1. #18641
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghotihook View Post
    I get the feeling if it's anything but life in prison people are going to be very disappointed. So I guarantee people will be disappointed.
    Man, it's almost as if this country's judicial system is shitty or something. But thank you for stating the obvious.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  2. #18642
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Nobody thinks he's going to get that kind of sentence.
    No, but that's what they want.

  3. #18643
    Quote Originally Posted by ghotihook View Post
    No, but that's what they want.
    Well, he is a fucking murderer.

    It's a shame so many want to try and shill for murderous cops.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  4. #18644
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Well, he is a fucking murderer.

    It's a shame so many want to try and shill for murderous cops.
    I hope he gets convicted of murder, but I am afraid all he will get is manslaughter.

  5. #18645
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Jury decision inc. in about an hour

  6. #18646
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Jury decision inc. in about an hour
    Hold on to your butts.
    There is a limit to the success of conservative populism and the exploitation of "little guy" or "silent majority" rhetoric, and it is very often reached because of the emaciated, corrupted personalities of the demagogues themselves.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  7. #18647
    They came to a decision quite quickly considering how much testimony they heard. Even if they find him guilty it may not be the final word. This system sucks.

  8. #18648
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    And here we go...

  9. #18649
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Jury decision inc. in about an hour
    Ah, fuck, this has the potential to get ugly. Well, at least Trump proved you can incite a riot and not be held responsible. I feel very strongly the same rules should apply to everyone.

  10. #18650
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Yep 20 Mins it should start. I predict a Hung Jury 40% Guilty 60% in any event he'll likely get 10 years and serve 3
    Last edited by Doctor Amadeus; 2021-04-20 at 08:12 PM.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  11. #18651
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Yep 20 Mins it should start. I predict a Hung Jury 40% Guilty 60% in any event he'll likely get 10 years and serve 3
    Too soon for a hung jury - a verdict means they have a decision. If the jury tried that the judge would have them continue to deliberate.

  12. #18652
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Too soon for a hung jury - a verdict means they have a decision. If the jury tried that the judge would have them continue to deliberate.
    You're probably right, But I submit that the judge was already flirting with a mistrial as it were, so while I'll lend with your background and experience you're probably right. I am thinking it's a guilty but something gives me the feeling this really could be a hung jury because of how early in the day it is.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  13. #18653
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    You're probably right, But I submit that the judge was already flirting with a mistrial as it were, so while I'll lend with your background and experience you're probably right. I am thinking it's a guilty but something gives me the feeling this really could be a hung jury because of how early in the day it is.
    That's the opposite of how it works. Hung juries occur after the jury spends a ton of time trying to reach a unanimous conclusion. A quick jury decision means there wasn't much debate to be had; everyone was in agreement or easily convinced to join the rest at least.

  14. #18654
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's the opposite of how it works. Hung juries occur after the jury spends a ton of time trying to reach a unanimous conclusion. A quick jury decision means there wasn't much debate to be had; everyone was in agreement or easily convinced to join the rest at least.
    Yeah, but if much debate were being had they just got this, wouldn't it make sense they would exhaust the arguments and review the evidence just in case. All the cases I've ever witness similar have and do.


    Here is a heads up though.

    Who are the people deciding Chauvin's fate? The jury is made up of 3 Black men, including 2 who are immigrants; 1 Black woman; 2 women who identify as multiracial; 2 white men; and 4 white women. Here's what we know about the 12 jurors.

    Here’s what we know about the jurors who have been seated.

    Half of the jury in the Chauvin trial is nonwhite
    That's only part of the story
    6 jurors are Black or multiracial
    Diverse jury raises activists' hopes for Chauvin trial
    Daily recaps Here's what has happened in the Chauvin trial so far
    Who's who Key players in the Chauvin trial
    Timeline George Floyd's death, protests and Derek Chauvin's trial
    Full coverage The killing of George Floyd and trial of Derek Chauvin

    No. 2: White man, 20s
    He described himself as a chemist and environmental studies scientist who said he typically views life through an analytical lens.

    Defense attorney Eric Nelson asked him to expand on some of the answers he gave on his written questionnaire, particularly a question concerning Black Lives Matter.

    “I support the message that every life should matter equally,” the juror said. “I don’t believe that the organization Black Lives Matter necessarily stands for that.”

    The juror was also asked to expand on answers he gave about disparities in policing and about the criminal justice system. He said he doesn’t necessarily think Minneapolis police are more likely to use force against Black people than they would against others.

    However, he said he believes the criminal justice system is biased against racial and ethnic minorities. He said there was a lot of evidence to support that opinion.

    No. 9: Multi/mixed race woman, 20s
    She described herself as easygoing, and a mediator among her friends.

    In her questionnaire, she said she had somewhat negative impressions of Chauvin, but that she could keep an open mind and be fair. She also said she believes the Black Lives Matter movement, along with Blue Lives Matter, has turned into a disingenuous marketing scheme for corporations.

    She has an uncle who’s a police officer in central Minnesota, but said that wouldn't affect her opinion.

    When the judge told her she was chosen, she said, "Awesome."

    No. 19: White man, 30s
    He said he’s in client services and has had to resolve conflicts before.

    In his questionnaire, he indicated his view of Chauvin was “somewhat negative” because he didn’t resuscitate Floyd, and that he supports Black Lives Matter in a general context. He also said he has some unfavorable views of Blue Lives Matter.

    He said he has a “friend of a friend” who is a Minneapolis K-9 officer but that he hasn’t spoken to him about the case or seen him since the pandemic.

    He said he’s seen the bystander video about two or three times, not in full, as part of news articles.

    No. 27: Black man, 30s
    He told the court he came to the United States 14 years ago, speaks multiple languages, works in information technology and is married.

    Nelson asked the juror about an answer he provided on the written questionnaire about the death of Floyd. “And you said, ‘It could have been me or anyone else.' Can you explain that a little?” asked Nelson.

    “It could have been anybody. It could have been you,” replied the juror. “I also used to live not far from that area (38th Street and Chicago Avenue in south Minneapolis) when I first met my wife. So that is why I said it could have been me. It could have been anybody.”

    Asked if he had any particular opinions about the Minneapolis Police Department or law enforcement in general, the man said he did not. The juror also said he felt somewhat supportive of both Black Lives Matter and Blue Lives Matter.

    “And you wrote that you believe ‘our cops need to be safe and feel and be safe to protect our community,’” Nelson read from the juror’s questionnaire. “Correct,” said the juror.

    No. 44: White woman, 50s
    The court held part of her questioning without audio while they discussed a sensitive matter with the juror. She later said in her work for a nonprofit advocacy group, she’s had contact with Attorney General Keith Ellison.

    When asked if she felt that would jeopardize her ability to be an impartial juror, she said no.

    Nelson asked the juror about her answers on the jury questionnaire pertaining to the treatment of people of color by the criminal justice system.

    “I do believe there’s bias,” said the woman. “I’ve seen it in my work.”

    The woman also said had formed a somewhat negative opinion of Chauvin. But she said she had sympathy and empathy, not only for Floyd, but for the officers involved.

    “Everyone’s lives are changed by this incident and what happened. Everyone’s lives,” she said. “And it’s not easy. For anyone.”

    No. 52: Black man, 30s
    He said he works in the banking industry and is a youth sports coach.

    In his questionnaire, he said he was neutral on Chauvin and Floyd. He said he had seen the video and has wondered why the other officers didn’t intervene.

    Prosecutor Steve Schleicher questioned one of the juror's statements made during questioning by the defense. The man had said he didn’t think anyone had the intent to cause Floyd’s death.

    Schleicher said Chauvin’s intentions will be contested during the trial and asked him if he’d have a problem setting aside his opinion.

    “I don’t think it would be that difficult at all,” he said. “I think I can definitely look at it with an objective point of view.”

    No. 55: White woman, 50s
    She said she works in health care as an executive assistant.

    The juror said she couldn’t watch the full video because she found it too disturbing.

    She also said in her questionnaire she has a somewhat negative opinion of Chauvin but that he’s innocent until proven otherwise.

    She said she has a somewhat unfavorable opinion of Black Lives Matter, acknowledging that she perceives it to possibly mean that other lives don’t matter. She wrote on her questionnaire, “I believe all lives matter,” according to notes from the pool reporter.

    No. 79: Black man, 40s
    He said he works in management capacity, and that he has not formed an opinion about who is responsible for Floyd’s death.

    In his questionnaire, he said he had a neutral opinion of Chauvin and a “somewhat positive” impression of Floyd.

    He said he strongly disagreed with defunding police, noting that his house was burglarized once and he had to call the police. The man said he immigrated to the United States.

    No. 85: Multi/mixed race woman, 40s
    She said she works in organizational management.

    In responses to the court, she said was always taught to respect police but added that she wouldn't have trouble second-guessing their decisions if needed.

    “Police officers are human,” she said. “They’re not robots that are programmed to all behave in the exact same way. So I feel like as humans, they can make mistakes as well.”

    No. 89: White woman, 50s
    She said she’s a cardiac care nurse who lives in the suburbs.

    She was questioned in depth about her medical training and whether she would second-guess police on resuscitation efforts. She was also asked whether she would reference her nursing experience during deliberations. She said she could avoid it, and would not act as an expert during deliberations.

    “I think I can be impartial and listen to instructions and go with what I’m given and ignore the outside stuff,” she said.

    No. 91: Black woman, 60s
    She said she’s retired from a job in marketing, and that she has a degree in psychology. She volunteers with underserved youth. She grew up in south Minneapolis near where Floyd died.

    She said she watched a few minutes of the bystander video of Floyd’s arrest before shutting it off.

    She has a relative who is a Minneapolis police officer but they are not close.

    She said she believes Blacks and whites do not receive equal treatment, noting that a white U.S. Capitol riot suspect was allowed to go on vacation in Mexico after she was charged.

    She said she doesn’t follow the news closely and does not know enough yet to judge the case one way or another.

    No. 92: White woman, 40s
    She said she works in communications, and has been with the same company for 15 years.

    She disagrees with defunding the police but believes change is needed based on what she's seen in media coverage of racism.

    She noted somewhat negative views of both Chauvin and Floyd, that she didn’t believe Floyd deserved to die, and that police used excessive force. But she also noted she didn’t think Floyd was innocent either, according to notes from a pool reporter.

    She said she understands there are reasons people struggle with addiction.

    Alternates
    No. 96: White woman, 50s
    She described herself as an animal lover who is passionate about advocacy for affordable housing and homelessness. She told the court said she recently resigned from her customer service-related job. The juror noted she feels like she is good at de-escalating conflicts and getting both sides to come together for a resolution.

    She said she had seen video clips of the bystander video a few times and is also aware of the $27 million settlement.

    In her questionnaire, she wrote that the restraint used on Floyd was “ultimately responsible” for his death, but under questioning she acknowledged that was her assumption based on what she had seen. She acknowledged the video may not show the entirety of what happened.

    She was identified as an alternate on April 19, following closing statements.

    No. 118: White woman, 20s
    The juror is a social worker who has relatives who are nurses.

    In her line of work, she's had to call the police to remove unruly people. When asked by the prosecution if she's ever seen someone not comply with the police, she said she has not. Schleicher, the prosecutor, wondered if she would blame a person who doesn't comply with police for injuries resulting from a police encounter. She said everyone needs to be treated with respect even if they are suspected of a crime.

    She disagrees with defunding police, but under questioning about police reform said that “there are good things and things that should be changed.”

    The juror said she’s discussed the case with family members, including one who said they thought Chauvin should not have kept his knee on Floyd's neck for that long.

    She said her decision regarding a verdict would not affect her relationship with family and she wouldn't feel the need to justify it. She said she's curious to hear more about police training that may have influenced how the encounter unfolded.

    She was identified as an alternate on April 19, following closing statements.

    No. 131: White man, 20s
    He described himself as an accountant and a sports fan. When asked by Schleicher about his opinion on athletes who “take a knee” during the national anthem, the man said, “I would prefer if someone would express their beliefs in a different manner. But I understand what they are trying to do and raise the dialogue on certain issues.”

    The man said that after watching the bystander video from May 25, 2020, he felt like Chauvin’s use of force lasted too long.

    He said he generally believes racial minorities are treated unfairly by the criminal justice system.

    He strongly disagrees with the notion of defunding the Minneapolis Police Department. “I believe the force is a necessary and integral part of our society,” he said.

    The man was dismissed just before opening statements began, because none of the other jurors dropped out.

    https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/0...-chauvin-trial

    Based on that make up, and what I said, I am 40% convinced it will be a mistrial, however I am more convinced it will be Guilty. I would say there is a 0% change of Not Guilty.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  15. #18655
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Based on that make up, and what I said, I am 40% convinced it will be a mistrial, however I am more convinced it will be Guilty. I would say there is a 0% change of Not Guilty.
    A mistrial isn't a verdict, a verdict means there's consensus, there's no consensus in a mistrial.

  16. #18656
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    A mistrial isn't a verdict, a verdict means there's consensus, there's no consensus in a mistrial.
    And this was a pretty quick verdict.

  17. #18657
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Yeah, but if much debate were being had they just got this, wouldn't it make sense they would exhaust the arguments and review the evidence just in case. All the cases I've ever witness similar have and do.

    Here is a heads up though.

    Based on that make up, and what I said, I am 40% convinced it will be a mistrial, however I am more convinced it will be Guilty. I would say there is a 0% change of Not Guilty.
    The Jury couldn't reach a "mistrial" though. Only the Judge could. And if that were happening the news would know it wouldn't be a verdict. I hear what you're saying, but because so little time has passed in deliberations, the jury has reached either guilty or not guilty. Anything else would have been communicated to the judge, and then the press.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    And this was a pretty quick verdict.
    Exactly. Should be very interesting to hear it.

    My money is on Manslaughter.

  18. #18658
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The Jury couldn't reach a "mistrial" though. Only the Judge could. And if that were happening the news would know it wouldn't be a verdict. I hear what you're saying, but because so little time has passed in deliberations, the jury has reached either guilty or not guilty. Anything else would have been communicated to the judge, and then the press.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Exactly. Should be very interesting to hear it.

    My money is on Manslaughter.
    Gotcha, thanks for clearing that up i meant hung jury but I understand what you mean, Yeah it's going to be guilty. Hmm Manslaughter, can he be guilty on all counts?

    I'd wager a Starbucks it's 3rd Degree. The reason I say that is there was something I read about him pleading to 3rd Degree and the AG Barr taking that off the table.

    I think if he find guilty on 3rd degree that could be viewed as a way of pleasing everyone.


    Personally I wand 2nd Degree.
    Last edited by Doctor Amadeus; 2021-04-20 at 08:45 PM.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  19. #18659
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Exactly. Should be very interesting to hear it.

    My money is on Manslaughter.
    They're three separate charges; the jury rules on each separately, they aren't picking between them.

    I'm expecting guilty on two counts, won't be shocked if it's guilty on three (if anything, the prosecution aimed low here). I'll be a little surprised if it's only guilty on one, the weakest charge, the negligent manslaughter.

    Because presenting what happened as just a "oops, I didn't realize what I was doing!" is pretty damned galling.

  20. #18660
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    They're three separate charges; the jury rules on each separately, they aren't picking between them.

    I'm expecting guilty on two counts, won't be shocked if it's guilty on three (if anything, the prosecution aimed low here). I'll be a little surprised if it's only guilty on one, the weakest charge, the negligent manslaughter.

    Because presenting what happened as just a "oops, I didn't realize what I was doing!" is pretty damned galling.
    Yeah, it’s galling. It’s also not entirely inconsistent with the history of these kinds of cases.

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