1. #18161
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    As has been repeatedly quoted in the Chauvin trial, third-degree murder in Minnesota is:

    Seems appropriate for this one as well.
    Wrong. He INTENTIONALLY knelt on his neck, without checking for a pulse, for 3 fucking minutes after he died.

  2. #18162
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Well, yes. There's something called "good faith" (in the legal lexicon) which all cops (being instruments of the law and the justice system) are assumed to have. If you, in good faith, believe something may be related to the commission of a crime, everything from that good faith belief is justifiable. Even if you're absolutely and utterly wrong, and end up shooting a completely innocent person, as long as you believed in what you were doing.

    Of course, it's near impossible to prove the bad faith mentality of cops, and bias has never been considered bad faith. And good faith practices are constantly expanded on by criminal court judges, who all tend to be former prosecutors, IE people who worked hand in hand with the cops in their legal careers.
    I cannot imagine having to be a lawyer in cases like this, being on the other side of the defence when they clearly have things a lot easier.

  3. #18163
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    That's just fucking unbelievable. 60 working days to have the legally protected right to murder someone.

    (I really with Defund Police had had a better name - not that that's the reason the movement is wanning)
    Yep, I think they should have to go through everything for at least a year of training and require deep background checks, so that they don't get some of the white supremacist problem they have like the military seems to have lately.

  4. #18164
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Man, this is just bringing out all the greatest hits of, "I'm not a sexist...BUT..."
    idgaf about your labels. I'm speaking truth to power. Men and women are physically different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Joe who?

  5. #18165
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Wrong. He INTENTIONALLY knelt on his neck, without checking for a pulse, for 3 fucking minutes after he died.
    I don't think you're reading me correctly. Whatever.

  6. #18166
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Yep, I think they should have to go through everything for at least a year of training and require deep background checks, so that they don't get some of the white supremacist problem they have like the military seems to have lately.
    Agreed re the training. Include social service training, mental health, enhanced de-escalation practices.

    I would go so far as to have police officers NOT carry firearms on their person. Leave them in the vehicle, secured.

  7. #18167
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Avg man is bigger than the avg woman. That matters a lot when it comes to takedowns. You don't want to risk lives for the sake of equality. The fact that professional fighters are still separated into weight classes should set you on the path to enlightenment.
    Your argument is literally "the average woman is too small for the job so must use deadly for every time, all the time".

    WTF? Mind you I've seen small nurses drop people twice their size like nothing.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  8. #18168
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    idgaf about your labels. I'm speaking truth to power. Men and women are physically different.
    They are physically different. However size may matter for a lot, but it's far from all that matters, technique plays a big role as well.

  9. #18169
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I don't think you're reading me correctly. Whatever.
    No, I am reading you just fine, you are trying to get him a lesser charge, when it is clearly murder.

  10. #18170
    High Overlord Zinstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Avg man is bigger than the avg woman. That matters a lot when it comes to takedowns. You don't want to risk lives for the sake of equality. The fact that professional fighters are still separated into weight classes should set you on the path to enlightenment.
    ....even if your statement is true it doesn't mean women can't be cops or that they will always be worse cops compared to men.... Their is more to being a cop then just takedown ability... and plus even if their wasn't I'm pretty sure there are plenty of women cops who could do take downs at least 5 times better then the video you just linked.

    Being a cop should come down to if said person can pass the required physical ability needed (whatever that line is), weather they can show they have aptitude for it and if they can learn the skills/get the training needed for it. That is it and none of that is restricted by a person's gender.

  11. #18171
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Agreed re the training. Include social service training, mental health, enhanced de-escalation practices.

    I would go so far as to have police officers NOT carry firearms on their person. Leave them in the vehicle, secured.
    Yes, someone that carries around something designed to kill, that will go for that before going for non-lethal types of weapons, should have a lot more training. Especially when we have seen over the last few years, that cops have killed people with autism, or other mental health problems because they wouldn't comply or couldn't understand the orders.

  12. #18172
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Avg man is bigger than the avg woman. That matters a lot when it comes to takedowns. You don't want to risk lives for the sake of equality. The fact that professional fighters are still separated into weight classes should set you on the path to enlightenment.
    It's almost like "takedowns" are not even 1% of the job description or actual duties of a police officer. Are you onto the path of enlightenment or do we need to eschew you of several other sexist points of view you hold?

  13. #18173
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    No, I am reading you just fine, you are trying to get him a lesser charge, when it is clearly murder.
    No, that's pretty clearly not what I wrote and doesn't make any sense in this context. I'm not going to have a retarded argument with someone that's engaging this kind of pointless bad faith though.

  14. #18174
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    The two incidents circulating illustrate any situation when dealing with the police is stressful for black people. When any given officer approaches you thinking the worst while others already walk around with ill intentions you for your all. Every move could be the 'wrong one' for no particular logical reason. Every world even if you do exactly as youre told. An entire institution that will throw your life away even in a clear case of murder because cops aren't supposed to cross the 'blue line'. "Well he should have moved faster", 'he should have kept his hands on the wheel" "he shouldn't look so intimidating" "I was scared" "he looked suspicious" "I didn't mean to actually shoot" "the bullets didn't actually kill him, it was xyz".

    You know the system doesn't value your life so many can only see the life or death situation. Doesn't might if you're guilty or innocent of something, all that's ticking in your mind is your fight or flight response. "If this officer beats or kills me at least I tried to get away". Or "I'm not moving no matter what they say because it's their words vs my actions and my actions lose."

    The 'good' cops aren't trained deal with bad officers, they are told to fall in line, or they just as fearful to speak up.

    Defund the police was too harsh. They said the protests were too disruptive, even the defense authorities in the Floyd case valid theres a problem, that a unfavorable verdict will lead to a reaction. And yet we are right to where we were a year a ago. Almost to the day.
    This is part of the reason I don't drive much at all... it's frequently in the back of my mind when I've gone through certain towns and literally be followed.

    This is also why when in the past officer's have been attacked (sometimes by the very right wing people they supported...) I don't give two shits.

    Not "everyone" in the SS was bad after all... but should anyone really give a shit when they're part of the entire apparatus of oppression to begin with?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  15. #18175
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    No, that's pretty clearly not what I wrote and doesn't make any sense in this context. I'm not going to have a retarded argument with someone that's engaging this kind of pointless bad faith though.
    Because you clearly think that Chauvin, without intent, killed him. When clearly there were people there telling him he can't breathe besides Floyd, even an off-duty fireperson trying to render aid. Even knelt on him over 3 minutes after Floyd took his last breath, and didn't even try to take a pulse.

  16. #18176
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I don't think you're reading me correctly. Whatever.
    Then be clear?

    this one too

    Too as in this one "also"

    What other case are you referring to with your "too"

    If you think the Chauvin case too should be just third-degree... you deserve the chastising you're getting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  17. #18177
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Then be clear?

    this one too

    Too as in this one "also"

    What other case are you referring to with your "too"

    If you think the Chauvin case too should be just third-degree... you deserve the chastising you're getting.
    Chauvin, objectively, has a third-degree charge against him (in addition to the second-degree charge). The third-degree charge seems appropriate in this case as well.

    I really don't care much if people are too enraptured by the usual circlejerk to parse simple syntax.

  18. #18178
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Your argument is literally "the average woman is too small for the job so must use deadly for every time, all the time".

    WTF? Mind you I've seen small nurses drop people twice their size like nothing.
    Physical restraint is part of the job. You don't hire underqualified people. Women can still have a place in the force without going on patrol, just like the military. This also applies to manlets.
    Last edited by docterfreeze; 2021-04-18 at 03:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Joe who?

  19. #18179
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Chauvin, objectively, has a third-degree charge against him (in addition to the second-degree charge). The third-degree charge seems appropriate in this case as well.

    I really don't care much if people are too enraptured by the usual circlejerk to parse simple syntax.
    You can't be vague with your meaning and then also bitch and moan about your vagueness pick a fucking lane.

    Second degree murder fits.

    ubd. 2.Unintentional murders. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
    (1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

    (2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  20. #18180
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    You can't be vague with your meaning and then also bitch and moan about your vagueness pick a fucking lane.

    Second degree murder fits.
    In this case today? Probably not, legally. I don't really care though, I have no energy to defend garbage cops. If she was hung in a public square I wouldn't mourn it.

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