire blood toxicity report? Where are you seeing that?
    Not saying that they did, just "if" they didn't. I haven't been watching closely enough to see if they only submitted specific parts of the report as evidence or if submitted the whole thing and just referenced parts.

  12. #18152
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    31,930
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    I don't honestly know if I can. I admit I don't want to scan through hours of trial to find it brought up and would you accept any link that wasn't an official newspaper publication?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...2a5_story.html

    Touches on it but they won't actually go into details about waving it away as something they always try to do.. I can maybe find a screen cap?

    This one is a bit better

    https://news.wttw.com/2021/04/10/hea...-cause-medical
    Thanks...from your source:
    That should put to rest any of your concerns about alternate reasons for Floyd's death.
    These are also great to read, just to firm up your position that the cop killed him:
    Hennepin County Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker ruled Floyd's death last May a homicide and identified the cause as "cardiopulmonary arrest" that occurred during "law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression" -- all findings he stood by in court on Friday.

    Asked about the autopsy and Floyd's death certificate, Baker described the "top line of the cause of death" as "what you think is the most important thing that precipitated the death."

    "Other things that you think played a role in the death but were not direct causes get relegated to what's known as the 'other significant conditions' part of the death certificate," he said. "For example, you know, Mr. Floyd's use of fentanyl did not cause the subdual or neck restraint. His heart disease did not cause the subdual or the neck restraint."

  13. #18153
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Thanks...from your source:

    That should put to rest any of your concerns about alternate reasons for Floyd's death.
    These are also great to read, just to firm up your position that the cop killed him:
    Just to back up this point: https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/henn...psy-6-3-20.pdf

    Literally the autopsy report.

    Cause of death is literally the case title: "CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT
    SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION"

  14. #18154
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Thanks...from your source:

    That should put to rest any of your concerns about alternate reasons for Floyd's death.
    These are also great to read, just to firm up your position that the cop killed him:
    I won't post anymore here apparently my avatar/signature is a violation and this is baiting comments? Will leave you to your section.

  15. #18155
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    31,930
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Weird, not sure what's up. This should work, note that I snipped out a paragraph between those two quotes - https://abc11.com/derek-chauvin-wont...eath/10516594/
    Thanks - yeah, that was odd. I'm seeing the quotes now. Those statements are interesting...and frankly I'm still not following the entire issue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    I won't post anymore here apparently my avatar/signature is a violation and this is baiting comments? Will leave you to your section.
    It's noted that your own source proved your position to be objectively false. Your lack of redress or any other comment to your internal revelation just backs up previous conclusions on your posts and character.

  16. #18156
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    I won't post anymore here apparently my avatar/signature is a violation and this is baiting comments? Will leave you to your section.
    LOL, so the ban evading alt account is lying, because you don't have a signature, never did. And if you had your avatar as a violation, you wouldn't still be able to use it.

    And if it violated this "section" it would violate every section, and you wouldn't be able to post using either in any section.

  17. #18157
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    31,930
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Just to back up this point: https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/henn...psy-6-3-20.pdf

    Literally the autopsy report.

    Cause of death is literally the case title: "CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT
    SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION"
    Yeah - some of our ban-avoiding alt-accounts just can't help themselves.

    I'm VERY curious to see how this jury comes back. I guess they won't start until Monday, at which point they will be sequestered, but they aren't sequestered NOW - which I find very interesting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    It really seems like people only want evidence that aligns with the outcome they have already predetermined to be true. Give what happened before and after the arrest it looks like a overdose. He was already having spasms before police involvement. When I look at everything I can't really accept that this is open and shut.
    That's YOU. You are looking for any indication that aligns with your already predetermined outcome.

    The rest of us are following the evidence, including the medical examiners report, which you link, showing conclusively Floyd died because a cop was sitting on his throat for 9+ minutes.

  18. #18158
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost controller View Post
    snip
    So, they gave you the wrong reason for the ban, big deal, but talking about moderation will get you another infraction. AND that comment was baiting, AND FALSE. Literally every person that posts that bullshit is lying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Yeah - some of our ban-avoiding alt-accounts just can't help themselves.

    I'm VERY curious to see how this jury comes back. I guess they won't start until Monday, at which point they will be sequestered, but they aren't sequestered NOW - which I find very interesting.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That's YOU. You are looking for any indication that aligns with your already predetermined outcome.

    The rest of us are following the evidence, including the medical examiners report, which you link, showing conclusively Floyd died because a cop was sitting on his throat for 9+ minutes.
    Exactly, on both accounts. Especially your bolded statement.

    I have seen lots of right winger Trump supporters with the whole "back the blue" bullshit in their FB accounts, or Youtube comments saying the same lie that that he died of a drug overdose, even though literally every other expert, INCLUDING the Medical Examiner that did the autopsy, said that he didn't.

    And this pulmonologist, Dr. Tobin, was severely DEVASTATING to their claims.
    Last edited by Rozz; 2021-04-15 at 07:22 PM.

  19. #18159
    It's 100% clear at this point that he wouldn't have died if no knee to the neck.

  20. #18160
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    It's 100% clear at this point that he wouldn't have died if no knee to the neck.
    Even if he had some sort of other medical reaction... the moment when he calls out that he can’t breath, is the moment where not lifting your knee is murder.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •