Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

That's not "reasonable doubt". Emphasis on the word "reasonable".

You can't just say "but hey, it MIGHT be wrong." You need to establish where they may have been wrong, where they made a call that could have gone either way, how another professional may have ruled differently (much harder with two mutually-corroborative autopsies, of course).

Actually, they can. Their entire case is going to be exactly that. Whether or not that convinces the jury is a separate matter.

[Endus]

Actually, they can. Their entire case is going to be exactly that. Whether or not that convinces the jury is a separate matter.

Sure, they can make the argument. They can say Floyd died from an infestation of Nega-fairies from the Planet Orblux, if they want to.

And sure, the jury can be complete idiots who fail serve their role and say "yeah, Nega-fairies MIGHT exist".

That just demonstrates how easy it is for unjust decisions to come out of the US court system, though. It doesn't defend the use of that strategy or the functionality of the jury system. It points to significant flaws in both.

[Benggaul]

I don't know why you're focused on physical fitness when the issue is that the officer apparently can't tell the difference between a taser and a glock.

I don't know why everyone is focused on responding to someone who comes out of nowhere with a VERY low post count immediately after someone was banned yesterday for pushing the same sexist garbage.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Sure, they can make the argument. They can say Floyd died from an infestation of Nega-fairies from the Planet Orblux, if they want to.

And sure, the jury can be complete idiots who fail serve their role and say "yeah, Nega-fairies MIGHT exist".

That just demonstrates how easy it is for unjust decisions to come out of the US court system, though. It doesn't defend the use of that strategy or the functionality of the jury system. It points to significant flaws in both.

Don't move goalposts.

You were saying the defense isn't valid.

Now you are saying that it's only valid because of the flaws in the system.

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They haven't presented any "reasonable" evidence that the autopsies could be wrong though... and the lawyer... my fucking god

"if we just ignore all the facts of the case... wouldn't you agree it could possibly maybe be something else?"

It was their first witness. They don't have to provide reasonable doubt based on the testimony of a single witness. When they rest their case...that will be when it's determined whether or not they provided they jury with enough evidence of reasonable doubt.

And for the record, I believe Chauvin is guilty. I believe the results of the autopsy were accurate. All I am saying is that his legal team has to provide the best defense they can for him.

[cubby]

The cop in the Wright shooting has quit and the Police Chief is stepping down.

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I really hate to say it but this just looks like a horrible fucking tragedy - that should have been prevented with better training and less racist cops.

[Edge-]

I really hate to say it but this just looks like a horrible fucking tragedy - that should have been prevented with better training and less racist cops.

Accidental, yes. But should still be accountability, and it speaks to the broader trends in the ongoing failure of both initial and ongoing training for officers in the US. This is, as has been discussed, hardly the first time an officer has mistaken a service weapon for a taser, and while I haven't searched extensively this seems to be yet another thing that's uniquely American.

[Endus]

Don't move goalposts.

You were saying the defense isn't valid.

Now you are saying that it's only valid because of the flaws in the system.

No, I'm saying its invalidity might be ignored because the courts allow invalid arguments to be presented without consequence, and juries often decide on emotion rather than reason, particularly in the case of a hung jury.

I'm using "valid" in the sense of logic and legal procedure, not in what a jury might accept.

[kaid]

The cop in the Wright shooting has quit and the Police Chief is stepping down.

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I really hate to say it but this just looks like a horrible fucking tragedy - that should have been prevented with better training and less racist cops.

The person who shot the dude was literally the training officer. If a training officer can't figure out which thing to whip out and shoot then some serious changes are needed. Like maybe don't allow officers to pull anybody over for nickle and dime BS things like air fresheners. Every interaction with police these days has a very real chance of being a deadly shooting event and people are so freaked out and terrified they are doing stupid things during those interactions. It is time to limit those interactions to only actual crimes worthy of the use of deadly force.

[Endus]

The cop in the Wright shooting has quit and the Police Chief is stepping down.

- - - Updated - - -

I really hate to say it but this just looks like a horrible fucking tragedy - that should have been prevented with better training and less racist cops.

It's the kind of "horrible fucking tragedy" that should see the offending officer spending time in prison.

The same way we would if the officer was texting their buddies while driving and plowed into the toddler who was standing in the street.
The same way we would if the officer was drunk on the job and fired randomly at a wall for fun, and shot someone on the other side of said wall.

Sure, maybe it's just negligent manslaughter, but that's still a prison sentence. Their negligence and incompetence isn't an ameliorating circumstance; if anything, it should exacerbate their sentencing.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

No, I'm saying its invalidity might be ignored because the courts allow invalid arguments to be presented without consequence, and juries often decide on emotion rather than reason, particularly in the case of a hung jury.

I'm using "valid" in the sense of logic and legal procedure, not in what a jury might accept.

Well, the judge ruled that the testimony was admissible...but only in regards to the effect of the opiates on the human body. The jury was instructed to disregard the testimony as evidence to Floyd's character. So, according to the judge presiding over the case, the defense is valid in terms of logic and legal procedure.

[Edge-]

The person who shot the dude was literally the training officer.

She's a 26 year veteran, did you not bother reading the article?

[cubby]

Accidental, yes. But should still be accountability, and it speaks to the broader trends in the ongoing failure of both initial and ongoing training for officers in the US. This is, as has been discussed, hardly the first time an officer has mistaken a service weapon for a taser, and while I haven't searched extensively this seems to be yet another thing that's uniquely American.

Along with the race issue, where it's literally safer to have killed several people as a white person than to be pulled over for a traffic stop as a black person.

[Lost controller]

The primary officer arresting Wright was a man. He lost control of the situation. By your logic, men shouldn't be allowed to be out on patrol.

They shouldn't be on the force if they cant physically control a suspect yes...

[ghotihook]

Along with the race issue, where it's literally safer to have killed several people as a white person than to be pulled over for a traffic stop as a black person.

Proof?
/10char

[cubby]

The person who shot the dude was literally the training officer. If a training officer can't figure out which thing to whip out and shoot then some serious changes are needed. Like maybe don't allow officers to pull anybody over for nickle and dime BS things like air fresheners. Every interaction with police these days has a very real chance of being a deadly shooting event and people are so freaked out and terrified they are doing stupid things during those interactions. It is time to limit those interactions to only actual crimes worthy of the use of deadly force.

I did not know she was the training officer. Agreed with the rest.

Honestly, at this point, I would support a nation-wide rule removing firearms from police officers carry equipment. Have them in the trunk.

[Edge-]

They shouldn't be on the force if they cant physically control a suspect yes...

Cool, so the issue is that the dude isn't jacked enough and you just decided to complain about the womunz on the force.

So again: What's your definition? Since there will always be someone bigger than an officer around, should cops just like, put our wanted ads for the biggest people in the county and hire them because apparently being big is an important qualification because a majority of the officers time will, I guess, be spent manhandling suspects?

This is some special shit, yo. Going from blatant sexism to pure fantasy.

[cubby]

Proof?
/10char

Read the thread. Already links in here.

[ghotihook]

Read the thread. Already links in here.

Then link them I am not going to read 18 thousand posts

[cubby]

Then link them I am not going to read 18 thousand posts

Then we can't help you. Look up Kyle Rittenhouse. Read the news.

[ghotihook]

Then we can't help you. Look up Kyle Rittenhouse. Read the news.

1 is not greater than the 100 or black men that die from traffic stops.